198 replies to this topic

[zoser]

bmk1245, on 26 September 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

  Say, WHAT?!!!
Typical believer with wide opened mind...

I just think you are just living in some make believe world.  These are men of integrity, honour and who pride themselves in carrying out their duty to the highest standards.  Making up a tale or misrepresenting something as blatant as this is not the style of people like this.

If we were dealing with drug addicts, crooks, alcoholics, mischief making bums, I would totally agree with you.  Not military men of rank and honour.  Somewhere along the line one has to stand up for these people and the testimonies they relate, or quality dealings between people become a joke.  To me there are people who still uphold the truth in this world that can be trusted, and this case refers to such folk.

It was a multiple witness sighting, documented, and consistently described.  That's it.  It is not a unique example of unknown objects interfering with nuclear installations.  It has happened multiple times before.  There is a pattern; I'm sure you know the cases.

[TheMacGuffin]

bmk1245, on 26 September 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Once again: show printouts.

The FAA transcripts of the actual conversations have long been available, although since they are in PDF form I can't post them on here directly.

http://russhaywood.c...pt-JAL-1628.pdf


I should also add that you can now buy these radar printouts from the FAA, which was not possible back in the 1980s.  There's a whole list of things related to the JAL case that they will sell you now, including a "complete package" for $194.30.

http://russhaywood.c...-Order-Form.pdf

[bmk1245]

zoser, on 26 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

I just think you are just living in some make believe world.  These are men of integrity, honour and who pride themselves in carrying out their duty to the highest standards.  Making up a tale or misrepresenting something as blatant as this is not the style of people like this.

If we were dealing with drug addicts, crooks, alcoholics, mischief making bums, I would totally agree with you.  Not military men of rank and honour.  Somewhere along the line one has to stand up for these people and the testimonies they relate, or quality dealings between people become a joke.  To me there are people who still uphold the truth in this world that can be trusted, and this case refers to such folk.

It was a multiple witness sighting, documented, and consistently described.  That's it.  It is not a unique example of unknown objects interfering with nuclear installations.  It has happened multiple times before.  There is a pattern; I'm sure you know the cases.

Sigh...
I can recommend you to go to library and find Aviation Visual Perception: Research, Misperception and Mishaps, R, Gibb et al, Ashgate (2010). You'll be amazed how many times "I know what I see" overconfidence caused lives. And mind you that even pilots with over 10000 flight hours aren't perception failure-proof.

[TheMacGuffin]

For whatever reason, they don't seem to consider this case as big a secret now as they did when the Cold War was still going on, not if they have started to sell these FAA records to the public.

I wasn't even aware that these were publicly available until today, when I read this paper by Russ Haywood on the JAL incident.  I'm not going to pay the $194 to get all of them, though.

http://russhaywood.c...-in-Alaska1.pdf

[zoser]

bmk1245, on 26 September 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Sigh...
I can recommend you to go to library and find Aviation Visual Perception: Research, Misperception and Mishaps, R, Gibb et al, Ashgate (2010). You'll be amazed how many times "I know what I see" overconfidence caused lives. And mind you that even pilots with over 10000 flight hours aren't perception failure-proof.

I'm not interested in some intellectual theories concocted by some university boffin on the reliability of the human mind.  I'm interested in a group of high integrity professionals who reported a highly unusual case that left an indelible mark on them.  

There's nowhere to hide on this one.

Edited by zoser, 26 September 2012 - 08:02 PM.

[bmk1245]

TheMacGuffin, on 26 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

The FAA transcripts of the actual conversations have long been available, although since they are in PDF form I can't post them on here directly.

http://russhaywood.c...pt-JAL-1628.pdf
[...]

Thank you for posting that... I never had seen that... I never had read that....

TheMacGuffin, on 26 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

[...]I should also add that you can now buy these radar printouts from the FAA, which was not possible back in the 1980s.  There's a whole list of things related to the JAL case that they will sell you now, including a "complete package" for $194.30.

http://russhaywood.c...-Order-Form.pdf

May I ask you: $194.30 now, or it was more than a decade ago?!

[TheMacGuffin]

They will even sell you the recordings of the original interview with Capt. Terauchi, the transcript of which is here.

http://russhaywood.c...tement-1987.pdf

[TheMacGuffin]

bmk1245, on 26 September 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Thank you for posting that... I never had seen that... I never had read that....

May I ask you: $194.30 now, or it was more than a decade ago?!

I'm not sure.  I just found out about this in connection with the Russ Haywood article, which was published in August 2011.  I didn't know until today that it was all publicly available now.

[bmk1245]

zoser, on 26 September 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

I'm not interested in some intellectual theories concocted by some university boffin on the reliability of the human mind.  I'm interested in a group of high integrity professionals who reported a highly unusual case that left an i indelible mark on them.  

There's nowhere to hide on this one.

Once again, typical wildly wide open minded believer.  University boffin?
Having in mind that first author is/was a pilot and he brought his own experience (some events) in the book.
Of course, this book with huge amount of references to scientific researches/mishap investigations and with stuff like facts is boring, but at least book has some pictures in case words are to hard to comprehend...

[bmk1245]

TheMacGuffin, on 26 September 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I'm not sure.  I just found out about this in connection with the Russ Haywood article, which was published in August 2011.[...]

Yeah, OK, but cheaper would be ask Mr.Callahan, isn't it? Furthermore, you can get edited out material (by evil FBI/CIA/FAA/Major League Soccer/etc), while Mr. Callahan has it all.

TheMacGuffin, on 26 September 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

[...]  I didn't know until today that it was all publicly available now.

Ummm, what? Just now? You continue to amaze me...

[TheMacGuffin]

bmk1245, on 26 September 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

Yeah, OK, but cheaper would be ask Mr.Callahan, isn't it? Furthermore, you can get edited out material (by evil FBI/CIA/FAA/Major League Soccer/etc), while Mr. Callahan has it all.


Ummm, what? Just now? You continue to amaze me...

You'd have to ask Mr. Callahan about that, not me.  I'm just telling you the truth that I did not know these records were all for sale until today.  What can I say?  I just didn't know about it and haven't been paying attention to it.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 26 September 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Hawkin]

If I recall some of the documentaries on TV about this case, Halt said they were so close
that they noticed some type of hieroglyphics/symbols on the craft.

[DONTEATUS]

Its like the kittys they cover things up .mostly !

[booNyzarC]

Ryegrog, on 26 September 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

If I recall some of the documentaries on TV about this case, Halt said they were so close
that they noticed some type of hieroglyphics/symbols on the craft.

Seems pretty amazing doesn't it?  Although in reality, it wasn't Halt who made this claim, it was Jim Penniston.  The most amazing part about it is that he didn't mention this little tidbit until after he has visited a brain butcher erm, I mean memory regression therapist...  Also amazing is the fact that the guy he was with at the time (Burroughs) had absolutely no recollection of these details or of even seeing a 'landed craft' at all...

Fascinating isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic story.  Truly.  But that doesn't make it any more real than a sci-fi movie.

It's a shame really, because like many other people, this one really had me convinced for a very long while before I actually started looking into it.  I'm all for believing in things that are substantiated and/or of definable value.  This story though doesn't meet either criteria in my opinion.  More details here.

Cheers.

[synchronomy]

Ryegrog, on 26 September 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

If I recall some of the documentaries on TV about this case, Halt said they were so close
that they noticed some type of hieroglyphics/symbols on the craft.

If you go back to post #8, there is a picture of the symbols and the sketches drawn at the scene.