prove me wrong

[MoonBaby]

there's so much knowledge out there that i'm starting to think when we die we just rot and nothing else happens after death. prove me right or wrong please, because i just want something to believe in whether it's that i just cease to exist (although that is not what i would prefer) or that we do have souls or spirits or something besides these stupid bodies. please don't preach a lot either cuz i was raised in a christian home so i know all that crap. thanks for any input.

Edited May 20, 2004 by MoonBaby

[The Raven]

Nooo problem! You can beleive what you want, nothing like this is universally right or wrong no matter how good or bad, you will have to choose what is right and wrong by yourself, we cannot make that choice for you..

I am confused by your question...do you want to hear some beleifes people have? I know some if you want to hear.

[Universal Absurdity]

Itis my opinion that there is energy, in your body, that could be called your soul, chi, or ki, depending on where in the world that you are. . and if einstein is correct, energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change form. So some part of you does go on after you die. Whether or not your energy is conscious is up to you to figure out

I do not , however believe that memory can be retained and recalled by chemicals, hormones, tissue, and small amounts of electricity in the brain. There is something else in there that is who we are, our soul , personality, ego ...etc...

And since no such thing has actually been located by science. I think it to be a form of energy that is conscious and does go on after death.

I hope my opinion has helped.

[MoonBaby]

somebody better talk to me or i'll cry

[PsychicPenguin]

Mind over matter, mind over everything!

If you believe in heaven, then you're going to heaven (whatever your ideal heaven is)

If you believe in reincarnation, you will be reincarnated.

If you believe in no afterlife, that's it, you're done.

Everybody happy?

[Mentalcase]

prove me right or wrong please

If there was sufficient proof, it would be documented. So basically, this question is rhetoric.

[The Raven]

Psychic Penguin

Hmm..

Christians, And Jews beleive that if you Sin, you go to hell, if you are a good little girl or boy, you go to heaven!

If you are a Viking, you better be an honorable warrior to travel to Valhalla!

You could beleive that you are reincarnated again and again until you reach Nirvana --- (End of reincarnation 'rebirth', peace, ETC)

Im not sure about Buddhists, but I know they have ways of controlling their anger and such..

You could want to sin and join the devil or evil in a dark place or hell, there are some advantages; it's never cold.

Umm...let me think...You could be Satanic (No they do not worship Satan) and share their beleifes.

You could take the scientific way out...

You could create your own religion and go by crazy beleifs.

You could share death beleifs of New-Agers

I can't think of any more...it's late...But I can tell you what I beleive...sort-of...

I kind of beleive in the reincarnation theory, but in a slightly different manner. There have been others discussed here, I remember one about how this is just one plain, and as you die and get higher you can become godly, giving us lower plain people gods, and you can go lower then this and go to hell.

[Lady Sabrina]

If there was sufficient proof, it would be documented. So basically, this question is rhetoric. 

I agree & think proof of what you believe mostly comes from your own experiences in life. It's not the type of thing someone can lay on a table & say here it is.

[Laudicus]

I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife. After all, life as we know it is merely a collection of molecules, formed into cells. Our bodies are composed of billions upon billions of little simple cells. I think that when we die, we are simply food for another form of life, just like any other lifeless matter like rocks are food for lichen. As for energy not being converted and moved: as all things rot their energy turns to thermal energy. Compost is a good example: it gets warm inside a composter when all is rotting. Also, the maggots that eat us ( ) gain the remaining energy from us.

Aw, well... That's just me. Regardless of what happens after we die, I just want to make the most of my life while I still have it.

[MoonBaby]

Yep it is a retoric question, that's my problem. I guess what my problem is, is I grew up in a home where the Bible and Christianity were the only things taught, so I was ignorant to any other religions. Now I'm married, in college and getting exposure to the real world and it's way overwhelming because...well because I was so sheltered, but never really bought in to Christianity. All this really got bad a few months ago when I was in a really bad car wreck, almost died, was in a coma for a while yadda, yadda. It's like, as I healed from the head injury I became a different person; more aware of the world, univers, me, everything and less concerned with triviality. In six months I've been through a lot of different stages. I went through a there is a god stage, a there isn't a god stage, a wiccan stage and a couple of others but I forgot. Now I'm going through this scientific stage and I'm learning crap about the physical realm, and the physical realm scares me. Because what if this universe was just formed because of antimatter crap and were just a fluke. Because it is very possible that we just came along with the evolutinary process especially when you consider how big theuniverse that we can see is (and that's not mentioning what we can't see yet). That red shift thing scares the crap out of me because what if that's where the universe exploded or whatever from. It's like, I never knew about all of this stuff before and now that I do I'm scared that humans have simply made up a god and a soul in their heads to make themselves feel better about being alive and it's something to make this life seem better. And I don't want to think that but that's where the evidence I have is leaning, and I guess what I want is evidence that points in the other direction. And I want hard evidence on top of personal experiences, but more hard (scientific) evidence because I've heard lots of personal experiences. Any more clarification on what I'm looking for? Because I don't think I'm really sure. I just want to learn all I can (that's my new hobby) and come to my own conclusions because I've never done that before.

[MoonBaby]

I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife.

Laudicus, does believing that bother you? I mean, cuz if there's no point to this, then why stay? If there's not a point, you don't do it right? What's the point of playing a board game? To prove some kind of supremacy. What's the point of having a job? To make money. What's the point of buying a new surround sound system? To filfill a desire. There is a point to everthing we do or else we don't do it. So if we have no purpose, we have no point, therefore why are you still here? Think about this. Why are you on your computer in a discussion forum on souls? What's the point?

[Kismit]

I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife. After all, life as we know it is merely a collection of molecules, formed into cells. Our bodies are composed of billions upon billions of little simple cells. I think that when we die, we are simply food for another form of life, just like any other lifeless matter like rocks are food for lichen. As for energy not being converted and moved: as all things rot their energy turns to thermal energy. Compost is a good example: it gets warm inside a composter when all is rotting. Also, the maggots that eat us ( ) gain the remaining energy from us.

Aw, well... That's just me. Regardless of what happens after we die, I just want to make the most of my life while I still have it.

If the only purpose in life is to feed the worms , then at least it has some purpose .

[MoonBaby]

Also, have you ever pulled out money from your pocket and put it in a salvation army's chritmas pot/ Why did you do that? Have you ever felt empathy for someone else for a bad situation they are/were in? Why did you feel that? Have you ever felt bad for the way that you treated someone? Why did you feel that way? If there's no point of having some organ, our bodies tend to slowly get rid of it over the course of evolution. So why have emotions been evident for a very long time if there is no purpose for them? On that note, why would we have devoloped them at all if there was no point to them?

[MoonBaby]

If the only purpose in life is to feed the worms , then at least it has some purpose .

See, I wish I could be ok with this life being just that, but I can't. I've tried. A lot. Doesn't work. In fact, it's really annoying to me that I can't be just freakin normal and not worry about that. Those are pretty fun.

[Venomshocker]

Moonbaby heres some things to think about.

Over 40% of scientists in the US believe in a God, and therefore purpose.

Evoloution has not been proven scientifically. Because theres no proof of speciation.

If certain physists are correct about the speed of light the universe may be only about 8000-10000 years old, and therefore evoloution would be impsossible and there would have to be a creator.

And the human body is not just cells and chemicals, there is also energy, of some kind.

Learning is what life is all about. If we didnt have to learn, life would be boring. Figuring out whether there is a God or not gives us purpose, and therefore also meaning.Since you want to learn as much as you can, Ill leave these two links with you. They've helped me define what I believe in, mayby they can help you too.

http://nujournal.net/choice.html

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/index.html

[trublvr]

Moonbaby,

Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian. You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront. Clearly, you are dealing with issues of meaning and purpose, and you are entirely correct in your observations concerning our tendency to be compassionate, loving, and sacrificial. Surely a purely meaningless universe could not and would not produce creatures who ponder meaning! And sacrificial love like the kind we feel towards each other runs counter to survival of the fittest and self-preservation. Honestly, though, the meaning you are searching for had better be more than just a matter of proof and rhetoric! Proof is great, and it has its uses. Ultimately, though, proof is a non-relational way of knowing. We have to prove things because we cannot relate to them. This works well in science, but it sucks for stuff like, "Do I have objective worth as a human being?" Rhetoric may sound wonderful, but if it doesn't guide us into reality, then it is only wonderful words and theories strung together. Instead of being captivated by the truth the rhetoric points to, we are simply being captivated by the way it sounds or by how novel it is. For fear of offending you, I'll shut up now. Peace to you and your household, man. Take care. --trublvr

[PrettyAndCorrupt]

Prove to me you are right

[Nordic_Dragon]

I believe that humans have no purpose, and no afterlife..

thats the saddest thing ive ever read...

[The Raven]

Moonbaby,

Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian. You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront. Clearly, you are dealing with issues of meaning and purpose, and you are entirely correct in your observations concerning our tendency to be compassionate, loving, and sacrificial. Surely a purely meaningless universe could not and would not produce creatures who ponder meaning! And sacrificial love like the kind we feel towards each other runs counter to survival of the fittest and self-preservation. Honestly, though, the meaning you are searching for had better be more than just a matter of proof and rhetoric! Proof is great, and it has its uses. Ultimately, though, proof is a non-relational way of knowing. We have to prove things because we cannot relate to them. This works well in science, but it sucks for stuff like, "Do I have objective worth as a human being?" Rhetoric may sound wonderful, but if it doesn't guide us into reality, then it is only wonderful words and theories strung together. Instead of being captivated by the truth the rhetoric points to, we are simply being captivated by the way it sounds or by how novel it is. For fear of offending you, I'll shut up now. Peace to you and your household, man. Take care. --trublvr

That is the most positive and touching thing I have heard in a month

Just to let you into some super, top-secret, ground breaking information; Science can't solve everything, who knows if it has solved anything. Sure science is great, but you can't expect them to be right some of the time, take the solar system for example. How do they know for SURE there is an Ocean in lower Uranus? They don't, it's just educated speculation and who knows, Uranus could be a huge over-populated and chaotic world like our own, with people like our own, wondering the same things about life and purpose. No matter how hard science tries to scientifically explain Miracles, Religion, Etc, some thing just can't be explained and better left a mystery and something good to beleive in. No, I am not saying any of this is true or if Im a crock, you believe what you feel is right, and that will become right.

[The Proposer]

there's so much knowledge out there that i'm starting to think when we die we just rot and nothing else happens after death. prove me right or wrong please, because i just want something to believe in whether it's that i just cease to exist (although that is not what i would prefer) or that we do have souls or spirits or something besides these stupid bodies. please don't preach a lot either cuz i was raised in a christian home so i know all that crap. thanks for any input.

prove yourself wrong by a very simple process of visiting your local spiritualist church,its highly likely that if you visit a few times that someone from the other side (who you have known) will want to contact you,these churches usually rely on donations and also have one to one sittings.

[MoonBaby]

Look, I'm gonna let you know up front: I'm a Christian. You seem pretty jaded with Christianity, and you don't want to be preached at, so I wanted to be upfront

That's totally cool. I like honest people and there's not enough of them these days. I think I might have came across the wrong way though. I have no problem with Chrisianity whatsoever, I just don't buy into it. It works for some people and not others, and I'm just one of those others. I am interested in hearing peoples stories of why they chose a faith, that's very intriguing to me.

Prove to me you are right 

If I could do that I wouldn't be hete

Evoloution has not been proven scientifically. Because theres no proof of speciation.

If certain physists are correct about the speed of light the universe may be only about 8000-10000 years old, and therefore evoloution would be impsossible and there would have to be a creator.

Could you tell me what speciation is please? I've heard the word before but never knew what it meant. Also, what's this stuff about the speed of light? That's pretty interesting.

prove yourself wrong by a very simple process of visiting your local spiritualist church,its highly likely that if you visit a few times that someone from the other side (who you have known) will want to contact you,these churches usually rely on donations and also have one to one sittings.

Can you find those in backwoods Texas towns? And I really don't know anyone from the other side. The only person that I knew that died is my husbands grandma. Very sweet lady.

Thank you everyone that's writing crap in here, I feel better already just reading that all of you have something (or nothing) to believe in. Keep it coming.

[MoonBaby]

By the way, thanks venomshocker for the links. I'll be lookin' over those.

[Venomshocker]

Speciation, is the fundamental basis of the theory of evoloution. Speciation means, one animal morphing into another. Sorta like a cat giving birth to a dog, except in a long drawn out process. Speciation is when an animal(species) changes on a genetic level so much, that it cant breed with its own ancestor from where it came, hence forming a new animal(species), hence the word speciation. This is a core belief of evoloution, and it supports the idea, that we humans could have 'evolved' here by pure chance.Or fluke as u might say.

The thing is speciation, in the animal kingdom has never been proven scientifically, so there is no good proof that we are here by chance. In fact if speciation is not true, we were designed by a creator. Now that creator could be a God, or Gods, or even aliens. Theoretically. But nontheless we as humans were created, and therefore must have purpose.

The thing about the speed of light changing is a lil more complicated, read about it here.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=14210

I would also like to add, that I do believe in a God, and its because of what I have observed about the world from a scientific perspective. I believe there is plenty of evidence for design. But I also understand where you have a problem with christianity as a whole. Belief in a God, I believe is a completely personal experience, and shouldnt be related too a single denomonation of some kind. I hate being preached at. Its good to find a church where the pastor just presents ideas to think about instead of telling you what you should or shouldnt do. Read as much as you can, most christians view the bible as an absolutely perfect book with no mistakes. I disagree, it was written by imperfect people. Although it can be a pretty good guide, I would encourage you too find out more about how the bible was put together, and what was left in and what was left out and why.And always question where things came from. Knowledge is the key to wisdom.I hope this helps.

Ignorance is the mother of all evil. -Gospel of Thomas

[MoonBaby]

I went to that nujournal link and it was very...enlightening. Thank you very much for that. I especially liked the expirement done by the college students. I can see how that helped you, or whatever because it does prove how ignorant we humans are. We think that because something might be true, it probably is when we in reality have no idea. Tommy Lee Jones said it best in Men in Black. Something along the lines of "A thousand years ago

everybody knew as a fact, that the earth

was the center of the universe. Five

hundred years ago, they knew it was flat.

Fifteen minutes ago, you knew we humans

were alone on it. Imagine what you'll know

tomorrow."

No, but really, that journal article seriosly spoke to me. I'm not trying to sound corny (I know I do I do) but it did.

Keep it comin'.

[Venomshocker]

Yea, that nujournal link is quite something, especially the part about;Can you Imagine designing the universe? It gave me a completely different perspective on life.

Ive always viewed science as some eternal truth that is just so sound, that it can figure everything out. But the real truth is quite the opposite. Science is one of the fastest changing things in the universe. There are paradigm shifts in science almost every century. Who knows what well figure out next is a good question. But hell, I wanna be one of the first to know. Figuring out stuff is fun!!! Not learning something new every day is boring. I cant even comprehend it I wish you good luck figuring things out. You live and learn, and learn some more.

Edited April 10, 2004 by Venomshocker