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Nasa trains astronauts for asteroid mission

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:59 PM

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The first official British European Space Agency astronaut Tim Peake is being trained for a mission to land on an asteroid, it can be revealed.

It is a space mission straight from the Hollywood film Armageddon.

A team of astronauts are being trained to land on an asteroid to explore its surface, search for minerals and even learn the skills they may need to destroy it should one pose a threat to the Earth.

Nasa, the US space agency, is planning to send humans far further than they have ever been before to by making contact with an asteroid up to three million miles away by the end of the next decade.

It would take astronauts far beyond the current limit of human endeavour – the Moon, which is 239,000 miles from Earth.

Travelling at around 50,000 miles per hour around the Sun with almost non-existent gravity due to their small size, landing safely on these space rocks will present a significant challenge.

http://www.telegraph...id-mission.html
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#2    Rhino666

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 05:48 PM

I've read reports that Nasa saying it's too expensive to go back to the moon , but the finance is there to go further, take more risks and possibly achieve nothing.
sounds like hot air to me. Surely the moon would be a good test before trying this.

#3    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostRhino666, on 14 May 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

I've read reports that Nasa saying it's too expensive to go back to the moon , but the finance is there to go further, take more risks and possibly achieve nothing.
sounds like hot air to me. Surely the moon would be a good test before trying this.
The reason this would be cheaper is because you don't need to build a lander vehicle. Because the asteroid has so low surface gravity you can simply park the Orion vehicle (well a pair of the actually) next to it and space walk across, hence much lower development costs.
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#4    pallidin

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 06:18 PM

Man, that's gutsy. Tough-nerved astronauts to be sure. I can see the potential benefits with regards to dealing with a catastrophic near-earth asteroid in the future. Reminds me of that one movie with Bruce Willis.

#5    the L

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:44 PM

I dont know what will they proof there. Why dont look at JAXAs Hayabusa.
Isnt this just risking peoples life?

"Hayabusa was an unmanned spacecraft developed by the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) to return a sample of material from a small near-Earth asteroid named 25143 Itokawa to Earth for further analysis. In November 2005, it landed on the asteroid and collected samples in the form of tiny grains of asteroidal material, which were returned to Earth aboard the spacecraft on 13 June 2010.Hayabusa studied the asteroid's shape, spin, topography, colour, composition, density, and history." wiki

#6    Rafterman

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:42 PM

View Postthe N, on 14 May 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

I dont know what will they proof there. Why dont look at JAXAs Hayabusa.
Isnt this just risking peoples life?

"Hayabusa was an unmanned spacecraft developed by the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) to return a sample of material from a small near-Earth asteroid named 25143 Itokawa to Earth for further analysis. In November 2005, it landed on the asteroid and collected samples in the form of tiny grains of asteroidal material, which were returned to Earth aboard the spacecraft on 13 June 2010.Hayabusa studied the asteroid's shape, spin, topography, colour, composition, density, and history." wiki

Well it would be nice to know they had some practice in case they ever have to blow one of these things up.

Not to mention, tremendous mineral resources on some of these things that could be mined.

#7    the L

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostRafterman, on 14 May 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Well it would be nice to know they had some practice in case they ever have to blow one of these things up.

Not to mention, tremendous mineral resources on some of these things that could be mined.

If thats what makes people peacefull.... I would rather then that they go on comets and bring us some water from the space.
Recently I read how some of Earths water is from comets.

#8    the L

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:44 PM

Too bad that article dont work anymore.

#9    DONTEATUS

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 10:10 PM

Its still a Long way off ! But worth the investment ! You never know what we may find out there !
Remember "There Out there Man"
This is a Work in Progress!

#10    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM

View Postthe N, on 14 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

I would rather then that they go on comets and bring us some water from the space.
Why do we need to bring water from space here? Aren't the oceans big enough for you?

View Postthe N, on 14 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Recently I read how some of Earths water is from comets.
Actually all of Earths water originated on comets, but that still doesn't clarify why you think we need more. How can it be easier and more cost effective (and for that matter a more efficient use of energy) to bring a comet to Earth than desalinate ocean water and pump it to where it is needed?

View Postthe N, on 14 May 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Too bad that article dont work anymore.
The article works fine.
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#11    Mentalcase

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:34 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Why do we need to bring water from space here? Aren't the oceans big enough for you?


Actually all of Earths water originated on comets, but that still doesn't clarify why you think we need more. How can it be easier and more cost effective (and for that matter a more efficient use of energy) to bring a comet to Earth than desalinate ocean water and pump it to where it is needed?


The article works fine.
Some really sound comments here!
I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence ~Richard Feynman"Just words you know" ~Written/composed by Mentalcase

#12    the L

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:01 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Why do we need to bring water from space here? Aren't the oceans big enough for you?


Actually all of Earths water originated on comets, but that still doesn't clarify why you think we need more. How can it be easier and more cost effective (and for that matter a more efficient use of energy) to bring a comet to Earth than desalinate ocean water and pump it to where it is needed?


The article works fine.

It wont work if you want to enter from here
http://www.unexplain...s.php?id=227040

About water, I tought that comet water wasnt salt.

#13    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

View Postthe N, on 15 May 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

It wont work if you want to enter from here
http://www.unexplain...s.php?id=227040

I've notified Saru and he has fixed the link.

View Postthe N, on 15 May 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

About water, I tought that comet water wasnt salt.

And your point is?

There seem to be three very fundamental issues which you have either overlooked or not understood:

  • The nature and composition of comets
  • The way the natural water cycle works
  • Basic economic commonsense

Let's address these issues one by one.

The nature and composition of comets

Comets are often described as dirty snowballs. This is an over simplification. As well as being a mixture of water ice, dust and rock there are other chemicals present too, such as ammonia, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, methane, methanol, hydrogen cyanide, formaldehyde, ethanol and ethane, long-chain hydrocarbons and amino acids. Your comet water may not be salty, but it is far from pure.

This water ice isn't sitting nicely on the surface either. Comet nuclei have a crust of dark material, probably made up of long chain organic material. The water ice is below this.

Next we have to consider the orbits of comets. These tend to fall into two main types, short period and long period. Both types present problems for your idea.

Short period comets have well known orbital parameters and are the easiest to send spacecraft too. The problem is that because they have made many passes of the sun they have lost a large amount of their volatile material.. including water.

Long period comets, on the other hand, maybe virtually pristine, containing almost all their water. The problem is they arrive unexpectedly. There is no way of knowing when a decent one will arrive.

Even assuming you do decide to mine the water on a comet the elongated nature of their orbits present you with a problem. If you mine them when they are close to the sun (and therefore the earth) you have very little time. They move rapidly through the inner solar system before disappearing back into the depths of space. This need to work quickly makes things more difficult (and remember, in economic terms, difficult = expensive). On top of this when a comet is close to the sun it starts to out gas. Volatile material boils of, breaking through the crust and forming the comet's coma and tail. This out gassing would make the comet a difficult, if not dangerous, place to work.

The alternative would be to work on the comet when it is a long distance from the sun. This way the comet would be more stable and you would not have to rush so much. The problem here is that we are talking about distances beyond Jupiter's orbit. Transporting water over those kinds of distances would be expensive.

The natural water cycle

The reason areas have drought is not because Earth lacks water, it's because fresh water doesn't always fall where we want it to.

You have been a bit vague in your posts, but I'm assuming you want this comet water to supply drought hit areas. You need to think what will happen to that water. After use it will enter the water cycle. It will either evaporate to become rain somewhere else eventually finding its way to the ocean, or it will be pumped into a river where it will find it'd way to the ocean. Your comet water will only be used once then it will be gone. Then what? Mine more and more comets? You may not have noticed, but one thing this planet doesn't need is rising ocean levels.

Economic common sense

In my first reply to you I asked you a simple question. So far you have failed to answer it, so I'll ask again:

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 14 May 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

How can it be easier and more cost effective (and for that matter a more efficient use of energy) to bring a comet to Earth than desalinate ocean water and pump it to where it is needed?

Your answer was simply to say that cometary water isn't salty. But that is the whole point of desalination. From a scientific point of view it is extremely simple. Heat salt water so that the water evaporates. Collect the water vapour and cool it. What you have done is collect fresh water and leave the salt behind.

The main problem with desalination plants is that they require large amounts of energy in the form of either heat and/or electricity. However many of the worlds drought zones are in hot countries, where there is a vast amount of free solar energy.

Even if you do reject the idea of desalination there is a much closer, cheaper and technologically simpler source of water ice. It would be easier to tow an iceberg to a drought zone than to tow a comet to one.
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#14    Rafterman

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 02:08 PM

View Postthe N, on 14 May 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

If thats what makes people peacefull.... I would rather then that they go on comets and bring us some water from the space.
Recently I read how some of Earths water is from comets.

Isn't it easier to just go to the kitchen?

#15    the L

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 05:52 PM

Well I dont know much about comets, true.
But member here mention taking metals from earth so my idea was water. Why not? I already imagine advertise. Milky way water.
Rich Chinese, Russians and Arabs will spent fortune.

Also I was under impression of this picture.

http://ga.water.usgs...ter-volume.html





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