480 replies to this topic

[skyeagle409]

Left-Field, on 29 November 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

There have been numerous reports of Osama bin Laden's death prior to 2011. If I recall correctly, I think George W. Bush even floated the notion out there at one point that he thought bin Laden may be dead even while the "search" for him was still taking place - or at least being sold to the general public.

I found the following video interesting as well. And it seems entirely plausible to me:

There is also information available which indicates Osama bin Laden was involved with the CIA at some point in time (mid-1980s).

Read post # 141 and # 147 to understand why it wasn't plausible at all.

Quote

'Bin Laden' tape: Obama can't stop war

September 14, 2009

(CNN) -- An audio message purportedly from al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has accused President Barack Obama of being unable to fulfil his election pledge to pull U.S. troops out of Iraq.

On what date was Barack Obama first elected to the presidency of the United States?

Quote

Bin Laden’s daughter confirms her father shot dead by US Special Forces in Pakistan

Senior Pakistani security officials said Osama bin Laden’s daughter had confirmed her father was captured alive and shot dead by the US Special Forces during the first few minutes of the operation carried out at the huge compound in Bilal Town, Abbottabad. 



Besides recovering four bullet-riddled bodies from the compound, Pakistani security agencies also arrested two women and six children, aged between 2 and 12 years, after American forces flew toward Afghanistan. Some reports suggest 16 people, including women and children, were arrested from the house, most of them Arab nationals.

A Pakistani security source told Al Arabiya that Bin Laden family members had been transported to Rawalpindi, which is near Islamabad. He added, “They are now under treatment in the military hospital of Rawalpindi, where they have been transported in an helicopter.” A source told Al Arabiya that Bin Laden’s wife had been injured either in her leg or her shoulder.

http://english.alara.../04/147782.html

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Text: Al Qaeda statement confirming bin Laden's death

(Reuters) - Following is an abridged version of the text of the statement issued by Al Qaeda on the death of Osama bin Laden. The translation from Arabic is by Reuters.

"Congratulations to the Islamic nation on the martyrdom of its good son Osama after a life full of effort and work, determination and patience, incitement and holy struggle, generosity and giving, emigration and travel, advice and good preparation, wisdom and experience...

"That the Americans were able to kill Osama is not shameful to us. Where else do men and heroes die except on the battlefield? Every end is predestined. But can the Americans with their media, agents, machinery, soldiers, intelligence and equipment kill what Sheikh Osama lived and fought for? Never, never. Sheikh Osama did not build an organization that will die with his death and leave with his departure..."


http://www.reuters.c...E74563U20110506

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Al Qaeda, in Web message, confirms bin Laden's death


(CNN) -- Al Qaeda released a statement on jihadist forums Friday confirming the death of its leader, Osama bin Laden, according to SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors Islamist websites.
The development comes days after U.S. troops killed bin Laden in a raid on a compound in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad.

The statement, translated by SITE, lauded the late militant, threatened to take action against the United States, and urged Pakistanis to "rise up and revolt." Bin Laden's death will serve as a "curse that chases the Americans and their agents, and goes after them inside and outside their countries," the message said.

http://www.cnn.com/2...ment/index.html

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Secret, stealth chopper in compound wreckage?
Photos of Black Hawk blown up at bin Laden's compound reveal modifications

WASHINGTON — Images of the wreckage of the helicopter left behind at Osama bin Laden's compound by U.S. forces have prompted speculation that the chopper is a secret, highly-modified version of the military's iconic Black Hawk.

The stricken aircraft, which commandos blew up at the scene, appears to be a long-rumored stealth helicopter, NBC News reported; a Black Hawk modified to reduce rotor noise and make it more difficult to detect by radar.

http://www.msnbc.msn...pound-wreckage/



http://defensetech.o...ight-look-like/

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And now, only one senior al Qaeda leader left

Washington (CNN) -- The news that Abu Yahya al-Libi, the No.2 leader of al Qaeda, is now confirmed to have been killed in a CIA drone strike in Pakistan's tribal region along the border with Afghanistan further underlines that the terrorist group that launched the 9/11 attacks is now more or less out of business. Under President Barack Obama, CIA drone strikes have killed 15 of the most important players in al Qaeda, according to a count maintained by the New America Foundation (a nonpartisan think tank where I am a director).

Similarly, President George W. Bush also authorized drone strikes that killed 16 important al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan while he was in office.  As a result, according to senior U.S. counterterrorism officials, there now remains only one leader of any consequence in al Qaeda and that is Ayman al-Zawahiri, the tetchy Egyptian surgeon who became the head of the group following the death of its founder, Osama bin Laden, in a U.S. Navy SEAL raid in Pakistan in May 2011.

http://www.cnn.com/2...left/index.html

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Little Fish]

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

"security officials said ..."

"A Pakistani security source told..."

"A source told Al Arabiya..."

"Sources speculated that..."

"officials said..."

"an official said...."

"Sources said..."

"said an official..."

"the Pakistani official said..."

"The official said..."

"According to sources..."

"Some Pakistani officials say ..."

"The officials say ..."

"many officials feel..."

"information Pakistani officials collected..."

"a well-informed official explained...."

"Security officials said ..."

"a senior official said...."

"Officials said ..."
they call that a propaganda trademark, meaning the story is total rubbish.
no evidence there at all.

[skyeagle409]

Little Fish, on 29 November 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

"security officials said ..."

"A Pakistani security source told..."

"A source told Al Arabiya..."

"Sources speculated that..."

"officials said..."

"an official said...."

"Sources said..."

"said an official..."

"the Pakistani official said..."

"The official said..."

"According to sources..."

"Some Pakistani officials say ..."

"The officials say ..."

"many officials feel..."

"information Pakistani officials collected..."

"a well-informed official explained...."

"Security officials said ..."

"a senior official said...."

"Officials said ..."
they call that a propaganda trademark, meaning the story is total rubbish.
no evidence there at all.

Not rubbish at all. The fact that bin Laden released a tape aimed at President Obama was a clue that Osama bin Laden was still alive and since a change in power occurred in June 2011,  underlined the fact that Osama bin Laden was alive in 2011 and dead before the end of that year.

Quote

Bin Laden Challenges Obama in New Audio Message

In a direct challenge to President-elect Barack Obama, Osama bin Laden questions whether America "is capable to keep fighting us for more years" in a new audio message attributed to him Wednesday morning on an internet website.

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Ayman Al-Zawahri

Ayman al-Zawahri, an Egyptian surgeon, was the longtime second-in-command in Al Qaeda to Osama bin Laden. In June 2011, six weeks after Bin Laden was killed by American forces, a statement posted online announced that Mr. Zawahiri was taking command of the international terrorist organization.

http://topics.nytime...ahri/index.html


Ayman al-Zawahiri appointed as al-Qaeda leader

The long-serving second-in-command of al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri, has been appointed its head following the death of Osama Bin Laden, the militant organisation said in a statement.
Bin Laden was killed by US forces in Pakistan in early May.

Al-Qaeda warned it would continue to fight a holy war against the US and Israel under Zawahiri's direction. A US official dismissed Zawahiri's appointment, saying he had "nowhere near" Bin Laden's credentials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-13788594

The fact that Osama bin Laden was in command of al-Qaeda at the beginning of 2011, and Ayman al-Zawahiri in command at the end of 2011, is a clear indication that a change of power in al-Qaeda occurred in 2011, which is the year that bin Laden was killed.

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 11:42 AM.

[through the fire]

pallidin, on 29 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Bin Laden was killed by members of the United States Navy Special Warfare Development Group(aka SEALS) in concert with covert CIA operatives, on May 2, 2011, in an operation
ordered by the President of the United States, Barack Obama.

His body was taken to a US Naval ship and
eventually buried at sea in a manner keeping with Islamic tradition.

That's the facts, so GET OVER ANYTHING
ELSE.

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between "facts" and stories.

Reminds me of the time I captured and killed Bigfoot. I gave him a sea burial afterwards. I've got pictures to prove it, I'm just not going to show you because it might upset other bigfoot and make them go on a mad terrorist rampage.

Those are the facts, right?

[skyeagle409]

through the fire, on 29 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between "facts" and stories.

Reminds me of the time I captured and killed Bigfoot. I gave him a sea burial afterwards. I've got pictures to prove it, I'm just not going to show you because it might upset other bigfoot and make them go on a mad terrorist rampage.

Those are the facts, right?

We know that a change of power occurred in al-Qaeda 6 weeks after bin Laden was killed, and we have al-Qaeda's own admission that bin Laden was killed by U.S. special forces. On what date did a change of power occur in al-Qaeda?

Quote

Bin Laden's No. 2 to Lead al Qaeda

June 17, 2011

Terror Group's New Chief, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Faces Challenges Rallying Followers in a Changed Muslim World

Al Qaeda has named a new leader, Ayman al Zawahiri, an Egyptian who managed the group during a period of deadly innovation but is said to lack the charisma of his predecessor, Osama bin Laden.

http://online.wsj.co...2374547604.html

Who was head of al-Qaeda on May 1, 2011?

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[hacktorp]

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Read post # 141, or:

Al Qaeda admits bin Laden's death online

CAIRO - Al Qaeda on Friday confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden and warned of retaliation, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness."

http://www.cbsnews.c...2-20060382.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ayman al-Zawahiri to head al-Qaida following Bin Laden's death

Bin Laden's deputy confirmed as new leader but experts question whether Zawahiri can unite al-Qaida's factions

http://www.guardian....awahri-al-qaida

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

'In Front of Her Eyes': Osama bin Laden's Teen Daughter Witnessed Death

A senior Pakistani security official told ABC News that Osama bin Laden's teen daughter saw her father killed "in front of her eyes," and admitted that Pakistani intelligence failed to catch America's most wanted man, even though he was hiding in plain sight.

In an hour-long exclusive interview with ABC News, the official said all of bin Laden's relatives who were captured are cooperating with intelligence. That includes his 13-year-old daughter, who witnessed his killing, bin Laden's youngest wife, who was injured while defending him, and about 6-7 other children.

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=13527830

These are simply some predigested ABC/CBS/AP media reports and do not constitute proof.  You've long debunked "eyewitness" testimony as being unreliable anyway.

Credit due for the extra-large and bolded font though...lol.

How about some actual proof?  Like time-stamped autopsy photos.  Got anything like that?

[CuriousGreek]

I didn't even believe the news, when they told us just recently, that he died. Why should i wonder about where he was supposedly buried? lol

[skyeagle409]

hacktorp, on 29 November 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

These are simply some predigested ABC/CBS/AP media reports and do not constitute proof.  You've long debunked "eyewitness" testimony as being unreliable anyway.

Credit due for the extra-large and bolded font though...lol.

How about some actual proof?  Like time-stamped autopsy photos.  Got anything like that?

It is very simple, and I will break it down.

*   Who was al-Qaeda leader on May 1, 20011?

Osama bin Laden


*   Who was al-Qaeda leader on June 20, 2011?

Ayman al-Zawahiri


*   Did al-Qaeda admit that U.S. special forces kill Osama bin Laden in May 2011?

Yes

Quote

Al Qaeda Vows Revenge For Osama Bin Laden's Death

Al-Qaeda confirmed the death on May 6 with posts made on militant websites, vowing to avenge the killing. Other Pakistani militant groups, including the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, also vowed retaliation against the U.S. and against Pakistan for not preventing the operation.

http://www.huffingto...h_n_858907.html

Al-Qaeda would never have handed the United States the victory flag over the killing of Osama bin Laden on the world stage if reports of his death were untrue.


*   Does that explain why there was a leadship change within al-Qaeda in June 2011?

Yes


*   What  happened to bin Laden's family in Pakistan after bin Laden was killed?

They were taken into custody by Pakistan

Quote

Osama Family Under Interrogation in Pakistan



One of Osama Bin Laden’s daughters watched as U.S. forces shot and killed her father Sunday, according to a senior Pakistani official.


The unidentified official told Reuters that the daughter, aged 12 or 13, is one of an unspecified number of people who have confirmed that the al-Qaida leader had been killed during the U.S. military raid on his secret compound in Pakistan

http://slatest.slate...fe_in_cust.html


Osama bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter watched as her father was shot dead by American special forces, a senior Pakistani intelligence official has told the Guardian.
The girl, who was found at the scene of the raid by Pakistani security services, is being cared for at a military hospital having been wounded in the attack. She has been questioned about the sequence of events during the raid on Sunday night.

http://www.guardian....n-daughter-held



ISLAMABAD:

The three wives and 11 children of slain al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden were sent on judicial remand until March 26 by a district court in Islamabad on Saturday.

Senior Civil Judge of the Islamabad district court Shah Rukh Arjumand gave the order for Bin laden’s family, who were arrested under the foreign act of Pakistan for illegally entering and living in Pakistan.

http://tribune.com.p...udicial-remand/

*   Did bin Laden release a tape challenging President Obama?  

Yes

Quote

New Bin Laden Tape Blasts Obama

A new audio tape from Osama bin Laden criticizes President Barack Obama for planting seeds of "hatred and vengeance toward Americans" and warns of "new long wars."

The tape, aired on Arabic news network al Jazeera Wednesday, blasts the U.S. president for his role in Pakistan's military operation against Taliban forces in the Swat Valley. The message came as Mr. Obama touched down in Saudi Arabia on the first leg of a Mideast trip to shore up diplomatic relations in the region.

U.S. intelligence officials confirmed the authenticity of tape but said "there's no reason at this point to believe that any specific or credible threat is contained" in the message, reports CBS News White House correspondent Peter Maer.

http://www.cbsnews.c...62-5058482.html

That meant that Osama bin Laden was still alive beyond the time period that conspiracist claimed when he died, and to underline that fact, Osama bin Laden was still leader of al-Qaeda up to May 2, 2011 and once again, a calling card was left at the scene by U.S. special forces.



So what we have, is an al-Qaeda admission that  bin Laden was killed by U.S. forces and a senior leadership change within al-Qaeda after its admission on the death of bin Laden at the hands of U.S. forces.

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[through the fire]

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

It is very simple, and I will break it down.

*   Who was al-Qaeda leader on May 1, 20011?





Osama bin Laden


*   Who was al-Qaeda leader on June 20, 2011?

Ayman al-Zawahiri


*   Did al-Qaeda admit that U.S. special forces kill Osama bin Laden in May 2011?

Yes



Al-Qaeda would never have handed the United
States the victory flag over the killing of Osama bin Laden on the world stage if reports of his death were untrue.


*   Does that explain why there was a leadship change within al-Qaeda in June 2011?

Yes[/color

*   What  happened to bin Laden's family in Pakistan after bin Laden was killed?

They were taken into custody by Pakistan




*   Did bin Laden release a tape challenging President Obama?  

Yes



[color=#000000]Once again, a calling card was


left at the scene by U.S. special forces.

Still no proof Bin Laden was actually killed in this raid.

But if you're willing to just accept things without evidence that's fine. Although I'm sure you'll be very selective in who you accept it from - only "authorities".

[Babe Ruth]

through the fire, on 29 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

You don't seem to be able to tell the difference between "facts" and stories.

Reminds me of the time I captured and killed Bigfoot. I gave him a sea burial afterwards. I've got pictures to prove it, I'm just not going to show you because it might upset other bigfoot and make them go on a mad terrorist rampage.

Those are the facts, right?

You can't show them because National Security is at stake!

[skyeagle409]

Babe Ruth, on 29 November 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

You can't show them because National Security is at stake!

Evidence, is the name of the game.

[skyeagle409]

through the fire, on 29 November 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Still no proof Bin Laden was actually killed in this raid.

On the contrary, al-Qaeda admitted that U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden and they would not have handed the United States the victory flag in that respect if the reports were untrue.

The leadership change within al-Qaeda didn't take place until June 2011, which was six weeks after the raid in May 2011 and those are very important clues that cannot be denied. In other words, Osama bin Laden was in the leadership role on May 2, 2011, but no longer occupied that position in June 2011, which clearly indicates that something happened to Osama bin Laden between the beginning of May 2011 and June 17, 2011, which is the date when the leadership change was made, and once again, brings us back to the admission from al-Qaeda that U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden in May 2011.

The crash of that stealth Black Hawk helicopter at the compound of Osama bin Laden in May adds credibility to the admission of al-Qaeda that bin Laden was killed by the United States.

Quote

But if you're willing to just accept things without evidence that's fine.

It is just a matter of placing the pieces of the puzzle in their proper place to form a picture of what occurred, when, and where.

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[through the fire]

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

On the contrary, al-Qaeda admitted that U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden and they would not have handed the United States the victory flag in that respect if the reports were untrue.



It is just a matter of placing the pieces of the puzzle in their proper place to form a picture of what occurred, when, and where.

How did "al-Qaeda" know he was killed and not captured?

I guess they just take people at their word too.

I agree it's about putting the evidence together.

[skyeagle409]

through the fire, on 29 November 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

How did "al-Qaeda" know he was killed and not captured?

Osama bin Laden was the leader of al-Qaeda who issued orders from a position of power, so it wouldn't have been difficult for al-Qaeda to ascertained what happened to its senior leader. I am very sure that if an army general was killed, it wouldn't take long for his troops get the news.

Edited by skyeagle409, 29 November 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[Left-Field]

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

Read post # 141 and # 147 to understand why it wasn't plausible at all.

I have read them. They prove nothing regarding your beliefs in the "official" story about bin Laden's death. I can link you to just as many, if not more, stories in which a number of different, relevant individuals speak about bin Laden having died well before 2011.

If we're going to use your logic here then that would "prove" that bin Laden did in fact die before 2011. And since those reports came out well before the "official" version regarding bin Laden's demise it would also "prove" that what you are willing to believe is clearly a lie.

As for the "bin Laden" tapes, there is plenty of reason to believe they aren't what they are portrayed as. Some of them, if not all of them, aren't bin Laden speaking. And since you are so keen on anything bin Laden's family has to say, one of bin Laden's own sons has voiced his doubts about the tapes actually being of his father.

skyeagle409, on 29 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

On what date was Barack Obama first elected to the presidency of the United States?

Obama was sworn in as President on January 20, 2009. He won the 2008 election on November 4 of that year.

What does any of that have to do with the death of Osama bin Laden?

Edited by Left-Field, 29 November 2012 - 09:05 PM.