Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Do people believe in religion because they...

belief god truth evidence paranormal

  • Please log in to reply
147 replies to this topic

#61    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:54 PM

In order for a person to see a soul, one has to change one's destiny. One's life's pattern is keeping one in equalibrium, keeping one in this world. People, in general, seek out balance. The purpose of spirituality is for you to see the many patterns of your life and learn from them and not be victimized by them...and push forward. Thing is, everything in this world is, at same time, geared to get us out of this world. Yes, everyone will see a soul, but how long will it take? That's the question. Unfortunately, it takes a calamity or two for one to really change one's tightly-coiled destiny. Truth is, would you rather be victimized by your life's story, or would you rather have "guides" to help you go through the inevitableness of your ever-unfolding story and not fall back into that cycle of death and rebirth.

If, however, you are really itching to see a soul, there are many ways to do it, but you have to pay that price with your life. My way, at least, has love in the mix. Love is a relative term, however. To some, this love might seem brutal..., but it is what it is. "Thy will be done," right?

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#62    Beckys_Mom

Beckys_Mom

    Sarcastic Muppet..!

  • Member
  • 51,196 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ireland

  • "I hate pretentious people. I mean, what is the point in applying exorbitantly extensive vocabulary, it is just straightforwardly unnecessary".

Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 11 July 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

If, however, you are really itching to see a soul, there are many ways to do it, but you have to pay that price with your life. My way, at least, has love in the mix. Love is a relative term, however. To some, this love might seem brutal..., but it is what it is. "Thy will be done," right?

So you cannot present a soul to be seen...you say  if we want to really see one for real.. wait until we die ...?     That  right here and now  does not prove a thing about a soul...  The soul of a perosn  is part of a beleif...not fact that all can   ( while still living )  can see and observe ...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 11 July 2012 - 11:44 PM.

Posted ImageRAW Berris... Dare you enter?

If there's a heaven...I hope to hell I get there !

#63    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:04 AM

It's a fact because you are "awareness," or soul.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#64    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:06 AM

Just like death, it's always there. And death is part of all religions.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#65    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:16 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 11 July 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

If you can seriously show souls for real... I too want to see one...
Like I said, I'm the right person to ask -- no lie. It is right for me to congratulate you because you're on your way to finding out the truth. I, too, once asked for truth to be revealed. I can only say that I am so ever grateful.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#66    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:21 AM

...in spite of everything.

Edited by braveone2u, 12 July 2012 - 01:21 AM.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#67    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,172 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:55 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.
The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.
It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?

I have no problem with science and logic Absoluteyy essential tools and very useful But neither impinges on religous beliefs. Religion is not about "easy" Religious beliefs like al others are formed in at least 3 differnt ways First constructed in childhood to explain the inexplicable. Second taught by another or learned from others. And third,  logically inferred from ones own experiecnes as an adult.

Beliefs rarely invove evidences because beliefs for a logical/rational person must exist outside of evidenced knowledge Eg I can choose to believe in aliens or not because their presence is unproven. I cant chose to believe the world is flat because its obloid nature is known. I can chose to believe in a creator god if i build into that belief other beliefs to expalin the physical nature of the world as it is known to be. But i would need powerful reasons to bother doing this MAny peole have such powerful reaosn for belief They can be emotional psychological or logical.

Beliefs meet human needs Until you can alter those human needs you will have beliefs to meet them.  Dont knock it; it is an evoved system which works very effectively.

Where beleifs lead to actions which are harmful or destructive they may need to be controlled But otherwise any belief which is productive and creative is just  a part of human sapient slef awareness.It is part of our nature like logic. It allows us to be creative imaginative  and to do all the things which flow from those abilities like art music architecture  etc
Human beings are the most significant force in the universe, as far as we know at the present time. We have the potentials to  eventually reshape and recreate the universe to our imagination and will, through the use of our minds and our technologies No other proven entity (if you discount god) has this potential or ability.

If we could not believe this is so we could never accomplish it, but fortunately we are capable of belief, and so we have the opportunity to reshape ourselves, our world, and eventually our universe..

Ps science isnt hard. It just requires a ittle effort. And there are people quite capable of expalining pure science so that ordinary people an understans it, I have no problems with quantum mechanics brane theory or string theory, as scientific concepts even though i wil never understand the physics/maths behind them But i do know enogh science and maths to be able to calculate water flows drag how big a beam to use to support a load, and know why aeroplanes fly eor a television works.

Edited by Mr Walker, 12 July 2012 - 02:06 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#68    csspwns

csspwns

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 642 posts
  • Joined:07 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Francisco, CA

  • "Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."

Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.
The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.
It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?
You can get away with believing anything as long as you say God wants you too. Creationism: It's easier to do one chore than do a lot of hard ones. Science vs Religion = Evidence vs Faith. take your pick

"If god doesn't like the way I live, let him tell me, not you." "A believer is not a thinker and a thinker is not a believer." - Marian Noel Sherman, M.D.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."

#69    Euphorbia

Euphorbia

    Odd Plant Grower

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,269 posts
  • Joined:19 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere east of San Francisco

  • You can't just choose to believe something.

    Believing in something doesn't make it true.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:03 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 12 July 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

It's a fact because you are "awareness," or soul.

Define "Soul".

You seem to think that because we are "awareness" that we have a soul. I say a soul is a term that is entirely of religious construct. By your thinking (that awareness = soul), babies in the womb wouldn't have a soul as they are not aware. In fact newborns are not aware of much of anything either. Becoming aware is a process that everyone goes through in their journey from newborn to adult (Sadly some never become aware at a competent level in their lives.......the term I use for them is "Obliviot = an oblivious idiot.") They're everywhere and sadly we can't kill them.

There is that which makes us conscious. But does that equate to a soul? In my opinion no. When we die that's all she wrote....end of story. If you want to prove your soul theory and die to prove it........knock yourself out.

Get three coffins ready.

My mistake, four coffins.

Separation of corporation and state!

#70    Bluefinger

Bluefinger

    I am a Christian, and I understand many don't like that. .

  • Member
  • 4,822 posts
  • Joined:02 Sep 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minot, ND

  • "You'll know them by their fruits."

Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:29 AM

View PostTimonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

I don't think its either.  That seems like you are setting the conditions for how people interpret their experiences and drawing results based on their religious background.  It's not so cut and dry and is a rather unfair generalization.  But for the sake of finding truth, I will engage in dialogue with you on this one.

Quote

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

And isn't atheism a very convenient avenue to turn to for those who are wealthy and well off?  I guess if there is no deity, then there is no obligation to care for the poor, fight in a war, stop looking at porn, and question the sacredness of marriage.  I could say that atheism could just be what people resort to when they want their lives to themselves.  This hole can get deeper, but I think I'll leave at this:  There is a worldview behind what you are saying that I'm suspecting that you haven't given as much criticism to as you have other worldviews.

Quote

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.

But if there is no God, then there is no consequence to how well or how poorly we live our lives.  You can't justify to someone else that they should value your life or their own for that matter based on the argument of rationality.  If anything, a man can take your worldview to the extremes (as can happen with any belief) and use it to justify their exploitation of other peoples' fundamental rights and humanity.  The pendulum swings both ways.  Those that you consider 'logical' are not excluded.

Quote

The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

Like what?  And why is that important?

Quote

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

I think not.  I don't see anything easy about abstaining from sex until marriage, holding back curse words, praying for others, dedicating your life to the service of the poor, studying the Bible, facing ridicule from the culture at large, and much more attached to religious life.  It actually seems more difficult to me.  That is why I believe it is not so cut and dry as to why people believe in God.

Quote

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?
  Do you mean to say that your life has gotten harder by not believing in God?  And if so, do you really think it is harder than the lives of religious people?

Quote

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I don't know what you mean.  There is nothing in science that says anything about God.  Science says that humans evolve.  It doesn't say that life has meaning.  It doesn't say that there is no such thing as Spirit and Love.  All these things are derived from our upbringing, education, and experiences.  It is not cut and dry and I don't think it is fair for you to make such blanket statements concerning these things.

It really seems like this is a response to a particular group of people that you have had an unpleasant experience with, and as such, I think you should specify exactly who and direct your comments to them.  I think you'll get your answers a lot quicker.

Quote

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.

I don't think he'll warmly accept you calling him a deceiver, so you might want to strike that comment from your script, but I do think that he'll understand your honesty and determination to know what is true.  Even the Bible seems to indicate that those who don't know better are held to less of judgment than those who do know better but contradict that knowledge.  In this case, the Bible is far more critical of God's people than of unbelievers.

I ask that you take that heavily into consideration in the future, for the sake of our dialogue.  That way we can get on to more productive discussions rather than gripe about what offends us about somebody else's worldview.

Quote

It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

I agree.  That doesn't affect my belief in God one bit.

Quote

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.
  That doesn't justify not looking for them.  Just as atheists accuse proponents of intelligent design of using the 'gap theory' to use God to explain gaps in scientific knowledge, I think that atheists should hold themselves to the same exact standard when it comes to all kinds of truth, including metaphysical and spiritual truth.

Quote

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?

I can't.  Because you are only talking about Western logic.  If the Roman Empire had fallen to the Mohammedans, we would not be having this discussion at all...at least in public.  Logic is as good as the logician because it is the interpretation of reality and how to live in by the logician, whom is not segregated from his upbringing, education, and experiences.  Again, in the grand scheme things for the atheist, in reality, it doesn't really matter whether someone lives long or kills himself as a child.  We will all die, so it makes no difference how well or how bad someone's life was.  (I'm saying this to indicate how seriously twisted someone can make your own belief.)  That is the potential of your belief, whether that is how you feel or not.  It isn't about comfort, right?   The fact that you are arguing your belief is a contradiction to your belief because your belief has no grounds but logic.  And death spits in the face of logic because it conquers every logical and illogical person in the end.

This isn't an easy, cut and dry, dialogue where you pompously exert your philosophy and ridicule others for believing differently because they are unable to justify their beliefs to you.  I think it only fair to criticize your own belief as much as you criticize others.  Because your belief is just as open to criticism as anyone's.

Edited by Bluefinger, 12 July 2012 - 03:36 AM.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#71    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:18 AM

View PostEuphorbia, on 12 July 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Define "Soul".

You seem to think that because we are "awareness" that we have a soul. I say a soul is a term that is entirely of religious construct. By your thinking (that awareness = soul), babies in the womb wouldn't have a soul as they are not aware. In fact newborns are not aware of much of anything either. Becoming aware is a process that everyone goes through in their journey from newborn to adult (Sadly some never become aware at a competent level in their lives.......the term I use for them is "Obliviot = an oblivious idiot.") They're everywhere and sadly we can't kill them.

There is that which makes us conscious. But does that equate to a soul? In my opinion no. When we die that's all she wrote....end of story. If you want to prove your soul theory and die to prove it........knock yourself out.
There's a difference between awareness versus "awareness." "Awareness" is that consciousness after the body is dead, not just in this material plane of existence. Think all you want: after one dies, it's not the end of one's "awareness." Without repeating the length of my past posts, and without going into "awakening," the ever-unfolding story of your life is absolutely NOT the same as your "awareness." I don't have to prove it to myself because I know, for a fact...and you don't.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#72    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,165 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:28 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 12 July 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

There's a difference between awareness versus "awareness." "Awareness" is that consciousness after the body is dead, not just in this material plane of existence. Think all you want: after one dies, it's not the end of one's "awareness." Without repeating the length of my past posts, and without going into "awakening," the ever-unfolding story of your life is absolutely NOT the same as your "awareness." I don't have to prove it to myself because I know, for a fact...and you don't.


Your facts seem to be that of nothing of opinion. Death is death with nothing absalutlely nothing to support an after life. For example I`m of a nordic nature so will I go to
Valhalla


People don`t believe in that anymore. Why. Because another belief made another obsolete. Same as what will happen soon to the current ones.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#73    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:30 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 12 July 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Your facts seem to be that of nothing of opinion. Death is death with nothing absalutlely nothing to support an after life. For example I`m of a nordic nature so will I go to
Valhalla


People don`t believe in that anymore. Why. Because another belief made another obsolete. Same as what will happen soon to the current ones.
Have you actually died, not just a NDE?? Well, come back again and tell us all about it...and we'll compare notes. Sounds fair?

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#74    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,210 posts
  • Joined:16 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

  • (Christian) Gnosticism also has the Holy Spirit, Christ(os), Jesus, LOVE...and God.

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:33 AM

The core of religion hasn't changed since the day one. There's a reason for that.

https://www.youtube....ix3pVUX86yBWWzS  (playlist)

Distinguish between spin doctoring and truth. Keep in mind that truth is ALMOST impossible to figure out when it comes to ancient holy book.

#75    The Silver Thong

The Silver Thong

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 30,165 posts
  • Joined:02 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Calgary Alberta Canada

Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:36 AM

What a long ranting post to try to state your beliefe is right. Take a second to think they are all wrong and man made for agenda. If god was about the human race he would be able to show he was about the human race. He has failed in every possible way.

sorry ment for Bluefinger

Edited by The Silver Thong, 12 July 2012 - 04:37 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?





Also tagged with belief, god, truth, evidence, paranormal

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users