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The existence of God can never be proven

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#16    wuhugm

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:08 AM

 Bluefinger, on 01 December 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Is the entire point of intellectualism solely to reduce one's own suffering by ensuring that nothing will ever deceive him?  

The evidence of God is in the fulfillment of His promises among His people.  It's come to that because creation wasn't enough to point to God, as many cultures found it fit to worship things He created rather than the Creator Himself.  It's spelled out in the Bible.  

As my pastor pointed out today, signs and miracles always follow the preaching of the Gospel, not precede it.  Jesus didn't come doing miracles first and then preaching.  So He doesn't satisfy philosophical demands for empirical evidence.  Nonetheless, as long as His Gospel is preached, you'll never get away from it.  And I have a feeling that if you shut the mouths of His people, the earth itself would cry out.

Dude! you're right!

Miracles never was used to create Faith but instead to reinforce Faith

hoho, then believing in something because it shows us miracle is a wrong order, not a believer or religious at all, simply logical.

Deep...


#17    GreenmansGod

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:30 AM

Logical?  First someone tells a story, then someone likes it and writes a book. They have to sell the book, so they build on the story,  Kind of like telling how big a fish was, it keeps getting bigger or how many there was in this case.   Then if you can sell people on the idea and the story,  you got a religion.  Whether or not the story is true is irrelevant.  Look as the stories of Norsemen, the Irish and the Welsh,  magic and miracles abound, it our nature to crave drama and things out of the ordinary to save us from our mundane lives of mucking out the stall, cutting wheat and feeding the chickens. Life before electric was rather boring.  

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#18    Bluefinger

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:53 AM

I disagree Green.  

First, the ancient culture wasn't capitalistic.  Second, stories revolved around societies as a whole, not individuals who wanted to make a profit.  

Third, the ancient aliens theory has a point.  Why all the stories of heavenly beings?  Even the Bible mentions it.  Likely, these stories weren't inspired by imagination.  If imagination took over, its likely the stories were inspired by actual events.  In the same way, every culture has a flood story.  Coincidence?  I think not.

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#19    DamianFarrow

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:12 AM

I think that's what we need as a race right now. We need this god to come out and show themselves. It would make life so much easier knowing that we're not alone

What god it may be is a whole different discussion.


#20    Chooky88

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:41 AM

Can't be disproved either. That's why it's called 'faith.'


#21    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:44 AM

Faith is nothing more than believing something because you want to.


#22    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

 Frank Merton, on 03 December 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Faith is nothing more than believing something because you want to.

Want to. need to. Choose to.
Faith is a condition all humans can choose, or not chose, to adopt.
We have faith. We invest faith. We act on faith.
I'd put it more positively. Like love, compassion, mercy, altruism  and forgiveness; faith is one of the   expressions of our nature. It makes us what we are as human beings, and is a reflection of who and what we can be. My parents put their faith in me when I was born and  I didn't let them down. I put my faith in my wife when I married her, and she lived up to  that faith in every way.
Faith brings positive consequences, of its self, with nothing else required.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 December 2013 - 11:26 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:28 AM

I don't see faith as a virtue; I think some who would have us believe things make it into a virtue but I see it as perhaps something of a weakness.  Faith is an excuse, as it were, for believing things we would like to believe but can't find other reasons for believing.


#24    Bluefinger

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:28 AM

Faith is trusting in God to come through with His promises.  That's the Biblical explanation anyway.  


It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#25    Almagest

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

'Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'

So is there a two thousand year old witness to that statement or is it a broken promise?

Life is the result of the struggle between dynamic opposites Form & Chaos, Substance & Oblivion, Light & Dark And all the infinite variations of Yin & Yang
When the pendulum swings in favour of one It will eventually swing in favour of it's opposite Thus the balance of the universe is maintained

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#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:27 PM

 Almagest, on 03 December 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

'Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'

So is there a two thousand year old witness to that statement or is it a broken promise?
So maybe there are a few hiding out who were alive to hear those words and are still around.  I've read stories about such people.


#27    Paranoid Android

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:25 PM

 Almagest, on 03 December 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

'Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.'

So is there a two thousand year old witness to that statement or is it a broken promise?
How do you know it didn't happen? Maybe it did and you're just not looking in the right place to see it?

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#28    Rlyeh

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:03 PM

 Chooky88, on 03 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Can't be disproved either. That's why it's called 'faith.'
Tell that to the flat earthers and young earth creationists, they have no problem believing in something that has been thoroughly refuted.


#29    fullywired

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:30 PM

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."


                           Mark Twain

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#30    GreenmansGod

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 03:52 PM

 Bluefinger, on 03 December 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

I disagree Green.  

First, the ancient culture wasn't capitalistic.  Second, stories revolved around societies as a whole, not individuals who wanted to make a profit.  

Third, the ancient aliens theory has a point.  Why all the stories of heavenly beings?  Even the Bible mentions it.  Likely, these stories weren't inspired by imagination.  If imagination took over, its likely the stories were inspired by actual events.  In the same way, every culture has a flood story.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Floods are a common occurrence, they happen all over the world. People get together and tell their flood stories, then put them together and don't bother with the floods might be 20 years apart.  Bardic Druids traveled all over Celtic Europe, they received a reward of dinner and shelter for the night for news, a song or a good yarn.  I live in the Southern US and I have brought many a beer in exchange for a good yarn, Southerns are the masters of a good yarn. Were they true, well maybe, that is why it is called a yarn. What ever society you live in you got to eat. Ancient people had money and trade goods that sounds like capitalism to me.  People want to be entertained a good story is a good trade.  If the Bible is a true story, then you have to except the Vedas, Iliad, Valhalla,  and the rest as true stories. There are bits and pieces of real happenings in all of them, but most of it is entertainment.
People see things they can't explain, so they come up with an explanation that fits into the context of their time and experience.  People have replace unexplained sightings of "heavenly beings" with aliens. A UFO is an unidentified flying object, in other words you don't know what it is, it's unidentified.  Unicorns were thought to be real at one time. Big money was paid for their horns.  What were they really, a whale's tooth.  The people who killed the whale knew what it was, but they were sold as the horn of a unicorn. Yup, there is a sucker born every minute.

Edited by GreenmansGod, 03 December 2013 - 03:53 PM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie




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