161 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yep, and how exactly is the guy in the hamburger joint going to measure your 1/1600 of an ounce? On his kitchen scale?

I can tell you how that will be: Like in Europe after WWII when people traded a Persian rug for a sack of potatoes, later for a pound of potatoes after the farmer already had a Persian rug in his pigsty and a Monet hanging in the horse stable besides having his dog eating out of sterling silver.

You gold coin has no more value than what somebody will want to give you for it. And if the guy at the hamburger joint waits long enough you will give him two Krugers for a hamburger.

The only thing that has value once the monetary system crashes is what you can produce not what you wasted your money on before the crash.

I bought a digital scale on Ebay that can measure thousandths of a gram and I can fit it in my pocket, so yes, a scale.  It's magical I tell ya.

As for what value people are giving you for it?  They're giving you way more than the spot price consistently every day!     Visit the largest online marketplace in the world and take a look and stop lying to yourself to make your preferred bondholder status feel better.    If you think a currency crisis and the upcoming runs on the banks that you will suffer from in Greece and all across Europe are going to change what is proven daily already right before your eyes, I don't know what you're smoking but you can keep it to yourself.

[questionmark]

Little Fish, on 25 September 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.

you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

About the same as now, give or take $200. Tendency to fall in Q2 as I imagine the gold hamsters will be out of money by then and there still will be gold coming out of the mines that needs a buyer.

And Russia and China have totally different problems than hoarding gold, they have a economy that actually has to compete to keep alive, at least as long as the Euro is undervalued because they have a "crisis". And that you do with cash, not with gold.

Yamato, on 25 September 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I bought a digital scale on Ebay that can measure thousandths of a gram and I can fit it in my pocket, so yes, a scale.  It's magical I tell ya.

As for what value people are giving you for it?  They're giving you way more than the spot price consistently every day! Visit the largest online marketplace in the world and take a look and stop lying to yourself to make your preferred bondholder status feel better. If you think a currency crisis and the upcoming runs on the banks that you will suffer from in Greece and all across Europe are going to change what is proven daily already right before your eyes, I don't know what you're smoking but you can keep it to yourself.

Wait until the gold hamsters run out of money, then we will talk again.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Wait until the gold hamsters run out of money, then we will talk again.

Gold will eventually become a bubble and like everything else that becomes a bubble, its price will correct per the marketplace as should be.  That time is nowhere close to today based on massive expansion of the money supply thanks to central banking crooks worldwide.  Namecalling is what you have to stoop to because your arguments are blind to all reality.  You can keep dreaming that central banks aren't flooding their economies with monopoly money and keep on losing your lunch in the process.  Your happy undeserving country deserves market justice.   You need a serious dose of reality and Nigel Farage now, not your German enablers and losing theories based on the opposite of reality.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 25 September 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

Gold will eventually become a bubble and like everything else that becomes a bubble, its price will correct per the marketplace as should be.  That time is nowhere close to today based on massive expansion of the money supply thanks to central banking crooks worldwide.  Namecalling is what you have to stoop to because your arguments are blind to all reality.  You can keep dreaming that central banks aren't flooding their economies with monopoly money and keep on losing your lunch in the process.  Your happy undeserving country deserves market justice.   You need a serious dose of reality and Nigel Farage now, not your German enablers and losing theories based on the opposite of reality.

Gold is a commodity not a value, and what happens when a commodity gets over-speculated can be read here.

[Br Cornelius]

The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.
A none debauchable, non fiat reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Money has to be tied to real commodities otherwise it is prey to manipulation by people who realise that money in its current form is pure fantasy.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 25 September 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

Gold is a commodity not a value, and what happens when a commodity gets over-speculated can be read here.

Gold is a commodity and commodities have a value.  Gold is money.  This is an historical and present day fact.  Ignoring the market and denying reality makes you look silly.   I understand the need for retarded bondholder theories when economies get into as severe shape as Greece's but you have no hope.  You've crossed the threshold of no return and you're going to crash like a locomotive into a cliff wall.  The central banking idiots and their one trick pony isn't suddenly going to start working.  You don't create any value by dumping money on stuff.   Nothing gets produced.  There is no value there.  It's just new money chasing after existing products and services and prices inevitably must go up.   It's like cancer and all your heroes do is spread it.

[questionmark]

Br Cornelius, on 25 September 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.
A none debauchable, non fiat currency  reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Br Cornelius

If these guys that dislike fiat currencies at least would try to base the value of currency on something tangible, like the average productivity of a worker, on the average factory output or on how many pounds of cheese is produced and consumed we would have something. But basing it on a insufficiently available commodity is about as smart as bringing a sword to a gun fight.

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 25 September 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Gold is a commodity and commodities have a value.  Gold is money.  This is an historical and present day fact.  Ignoring the market and denying reality makes you look silly.   I understand the need for retarded bondholder theories when economies get into as severe shape as Greece's but you have no hope.  You've crossed the threshold of no return and you're going to crash like a locomotive into a cliff wall.  The central banking idiots and their one trick pony isn't suddenly going to start working.  You don't create any value by dumping money on stuff.   Nothing gets produced.  There is no value there.  It's just new money chasing after existing products and services and prices inevitably must go up.   It's like cancer and all your heroes do is spread it.

Gold is NOT money, that is what the trader who sold you your stack told you cause he saw a sucker coming in. If gold were money it would never change in value but all values would be measured in gold.

Some times I wonder whether G*D forgot some when he passed out brains.

[Yamato]

Br Cornelius, on 25 September 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.
A none debauchable, non fiat currency  reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Br Cornelius

A real international currency?  LOL

How about nobody work anymore?   Why even work anymore?   Let's just print money if we're going to pretend that it works!   Let's print $16 trillion right now and pay off our national debt and then let's print another $4 trillion and buy a big pile of plastic junk from China down at Walmart!   Holy ****g $@# where does this Keynesian nuttery end?

The banks have proven for years they're only going to use their dirty money to buy commodities and restrict lending to only the richest and most reliable borrowers, while rewarding savers who worked their entire lives and did everything right with zero percent decay for their honesty.   Continuing to dump more fallow money onto the field isn't going to change anything and that's all the central yahoos know how to do.  It's a one trick disaster and it's going down hard.  If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, this is the best example of that in the world today.   If you care about partisan politics, puppet bureaucrats, and next quarter's GDP, keep on cheering.  If you're a Greek and you're scared to death about how big your next bailout is going to be (and there will be a next bailout), keep on cheering.

[Yamato]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Gold is NOT money, that is what the trader who sold you your stack told you cause he saw a sucker coming in. If gold were money it would never change in value but all values would be measured in gold.

Some times I wonder whether G*D forgot some when he passed out brains.

Are you daft?  YOUR position is that currency is money, and HELLO????  Currencies change in value every day.  You don't know what you're talking about but you have no chance talking to me.

[Br Cornelius]

questionmark, on 25 September 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

If these guys that dislike fiat currencies at least would try to base the value of currency on something tangible, like the average productivity of a worker, on the average factory output or on how many pounds of cheese is produced and consumed we would have something. But basing it on a insufficiently available commodity is about as smart as bringing a sword to a gun fight.

Fiat currency has an inbuilt flaw which makes it attractive for those who peddle it - it produces an income simply by controlling the supply. However that makes it intrinsically inflationary (in real terms) and that is on a compound basis - so its failure mechanism is built in. No Fiat currency has ever survived long term without periodic resets. They persist in resetting it because its the same old players creaming off the easy income.

That's playing us all for fools - and as you say some real tangable fixed baseline is the only way to build a real money supply that doesn't intrinsically destroy itself over a finite time span.

The secret would be to exclude the crooks who have been creaming the system for so long - but they have a sneaky way of selling their snake oil to a whole new set of fools.

Br Cornelius

[questionmark]

Yamato, on 25 September 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Are you daft?  YOUR position is that currency is money, and HELLO????  Currencies change in value every day.  You don't know what you're talking about but you have no chance talking to me.

No, I am not, but those who claim that a commodity is money because you can use it to barter should buy themselves a dictionary to learn the meanings if words.

Money is what is considered to be money.

[Br Cornelius]

Trying to make an arbitrary thing like gold into a currency is not a solution to the modern world. It is the central bank principle of fiat currency which is at fault. Create a baseline and hold the currency to it - all Fiat currencies would wither and die as a consequence. However gold is just an arbitrary yardstick which is in no way superior to the thing it attempts to replace and would lock poor countries into perpetual poverty.

Br Cornelius

[Yamato]

Br Cornelius, on 25 September 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Fiat currency has an inbuilt flaw which makes it attractive for those who peddle it - it produces an income simply by controlling the supply. However that makes it intrinsically inflationary (in real terms) and that is on a compound basis - so its failure mechanism is built in. No Fiat currency has ever survived long term without periodic resets. They persist in resetting it because its the same old players creaming off the easy income.

That's playing us all for fools - and as you say some real tangable fixed baseline is the only way to build a real money supply that doesn't intrinsically destroy itself over a finite time span.

The secret would be to exclude the crooks who have been creaming the system for so long - but they have a sneaky way of selling their snake oil to a whole new set of fools.

Br Cornelius

They're not selling anything to anybody but the central banksters they're printing for.   When did Americans vote for US monetary policy?   We didn't vote for Ben Bernanke.   The Fed isn't even the government any Keynesian circus clown will be the first to tell you that.   It's a quasi private cancerous growth and it ruins all common sense and just consequence in the marketplace.   You're not defending the middle class or the working man you're killing them!   Income???  Income on a balance sheet.  There's no value in a digital number on a screen.  There's value in goods and services which are only created by W.O.R.K.   Again, if creating real value were that simple, just print the money and stop working!   Don't be one of the fools you speak of and buy it for a second!

[questionmark]

Br Cornelius, on 25 September 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Trying to make an arbitrary thing like gold into a currency is not a solution to the modern world. It is the central bank principle of fiat currency which is at fault. Create a baseline and hold the currency to it - all Fiat currencies would wither and die as a consequence. However gold is just an arbitrary yardstick which is in no way superior to the thing it attempts to replace and would lock poor countries into perpetual poverty.

Br Cornelius

Not only poor countries, a world that grows by 88 million people a year cannot constrict its economic growth to a little over a trillion, and that is about the value of the new gold mined every year.