[Merged] Proof of Heaven

[preacherman76]

He made a really good point that I had never thought of before. If this is simply a matter of unexplained brain activity, then why is it that the only people they meet in this altered conscienceness that they know, are all dead? You think it would be more likely that they would see people that they interact with everyday, then seeing people they only knew when they were children, ect ect. Very cool story.

[failturner25]

He made a really good point that I had never thought of before. If this is simply a matter of unexplained brain activity, then why is it that the only people they meet in this altered conscienceness that they know, are all dead? You think it would be more likely that they would see people that they interact with everyday, then seeing people they only knew when they were children, ect ect. Very cool story.

I dream of the deceased and my dead dogs sometimes without seeing anyone else, does that mean I was in heaven?

Anyway, how do we know he wasn't lying, lying is pretty easy to do nowadays, people fall for all sort of things.

[preacherman76]

I dream of the deceased and my dead dogs sometimes without seeing anyone else, does that mean I was in heaven?

Anyway, how do we know he wasn't lying, lying is pretty easy to do nowadays, people fall for all sort of things.

No, do you ever dream of people that are alive? I do. Ive dreamed of dead people as well. That certainly is brain activity. What he describes here is something totaly different.

Maybe he is lieing. There isnt anyway to say for certain. But dont cha wonder, even for a second, what if he isnt lieing?

[Shabd Mystic]

Shabd Mystic, there is no need to nearly die to encounter "heaven", the mystic sages agree you merely need to "die to the world".

I know that, lol. And you already know I know that. But what does that have to do with the Newsweek story?

[Shabd Mystic]

I don't agree with that as being proof of heaven or any kind of afterlife, it was just a weird experience. Just because he's a doctor doesn't mean he's right and has superior knowledge of this matter. He wasn't actually dead.

And you "know" this, why exactly?

[Shabd Mystic]

I dream of the deceased and my dead dogs sometimes without seeing anyone else, does that mean I was in heaven?

Anyway, how do we know he wasn't lying, lying is pretty easy to do nowadays, people fall for all sort of things.

He certainly wasn't lying about what happened to his brain to put him in the coma and his miraculous recovery from it. He certainly didn't plan out this elaborate hoax for months and then suddenly fall ill with a deadly disease that rendered him in a coma for a week. A disease he should never have recovered from, just so, "if" he miraculously survived he could pull of an elaborate hoax about what happened.

A guy who taught neurosurgery at Harvard for 17 years and no longer believed in God and then suddenly and inexplicably awakens from a coma doesn't usually develop an incredibly detailed and elaborate hoax about things that happened, especially when he knew that sharing his experiences would surely mean he would be laughed at and ridiculed by the vast majority of his peers.

[jugoso]

You may find this interesting. It´s a great talk, related to your topic and is very powerful and thought-provoking.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

[Super-Fly]

Yeah, sounds legit....

Back to making chess pieces from unicorn bones.

Thanks,

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

In the fall of 2008, however, after seven days in a coma during which the human part of my brain, the neocortex, was inactivated, I experienced something so profound that it gave me a scientific reason to believe in consciousness after death.

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My 'heaven' is the promise of merging with God(?) through the process of Nirvana. It is what I have come to realize after my last resurrection and doing a particular form of Siddha Yoga. There are times, however, when I go through the Sauron Complex (if one thinks of continuing or having a body again or reincarnating as being the actual Ring of Power, instead of plunging one's essense in the fires of Mount Doom, if you will). Merging is not as easy as one thinks, especially when good things are beginning to happen again. I tend to sweep the harshness of my life under the carpet and rationalize because the mind is capricious that way. Unfornately (or fortunately, depending one's state of mind) bad luck usually comes to remind me to enter 'heaven.'

[Bling]

And you "know" this, why exactly?

I didn't say I 'know' this, I was offering my opinion to the subject. One man's unproven experience does not give proof of heaven.

[Shabd Mystic]

You may find this interesting. It´s a great talk, related to your topic and is very powerful and thought-provoking.

http://www.ted.com/t...of_insight.html

I saw that a couple years ago after suffering a stroke myself and I have a copy on my hard drive. She was given a glimpse but I'm not sure if she understands what she was given. If she believes all that was a result of her "right brain" only, then she has yet to fully grasp what she has experienced. But I have never followed up on her to see if she was able to understand it fully, so I don't know.

It's definitely a moving and wonderful story and I hope that she is able to find what her insights are pointing her to.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I completely agree with you, Bling. It's a personal journey, besides. Everyone will have a chance to enter or not enter 'heaven.'

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

It's definitely a moving and wonderful story and I hope that she is able to find what her insights are pointing her to.

Well put, Shabd Mystic. One still has to piece together the puzzle...in my experience. Edited October 10, 2012 by braveone2u

[Shabd Mystic]

I didn't say I 'know' this, I was offering my opinion to the subject. One man's unproven experience does not give proof of heaven.

True. Proof can only be given to an individual. And that individual can never "prove" anything, one way or another, to anyone else. Only one who has "gone to heaven" and can go back any time he wants to can have the proof. And only one who can do this, and who as a result obtains the power to move mountains (and so much more), and who becomes "one with God," can ever "know." Meanwhile the rest of the world can just throw around their opinions, one way or another.

This doctor was given a "glimpse." A powerful glimpse, but still no more than a glimpse. He is merely at the starting point. (But after reading through his site I see that he understands that and has begun a meditation program in hopes of going well past this.) When he does finally manage to get absolute proof, he still will be unable to "prove" anything to anybody. Despite Newsweek's poor choice of a headline, heaven is something that can never be proven to "other people." Only those who go there can have proof, and this doctor, despite what he might believe, still has a very long way to go.

[scowl]

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.

In my situation, it's not about that. I wasn't ready to accept the destruction of my unique "awareness," not just my earthly consciousness. And it, the search for the reason why I should enter Nirvana, has been my goal in my current existence. I found that reason recently, and yet, the pull (of coming back to this world) is very strong, especially when good things are being to happen to me again. Peace. Edited October 10, 2012 by braveone2u

[Shabd Mystic]

If certain people have experienced heaven, why did they come back here? I guess it wasn't so great after all.

It is really funny to see how some others see all this. They "come back here" because they have no other choice. You'd understand that if you ever bothered to read any of the hundreds of reported, and closely studied, cases of NDE or mystics.

But who'd want to do that when you can instead just make a snide remark on an Internet message board to appear like you might actually understand more than the "fools" who have studied this or who actually have first-hand experience with this?

.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Shabd Mystic

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

In a way, it's one of the reasons why I enjoy The Lord of the Rings epic. Having a life is epic.

[preacherman76]

Certainly his experiance doesnt prove anything. However, being this guy seems to be credible his eye witness testimony holds water. Men have been convicted for life, or even put to death cause of the eyewitness accounts of less credible men. I for one cant just dismiss what he said. Especialy considering the extrodinary circumstance he found himself in. NTM how his story is similar to others who have had the same experiance. Including 4 to 5 % of folks who have suffered heart attacks.

[Shabd Mystic]

Certainly his experiance doesnt prove anything. However, being this guy seems to be credible his eye witness testimony holds water. Men have been convicted for life, or even put to death cause of the eyewitness accounts of less credible men. I for one cant just dismiss what he said. Especialy considering the extrodinary circumstance he found himself in. NTM how his story is similar to others who have had the same experiance. Including 4 to 5 % of folks who have suffered heart attacks.

And he is just the tip of a huge iceberg. The PDF I linked to talks about studies of thousands more like him, all who belonged to many different religions and many who were Atheists before it happened.

.

[Habitat]

He made a really good point that I had never thought of before. If this is simply a matter of unexplained brain activity, then why is it that the only people they meet in this altered conscienceness that they know, are all dead? You think it would be more likely that they would see people that they interact with everyday, then seeing people they only knew when they were children, ect ect. Very cool story.

I haven't read the whole article, did he claim to only encounter dead people ? Is this the norm for such experiences ? You are right, if it is indeed true, this is a most tantalizing aspect of the phenomenon.

[Shabd Mystic]

I haven't read the whole article, did he claim to only encounter dead people ? Is this the norm for such experiences ? You are right, if it is indeed true, this is a most tantalizing aspect of the phenomenon.

Yes, that is the norm. I am unaware of any of the thousands who have been studied claiming they saw or interacted with anyone known to be alive. That really is a VERY good point as he said.

[Habitat]

Yes, that is the norm. I am unaware of any of the thousands who have been studied claiming they saw or interacted with anyone known to be alive. That really is a VERY good point as he said.

I would say it is quite remarkable, if in fact the case.

[Shabd Mystic]

I would say it is quite remarkable, if in fact the case.

I can't say that I ever looked for that specific featured in the more than 250 cases that I, myself have read, but I am quite sure that had anyone mentioned seeing someone who they also saw or talked to when they "came back" I would have jumped all over it as obviously being a false case of anything having to do with "after death." Unless they were talking about seeing people right after they had supposedly died, which many report, such as doctors & nurses or ambulance attendants or anyone who was with them when they died.

Some also speak about "going up" through the ceiling and instantly traveling a great distance to view a loved one, but then they continue "upward" and they never again see anyone who is currently living. They also very rarely see any religious figure they happen to follow though they are ALL convinced they are in God's presence and He is always seen as "light." (Except in VERY rare cases this is true and I tend to believe the few that report otherwise have done so to make it fit their religious beliefs so as not to lose support among friends and relatives by admitting that "Jesus: or "Buddha" was a no-show.)

Some interpret a figure of light as having been Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad, etc., but they almost always say that it was a figure of light "who must have been _______." Most people do see many different people including dead friends or relatives, but many don't. Of course sometimes this is a very quick experience and some like the doctor's lasts much longer.

[preacherman76]

I haven't read the whole article, did he claim to only encounter dead people ? Is this the norm for such experiences ? You are right, if it is indeed true, this is a most tantalizing aspect of the phenomenon.

They were talking about that in the interview. Not only him, but it seems to be the case with all NDE experiances. Other then these guys talking about it, I have no way to verify that.