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9/11 conspiracy theories won't stop


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#421    Q24

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:45 AM

View PostLittle Fish, on 28 October 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

why was bin laden never apprehended on 911?
on the day before 911 he was in a pakistani military hospital in rawalpindi.
is it conceivable that the US or pakistan authorities could not apprehend him within hours of 911?
http://www.globalres...es/CHO311A.html
Did anyone watch the BBC documentary “Secret Pakistan” this week?

The gist is that the ISI are aware of many Taliban and Al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan but have been providing them protection and on more than one occasion ensuring their escape.  The individuals the ISI have detained and handed over to the U.S. were mostly lower-level targets designed to make it appear that Pakistan was taking action and to give political leverage.

I am certain that the ISI would not have missed the biggest target: Osama bin Laden.

One of those interviewed was an Afghan commander, I don’t remember if he was a Northern Alliance guy.  He had assisted the limited U.S. forces at Tora Bora in December 2001, where they had bin Laden pinned down in the mountains.  He stated his belief that another commander who negotiated a ceasefire between the Al Qaeda militants there and U.S. led mission was in fact an ISI agent and this was done with the intention of allowing bin Laden and his escort to escape safely into Pakistan.

The thing is, there have long been ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda connections and it is unbelievable that no one or element within each of those groups knew what the other was doing.  And it was U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld who turned down the request to send further forces to the region.  Had he done so, bin Laden would have been captured or killed ten years ago.

Anyway, the second part of “Secret Pakistan” is on Wednesday.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#422    Mike 215

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 01:36 PM

I will tell you the true story about Bin Laden. He was a sick man on dialysis. He probably died years before and his body was probably discovered earlier this year buried in Afghanistan by our soldiers. Now the Obama administration had a problem. IF they admitted they found his body, President Bush would get the credit. So the made up the story about him living in that house and the supposed assassination.
  But now the administration has other problems. The public knew that the photographs of the bodies of Saddam Hussein and his sons were made public and they would demand proof that he died. But they could not show his body because all that is left is some skin and bones and no evidence of being shot. So they lied again by saying that they could not release photos of his body because millions of his followers would rise up and demand revenge. Then there would be the problem of bringing the body back to the US for examination. They could not do that because the fraud would be exposed. So they came up with the next excuse that the body had to be buried in 24 hours after death. They claimed they dropped it in the ocean so it will be not be dug up and Obama's little game would be exposed.
  The administration did make one glaring mistake in this phoney assassination. They forgot to put a dialysis machine in the house. If he was alive he would have to have treatments in his house because going to a hospital would be to dangerous.
  I do give credit to the administration for successfully executing this fraud. IT was almost as good as the phoney moon landings.


#423    MID

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:42 PM

View PostMike 215, on 28 October 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

I will tell you the true story about Bin Laden. He was a sick man on dialysis. He probably died years before and his body was probably discovered earlier this year buried in Afghanistan by our soldiers. Now the Obama administration had a problem. IF they admitted they found his body, President Bush would get the credit. So the made up the story about him living in that house and the supposed assassination.
  But now the administration has other problems. The public knew that the photographs of the bodies of Saddam Hussein and his sons were made public and they would demand proof that he died. But they could not show his body because all that is left is some skin and bones and no evidence of being shot. So they lied again by saying that they could not release photos of his body because millions of his followers would rise up and demand revenge. Then there would be the problem of bringing the body back to the US for examination. They could not do that because the fraud would be exposed. So they came up with the next excuse that the body had to be buried in 24 hours after death. They claimed they dropped it in the ocean so it will be not be dug up and Obama's little game would be exposed.
  The administration did make one glaring mistake in this phoney assassination. They forgot to put a dialysis machine in the house. If he was alive he would have to have treatments in his house because going to a hospital would be to dangerous.
  I do give credit to the administration for successfully executing this fraud. IT was almost as good as the phoney moon landings.

:rolleyes:

You are like a living, breathing "National Enquirer".


THE TRUE STORY ABOUT BIN LADEN !
Enquirer exclusive by Mike 215

...and what follows is a completely unsubstantiated, unprovable fable of fantasy.


:w00t:


#424    Scott G

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:06 PM

View PostMID, on 28 October 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

:rolleyes:

You are like a living, breathing "National Enquirer".


THE TRUE STORY ABOUT BIN LADEN !
Enquirer exclusive by Mike 215

...and what follows is a completely unsubstantiated, unprovable fable of fantasy.


:w00t:

Mike may have not provided sources, but he's essentially correct. I'll provide some sources:
9/11 ANALYSIS: Where was Osama bin Laden on September 11, 2001

There are around 19 million hits if you type in "bin laden dead long before raid':
http://www.google.co...ong before raid

Iranian Intelligence on the matter:
'Bin Laden dead long before US raid'

A more in depth article on the subject, this time with Pakistani intelligence concurring:
http://wondersofpaki...before-us-raid/


#425    Wandering

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 12:05 AM

Hmmm It is interesting if there was no Dialysis machine found in the house. Is that confirmed?


#426    Czero 101

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:33 AM

View PostScott G, on 28 October 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:

There are around 19 million hits if you type in "bin laden dead long before raid':
http://www.google.co...ong before raid

This is true... but how many of those hits are actually relevant...?

Amongst those 19M results will be links that have just "bin" or just "laden" or just "dead" or just "long" or just "before" or just "raid" or the myriad combinations of those words in them and many links will be to identical content on different sites...

However its interesting to note that if you Google the specific phrase "bin laden dead before raid" (keep the " quotes around the phrase), you only get 7 hits.

If you include "long" ("bin laden dead long before raid") you get 3 hits...

Googling "bin laden dead long before US raid" brings back about 201,000 hits, but most seem to reference the same or very similar article or posts on other message boards.




Cz

Edited by Czero 101, 29 October 2011 - 03:38 AM.

"Thinking is critical, because sense is not common..." - GreaterSapien

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#427    Mike D boy

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:33 AM

Find a conspiracy theory here on the astro.com star chart when the first Twin Tower was attacked on Sept. 11, 2011 at 08:45 EDT...and other following events like the plane hitting the Pentagon and the heroic redirect of another hijacked plane Shanksville, Pa. occurred from 9 to 10:30 EDT.

http://www.astro.com...cK2-u1319865644

Well, the Moon and true node are close in the sign of Gemini, the Sun in Virgo next to an ascendant Libra and a traffic jam of the planets in Cancer with the dawn sighting of the "morning star" Venus in Leo.

And to the opposite 3 more planets on Sagittarius and Capricorn, with Scorpio in between below the invisible northern horizon (daytime)...and the last two signs: Aquarius-Pisces already set below, while the first two signs: Aries-Taurus descending on the other side.  

One can interpret what the astrological projection on the very moment on that dreadful day to live in infamy, but to see Gemini (the symbol is "II") symbolizes the Twin Towers, the number "9" as in 09:00AM EDT when another hijacked airliner struck the second tower.

Meteorologists had recorded weather conditions on NYC: a warm clear Tuesday with perfect weather in the lower 80s fahrenheit, and two tropical storms off the New England coast with Long Island, Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket under partly cloudy skies.

On 9/11/ (20) 01...around 9AM...two tropical storms...the sign of Gemini, though not the second sign of the astrological zodiac. A whole lot of coincidences in mother nature pinpointed to a tragic event on the social, political and cultural scale of mankind. Remember, 9/11 was a terrible event not only for New Yorkers or Washington DC, but for Americans and the entire world as well.

Edited by DeMikeDe, 29 October 2011 - 05:37 AM.

:innocent: The Truth is Out There - the X Files. :alien:

#428    Wandering

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:55 AM

Quote

Find a conspiracy theory here on the astro.com star chart when the first Twin Tower was attacked on Sept. 11, 2011 at 08:45 EDT...and other following events like the plane hitting the Pentagon and the heroic redirect of another hijacked plane Shanksville, Pa. occurred from 9 to 10:30 EDT.

http://www.astro.com...cK2-u1319865644

Well, the Moon and true node are close in the sign of Gemini, the Sun in Virgo next to an ascendant Libra and a traffic jam of the planets in Cancer with the dawn sighting of the "morning star" Venus in Leo.

And to the opposite 3 more planets on Sagittarius and Capricorn, with Scorpio in between below the invisible northern horizon (daytime)...and the last two signs: Aquarius-Pisces already set below, while the first two signs: Aries-Taurus descending on the other side.

One can interpret what the astrological projection on the very moment on that dreadful day to live in infamy, but to see Gemini (the symbol is "II") symbolizes the Twin Towers, the number "9" as in 09:00AM EDT when another hijacked airliner struck the second tower.

Meteorologists had recorded weather conditions on NYC: a warm clear Tuesday with perfect weather in the lower 80s fahrenheit, and two tropical storms off the New England coast with Long Island, Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket under partly cloudy skies.

On 9/11/ (20) 01...around 9AM...two tropical storms...the sign of Gemini, though not the second sign of the astrological zodiac. A whole lot of coincidences in mother nature pinpointed to a tragic event on the social, political and cultural scale of mankind. Remember, 9/11 was a terrible event not only for New Yorkers or Washington DC, but for Americans and the entire world as well.


Can you expand on the symbolism of the planets involved and why they hinted at a tragic event? I find the idea that planets affect life quite interesting. :tu:


#429    Q24

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 12:14 PM

View PostMike 215, on 28 October 2011 - 01:36 PM, said:

I will tell you the true story about Bin Laden. He was a sick man on dialysis. He probably died years before and his body was probably discovered earlier this year buried in Afghanistan by our soldiers. Now the Obama administration had a problem. IF they admitted they found his body, President Bush would get the credit. So the made up the story about him living in that house and the supposed assassination.
The problem with the theory is that it relies on the above red text.  It is a stretch to think the Obama administration staged the entire operation along with fabricating the back story (from loss of the multi-million dollar helicopter to DNA testing) and risk having that contested… rather than… just report that bin Laden died years ago of kidney failure?  I’m sure the Bush administration wouldn’t get any credit for that.  The Obama administration would still take credit for finding the body and confirming the death.

There is a very obvious solution that hasn’t caught on as much as I thought it would: bin Laden was placed under control immediately after 9/11 and held under house arrest, with the recent assassination being genuine.  There is evidence for this in early media reports and extremely strong evidence in circumstance of the compound.  It fits with other evidence such as that in my last post and known movement of bin Laden.  A number of mainstream media commentators have supported it also.

Lt Col Ralph Peters, whilst praising the U.S. operation, had this to say: -

“I think the reason bin Laden stayed there so long was very straightforward - he was a prisoner in a gilded cage.  The Pakistani ISI had him there, he wasn't free to go.  They were in my view keeping him there until they needed him.  So it was a gentle imprisonment.

I worked with the Pakistanis at least briefly in the 90s, I have followed them for a long time.  And there is no way the Inter Services Intelligence Agency, the Pakistani CIA plus equivalent, didn't know where this guy was, they had to know.  There is no doubt that the ISI knew he was there and helped him.  It is my supposition that he wasn’t free to go, the deal was he wasn’t free to go and they protected him.”


Raelynn Hillhouse, an American security analyst with contacts in the intelligence services has said: -

“My sources tell me that the informant claimed that the Saudis were paying off the Pakistani military and intelligence (ISI) to essentially shelter and keep bin Laden under house arrest in Abbottabad, a city with such a high concentration of military that I'm told there's no equivalent in the US.”


Another security analyst, Juan Zarate, commented: -

“One of the things that surprised me (in viewing the video) is, with bin Laden having been in this compound for about five, maybe six years, it's a little bit like he was under house arrest. He was really a prisoner, in a sense, in this compound. And so, what we may be looking at is a dimension of the prison that he was in for about five years there in Abbottabad.”


I don’t understand why so many claim the whole assassination was faked when the above makes so much sense.  Is it not a big enough conspiracy?  Once you have the ISI and Saudis tied in then it is very easy to connect to Western intelligence.  Osama bin Laden was a prisoner of the same powers that would benefit from the ‘War on Terror’.  He was of more benefit to the pretext alive where his statements could be continue to be released (and vetted).  The Obama administration and intelligence agents not in the loop eventually caught wind of the situation and did what could be expected.

What I’m not clear about is the official story on this - is there one?  I mean, is it that the compound was a terrorist safe-house or that legitimate Pakistani intelligence and/or military elements were involved?  It appears the latter that is widely and officially accepted.  If so, the lack of U.S. response and action is most telling.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#430    Mike 215

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM

If he was killed on that day, then why withold pictures of his body? The administration claims that the entire Moslem world would rise up if such pictures were release. However, we had no problem releasing pictures of a dead Saddam Hussein and his sons or pictures of the former dead leader of Libya.
  It is obvious that the administration is lying about the reasons for withholding those pictures and even films of the so called funeral at sea. And that answer is that the body they have is nothing more then skin and bones after being buried for years in the desert. OF couse they could have tried to use the body of an actor or a mannequin to simulate him, but that could lead to other problems such as questins about the Apollo pictures and the Martian rocks.
  So the best answer to these problems is to withhold the pictures from the public.


#431    Scott G

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:41 PM

View PostCzero 101, on 29 October 2011 - 03:33 AM, said:

View PostScott G, on 28 October 2011 - 11:06 PM, said:

There are around 19 million hits if you type in "bin laden dead long before raid':
http://www.google.co...ong+before+raid

This is true... but how many of those hits are actually relevant...?

Amongst those 19M results will be links that have just "bin" or just "laden" or just "dead" or just "long" or just "before" or just "raid" or the myriad combinations of those words in them and many links will be to identical content on different sites...

However  its interesting to note that if you Google the specific phrase "bin  laden dead before raid" (keep the " quotes around the phrase), you only  get 7 hits.

If you include "long" ("bin laden dead long before raid") you get 3 hits...

Googling  "bin laden dead long before US raid" brings back about 201,000 hits,  but most seem to reference the same or very similar article or posts on  other message boards.

That is rather interesting. However, from the first few links that popped up, I think there's a very good reason that these similar articles have gone viral; we're talking Iranian and Pakistani intelligence here, not some mass media outlet's gushing over the latest white house approved script. Which brings us back to the rest of my post...

Iranian Intelligence on the matter:
'Bin Laden dead long before US raid'

A more in depth article on the subject, this time with Pakistani intelligence concurring:
http://wondersofpaki...before-us-raid/

Edited by Scott G, 29 October 2011 - 02:43 PM.


#432    Scott G

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:33 PM

View PostMike 215, on 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

If he was killed on that day, then why withold pictures of his body? The administration claims that the entire Moslem world would rise up if such pictures were release[d]. However, we had no problem releasing pictures of a dead Saddam Hussein and his sons or pictures of the former dead leader of Libya.

Good point.

View PostMike 215, on 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

It is obvious that the administration is lying about the reasons for withholding those pictures and even films of the so called funeral at sea.

I don't think it's obvious, atleast not to anyone who hasn't done enough research, but given enough analysis, I think that the conclusion is more or less right; there's just one caveat; are they withholding these pictures or could it be that they don't even exist? Another point to consider; has anyone noticed that to this day, we don't know the precise military men who apparently invaded "Bin Laden's" compound? It looks like they may well have been killed shortly after allegedly killing "Bin Laden":
http://www.infowars....team-6-exposed/

If the people killed in the Pakistani compound didn't include one Bin Laden, it would certainly make it easier to keep this truth secret if the people who allegedly killed him all died.

View PostMike 215, on 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

And that answer is that the body they have is nothing more then skin and bones after being buried for years in the desert...

Personally, I'm still not sure as to the fate of Bin Laden, although I'm fairly sure that he's dead by now. I think a good place to start any such investigation would be wikipedia's web page on the various theories as to when and where Osama died:
http://en.wikipedia....piracy_theories


#433    Q24

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:18 PM

View PostMike 215, on 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

If he was killed on that day, then why withold pictures of his body? The administration claims that the entire Moslem world would rise up if such pictures were release. However, we had no problem releasing pictures of a dead Saddam Hussein and his sons or pictures of the former dead leader of Libya.
  It is obvious that the administration is lying about the reasons for withholding those pictures and even films of the so called funeral at sea. And that answer is that the body they have is nothing more then skin and bones after being buried for years in the desert. OF couse they could have tried to use the body of an actor or a mannequin to simulate him, but that could lead to other problems such as questins about the Apollo pictures and the Martian rocks.
  So the best answer to these problems is to withhold the pictures from the public.
It is a good question and I agree the reason given alone for withholding pictures is weak.

As you have said, the answer you suggest necessitates the U.S. mission was an extravagant fake.  But then I maintain - why go through all that staging and fabricate a convoluted, and in places contradictory, back story that raises questions?  Rather than just report bin Laden was found buried in the desert and died years ago of kidney failure - ha, he is dead and Obama brought it to you first.

There is another answer…

What do you assume bin Laden would look like in picture?  Perhaps along the lines of Hussein and Gaddafi, no notable features except being battered and bloodied?  Well suppose bin Laden was shot toward the back of the head.  Have you seen the exit wounds bullets can make?  He could have had half his face and skull missing.

Now it’s not the graphic nature of the picture that would be so much a problem - perhaps they could have pulled the pieces back together, stitched it up and made him somewhat presentable.  The problem is, without faking anything… it’s going to be obvious what happened; that bin Laden met his end in premeditated murder, facing away from the shooter.

Was that after his surrender?  Whilst turning away in fear?  Cowering on the floor or in a corner?  These are all questions that would reasonably be raised.  It would show there was never any intent to take bin Laden out of that compound alive.  It disputes the argument that bin Laden resisted.  It would be a difficult public and international relations issue for the U.S.  If this were the case then it makes the official line about not wanting to incite anyone rather more believable - the Obama administration just aren’t giving the full explanation.

An extravagant staged event and outright lies all just so Obama could boast the kill was made under his watch?

Or a bullet in the back of the head?

These both might answer why no picture was released more strongly than the official line, though the second is by far more straightforward.

Operation Northwoods was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to cause acts of violence, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government. The plan called for various false flag actions, such as staged terrorist attacks and plane hijackings, on U.S. and Cuban soil.

#434    MID

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:21 PM

Quote

Mike may have not provided sources, but he's essentially correct.

I think he's as correct as anyone who wants to believe, and who uses his energy not to study and learn, but to troll forums with nonsensical repititions.


Quote

I'll provide some sources:
They're sources alright.  they're the only sources you're going to be able to find.  However, they're all highly suspect, and of dubious if not complete irrelevance...

Quote


Who cares where he was on September 11, 2001?  He didn't execute a well designed plan.  He could've been anywhere and it would've happened.

Quote

There are around 19 million hits if you type in "bin laden dead long before raid':
http://www.google.co...ong before raid


So what?  19 million hits is significant how?



Quote

Iranian Intelligence on the matter:
'Bin Laden dead long before US raid'

Iranian intelligence??? :geek:
Now you're really stretching.

Quote

A more in depth article on the subject, this time with Pakistani intelligence concurring:
http://wondersofpaki...before-us-raid/

And even more ridiculous, Pakistani Intelligence?
How good is that intel????

:rolleyes:


It's interesting (not) how all of this supposedly significant stuff you posted came out after Bin Laden was killed...not when it should've been published...before the US raid that actually killed him.


#435    frenat

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:58 PM

View PostMike 215, on 29 October 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

If he was killed on that day, then why withold pictures of his body? The administration claims that the entire Moslem world would rise up if such pictures were release. However, we had no problem releasing pictures of a dead Saddam Hussein and his sons or pictures of the former dead leader of Libya.
  It is obvious that the administration is lying about the reasons for withholding those pictures and even films of the so called funeral at sea. And that answer is that the body they have is nothing more then skin and bones after being buried for years in the desert. OF couse they could have tried to use the body of an actor or a mannequin to simulate him, but that could lead to other problems such as questins about the Apollo pictures and the Martian rocks.
  So the best answer to these problems is to withhold the pictures from the public.
NONE of those pictures were released by the US media or military.  They were released in other sources first.

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