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‘Secession is a deeply American principle’


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#16    Hasina

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:20 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 20 November 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:



Well you are free to think whatever you want. Personaly I judge people based on what they have done. And for over 30 years he has voted on the side of liberty without fail. He is the only guy in government whos actions fall directly in line with what he's said.

How can you not see what makes this election cycle special? We have fallen over every cliff. Freedom stripping legislation is now just the norm. And we are about to fall off a economic cliff thats going to make the depression look like a good timke. And no one in power seems to have the slightest clue what to do.
Bush stripped away rights with the Patriot Act. This fiscal cliff nonsense could easily be solved if both parties weren't so die hard set on 'compromising' which is just political talk for 'agree with the majority of what we say and we'll toss you a bone.' These problems have been developing for years. If I were building a LEGO castle and I messed up, would I just give up and walk away or would I go back, step by step to try and fix it? Secession is the first solution, what Paul's been doing for years is the second. I have nothing against Paul and really quite like his positions on many issues. But, personally, I don't trust anyone who's whole career is based around how many votes he has.

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#17    preacherman76

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostHasina, on 20 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Bush stripped away rights with the Patriot Act. This fiscal cliff nonsense could easily be solved if both parties weren't so die hard set on 'compromising' which is just political talk for 'agree with the majority of what we say and we'll toss you a bone.' These problems have been developing for years. If I were building a LEGO castle and I messed up, would I just give up and walk away or would I go back, step by step to try and fix it? Secession is the first solution, what Paul's been doing for years is the second. I have nothing against Paul and really quite like his positions on many issues. But, personally, I don't trust anyone who's whole career is based around how many votes he has.
Yes Bush certainly paved the way for the monsterous government we see today. My eyes became open to where this governmnet wants to take us under Bush. Back when the tea party was grass roots (the first 2 weeks) that happened under Bush. As a congress person, your voting record is all you have. All im saying is, he hasnt given anyone reason to not trust him. The same certainly cant be said for anyone else who ran or tried to run in this last election.

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#18    Legaia

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

View PostHasina, on 20 November 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Bush stripped away rights with the Patriot Act. This fiscal cliff nonsense could easily be solved if both parties weren't so die hard set on 'compromising' which is just political talk for 'agree with the majority of what we say and we'll toss you a bone.' These problems have been developing for years. If I were building a LEGO castle and I messed up, would I just give up and walk away or would I go back, step by step to try and fix it? Secession is the first solution, what Paul's been doing for years is the second. I have nothing against Paul and really quite like his positions on many issues. But, personally, I don't trust anyone who's whole career is based around how many votes he has.

I usually agree with what you post, but you're not making much sense here. I'm not sure what you're suggesting the people are left to do besides revolutionize. Whenever an outside, pro-people person gains support, he is ignored, slandered, and stripped immediately. Paul's career has been based on how many votes he's had? Any honest person, regardless of dem or repub, can agree that this man has been a rare force for good in government for the better part of three decades. There is nothing not to trust with him - just look at his record.

Edited by Legaia, 20 November 2012 - 01:53 PM.


#19    Hasina

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

I'll address both posts that have quoted me.

The problem here, to me, is that people put too much faith in these people, in their record, in what they say. Though what I've said about Paul seems to skip from 'like' to 'dislike' it by no means has set a precident for my views on him. My view, he's a good man and I do like his idea. There's the thing, he's a good man, but I like his ideas. This is probably one reason we have political parties, so the ideas and positions of these people can survive them after death.

The point really I'm trying to make is that so many people always seem to think 'the Repubs/Dems are gonna ruin us' or 'Obama/Romney/Paul will help see us through this mess or fix it'. Sure, they might or they might not. Instead of hearing 'Paul takes this position' what I wish I could hear more of is 'here's the position and these are the people who like it or dislike it'. Politics has become a name and face game, it's not about the issues, it's about the people running these issues and advocating for or against them. It's a giant reality show, we vote on the canadite and the party but not the issues. That's the same thing I see with Paul, people vote for him because 'Paul has good ideas' not 'the ideas Paul follows and supports are good ones'.

But that's just my two cents and it's mostly semantics involved.

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#20    Jessica Christ

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:13 PM

The truth is Hasina is a Ron Paul supporter but is just playing devil's advocate.


#21    preacherman76

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:39 PM

Im a Ron Paul supporter cause he has spoken on, and taken action in accordance with my beliefs, and in over 30 years has never stepped off that line to appease anyone. To see his name next to 0bama or Ronmey just makes me sick.

I never vote according to how any party feels I should vote. Nor do I play the "well your guy did the same thing so it should be ok" game. None of them are my guy, and neither party represents my beliefs. I stand behind Paul, cause he doesnt either.

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#22    Hasina

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:43 PM

View PostChasingtherabbit, on 20 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

The truth is Hasina is a Ron Paul supporter but is just playing devil's advocate.
Pretty close. I'm a supporter of many of his ideas.
The point of my many ranting posts is that politicians represent the ideas, issues, and positions of the people who elected them, which they've shown their support for by talking about them, supporting them, coming up with the ideas, etc. If an idea is good enough, it shouldn't need 'party backing' or some guys name attached to it to make it good. Something's good because it works.

How does this play into secession? Two reasons for me. If you're a politician in America, you work for the American government and for the American people; how can you advocate secession when you are part of that system? It would be like if I wanted to start my own accounting company but I can only do that by getting a job at a company then pulling away from the company and taking their assets. Civilians can do this, why? Because all they do is pay the government to work for them, if that government doesn't do what they need, why keep paying them? It's like if I worked as a tax consultant by was terrible at it, I'd get fired and they'd find someone else.

Second, secession doesn't seem like a solution to fix the problem, it's just a 'give up and run' solution. It works sometimes 'British independence' and other times it's just plain idiotic 'the American Civil War'. So why all this talk of secession [/i]now[/I]? Because it's a buzz word, the media's been talking about it, gets you back in the headlines, and it's a fun word to say and not a lot of people spell it correctly on their first try (guess how many times I've had to backspace to fix it).

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#23    preacherman76

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

He's advocationg secession cause this government doesnt work for the American people at all. They have rigged the game to the point that if you do inteend to work for the people, you wont be elected. At this point secession is the only way to restore the  constitution

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#24    Legaia

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

View PostHasina, on 20 November 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

...
But that's just my two cents and it's mostly semantics involved.

Very much so.


#25    Hasina

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:53 PM

View PostLegaia, on 20 November 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:



Very much so.
Even so, as I've argued when I play Yu-Gi-Oh, semantics is everything.

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#26    Jessica Christ

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 20 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

He's advocationg secession cause this government doesnt work for the American people at all. They have rigged the game to the point that if you do inteend to work for the people, you wont be elected. At this point secession is the only way to restore the  constitution

Please not all Americans feel like that.

Try more like roughly half. We are divided. That does not mean break apart but learn how to work together again.

Cooperation with those you disagree with is better than destroying, eliminating, banishing, or having nothing to do with them. Secession is the path of hate, the path of Cain.


#27    Drayno

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:43 PM

The only way secession would work is if states seceded - not to form their own country, but to restore our Republic. Ron Paul advocates peaceful secession to redress our Congress - you know, the one with the lowest approval rating in US history. He advocates it to remind the Federal government that the states created it, and the people thus by extension created the states - thus that the people are above the Federal government, and that our current course of Federalism is not beneficial to a free and just society of self-governing, dignified people. We need to remind our Federal government that we do have the unalienable right to redress it - and if it does not allow us to do that, then we truly are not in a free society any more. I don't advocate another civil war, but I do advocate this.

Edited by Drayno, 20 November 2012 - 06:43 PM.

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#28    questionmark

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

View PostDrayno, on 20 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

The only way secession would work is if states seceded - not to form their own country, but to restore our Republic. Ron Paul advocates peaceful secession to redress our Congress - you know, the one with the lowest approval rating in US history. He advocates it to remind the Federal government that the states created it, and the people thus by extension created the states - thus that the people are above the Federal government, and that our current course of Federalism is not beneficial to a free and just society of self-governing, dignified people. We need to remind our Federal government that we do have the unalienable right to redress it - and if it does not allow us to do that, then we truly are not in a free society any more. I don't advocate another civil war, but I do advocate this.

As long as over 60% of the people are convinced that their congressperson is doing a good job there is nothing you can do about redressing Congress.

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#29    keithisco

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

By all means allow the various states to secede... what do you think you will gain from that?? You will have the same 2 parties vying for votes - Reps and Dems - you will have zero voice in the world - Texas decides not to trade with the Pinko European Union (the European Union will just fall about with laughter) - Moody's, Fitch, etc will all downgrade your Credit to JUNK - the other Union States will raise Tariffs against trading with you - all Federal Govt funded ventures ("Houston calling") will be removed, along with Fed Defense.

Think carefully about what you wish for - it might just come true!!!


#30    questionmark

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:03 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 20 November 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

By all means allow the various states to secede... what do you think you will gain from that?? You will have the same 2 parties vying for votes - Reps and Dems - you will have zero voice in the world - Texas decides not to trade with the Pinko European Union (the European Union will just fall about with laughter) - Moody's, Fitch, etc will all downgrade your Credit to JUNK - the other Union States will raise Tariffs against trading with you - all Federal Govt funded ventures ("Houston calling") will be removed, along with Fed Defense.

Think carefully about what you wish for - it might just come true!!!

Or how the ancient Greeks used to say: The Gods grant the wishes of those who they want to play with.

Edited by questionmark, 20 November 2012 - 07:03 PM.

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