147 replies to this topic

[Beckys_Mom]

Paranoid Android, on 11 June 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Aww, thanks BM.  I'm glad you like my signature picture.  Someone here made it for me and fit it just perfectly for the forum, and I love them for it.  Off the top of my head, I can't recall who that was though.....

But I think Dash was speaking of his/her signature, the quote from Einstein about wisdom (unless the reference is to the other section of my signature about opinions, but wisdom seems a better idea ).

Lets just pretend he was talking about your signature  ...its the best   lol

[Dash--]

Paranoid Android, on 11 June 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Aww, thanks BM.  I'm glad you like my signature picture.  Someone here made it for me and fit it just perfectly for the forum, and I love them for it.  Off the top of my head, I can't recall who that was though.....

But I think Dash was speaking of his/her signature, the quote from Einstein about wisdom (unless the reference is to the other section of my signature about opinions, but wisdom seems a better idea ).

I'm a He.Yayyy,It's a boy!

Actually,the Paranoid Android robot is one of the coolest signatures I've seen.Your the first I've seen with it.

But the post was directed at your Ancient Hebrew proverb signature.

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion

Classic

[Paranoid Android]

Dash--, on 11 June 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I'm a He.Yayyy,It's a boy!

Actually,the Paranoid Android robot is one of the coolest signatures I've seen.Your the first I've seen with it.

But the post was directed at your Ancient Hebrew proverb signature.

A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion

Classic

In that case, Mr. Dash, I'm glad to say hi.  You've been around for a month it seems, so I hope it doesn't sound hollow when I say "WELCOME to the forums here, I hope you enjoy it"!

Thanks about the Android signature, there's a very special woman here who made it for me, and it seems to stick (even though I was never a fan of the movie itself, the books/radio show/tv-series make up for it and the signature works with that).

I honestly didn't pick you quoting the Hebrew proverb, I thought you were speaking of your Einstein quote - it seems to work quite well within the context of the discussion:

Wisdom is not a product of schooling,but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it.

Right back at ya - Classic!

[Viviana98]

Timonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

Strength of emotion is not evidence of the existence of a soul. There is no evidence, it's just another strange concept...

You had me at strength lol I like this, alot

[rimbaudelaire]

Timonthy, on 09 June 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

can't comprehend science/logic/reality, or want an easy explanation for everything?

Let's get serious.

Religion, the paranormal etc. are very convenient explanations for confusing things in our lives.

The ability to create illogical and unsupported explanations is one that we all posses. Any person can dream up their own fantastic solutions to things that may be otherwise explained by more logical means.
The only things that have ever been proven have been through scientific means. And once they're proven they don't seem as special anymore to the people who believed otherwise.

So:

Is it taking the easy way out by believing in religion or otherwise?

Does it make life easier neglecting evidence and blindly following unsubstantiated beliefs?

Are people just not willing to accept that the truths in science etc. are hard to understand and that we will never understand everything?

I'm willing to accept that there may be more to life, and if so I'll shake God (that's any God, belief system, or otherwise) by the hand at heavens gate, congratulate him on his ongoing grand deception, and he'll accept me for who I am because he will appreciate I've lived logically and had no evidence to support his existence.
It's actually pretty amazing to consider how insignificant we are in relation to everything that we know exists. And everything that we know, our knowledge of the extent of the universe, could be worth but a grain of sand in relation to what's really out there.

There are answers for everything. But we will never find them all.

Can you appreciate that everything could be possibly explained logically?

One of philosophy profs posed an "obvious" statement to my class concerning belief/faith and scientific "fact": "Both require the presumption that we know know until we don't know, until we know differently."

Certainly, religious belief is pure faith, yet so are many scientific facts (faith that they will always be true, observable, proven evidence). I don't think a list of scientific facts that were thought beyond question 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago that have since been proven false or wrong is necessary--unless someone wishes to argue otherwise.

I'm not sure if any of the "classifications" (believer, non-believer, agnostic) are "easier" than any other; they're all both easy and difficult, simple and complex.

Edited by rimbaudelaire, 10 July 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Darkwind]

I don't have a logical mind, I have a creative mind, so I can't explain everything logically, my brain doesn't work like that.   Seems like there is always something out there that takes me by surprise. The more i know the more I don't know.

[markdohle]

Quote

What interests me more is those Christians who do accept scientific findings. Those that accept modern cosmology, evolution and so forth. It seems to me that these things are incompatible with basic Christian beliefs. The belief in a perfect creation, the fall of man and Christ-given redemption. These things don't seem consistent with man emerging from purposeless interactions of matter.

Your statement deals with how you interrupt scientific findings, which is based on your beliefs, a Christian will also bring his beliefs when learning about the findings of science.  The whole point of Genesis was to point out that there is One God and creation began from the Word "Let there be light".  The Big Bang could have been that word.  Also the first proponent of the big bang was a Christian:

"Jesuit priest Georges Lemaitre, in 1927, first proposed the concept of an expanding universe, even deriving what would become known as Hubble's Law at the time.

Two years later Edwin Hubble showed that Lemaitre’s derivations were observable facts. This did not PROVE that the density of our Universe was once far larger than it is today, but made the eternally static universe of Einstein impossible to support."

Here is an article you might enjoy reading:  http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/january/32.62.html.


If you still don't understand that is ok, I think most of us are mysteries to each other.

peace
mark

Edited by markdohle, 10 July 2012 - 11:42 PM.

[Arbenol68]

markdohle, on 10 July 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

Here is an article you might enjoy reading:  http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/january/32.62.html.


If you still don't understand that is ok, I think most of us are mysteries to each other.

peace
mark

Thanks for that, Mark.

Here's a quote from the article:
"

[Evolution] may seem to us like a slow, inefficient, and even random process, but to God—who's not limited by space or time—it all came together in the blink of an eye. And for us who have been given the gift of intelligence and the ability to appreciate the wonders of the natural world that he created, to have now learned about this evolutionary creative process is a source of awe and wonder. I find these discoveries are completely compatible with everything I know about God through the Scriptures."

This is a perfect example of what I was meaning. He clearly accepts all the evidence for evolution but appears to be saying that God is directing it. If so, then this isn't actually unconditional acceptance of the theory. What he is supporting is a version of intelligent design. Evolutionary theory is very clear that there is no intent or goal, that exclusively natural processes can explain what we see - no need for external intervention. This, of course, doesn't rule it out. But it seems unnecessary to introduce an external agent where one was not needed.

It's like claiming that god intervenes every time you throw a ball to ensure that it follows the correct trajectory according to Newton's Laws.

If you accept evolutionary theory as stated, then you also accept that humans are an 'accident' of this process. If you believe that god made it so that humans would be an inevitable consequence of evolution, then this is intelligent design. You see why I feel this to be incompatible?

And, yes, I think we are all a bit mysterious to each other. Keeps it interesting.

Edited by Arbenol68, 11 July 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[VC-10]

I'm spiritual because I believe there is more "out there" than what we readily see and experience. To me the physical body is a vehicle for the soul. Where the soul goes after physical death I cannot say, but I do believe it goes somewhere or elsewhere. All of these notions were threatening to me and my beliefs when I was an atheist, but slowly I accepted them as being essential elements to a much larger puzzle.

[braveone2u]

Imaginarynumber1, on 09 June 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

I've done one of those (multiple times), but I don't see how that has anything to do with a soul. Can you produce one for me?

If you ask me the same question, I can produce one for you because I'm exactly the right person to ask. I, however, have my own rules to this game, and you must precisely follow them. Are you willing to risk all?

[Imaginarynumber1]

braveone2u, on 11 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

If you ask me the same question, I can produce one for you because I'm exactly the right person to ask. I, however, have my own rules to this game, and you must precisely follow them. Are you willing to risk all?

Is this like a Saw thing? Am I gonna have to cut my arm off or cut a key out of someone?
I'm game.

[braveone2u]

Imaginarynumber1, on 11 July 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Is this like a Saw thing? Am I gonna have to cut my arm off or cut a key out of someone?
I'm game.

Nah, it's not like a "Saw" thing. When you're really serious about it, you know how to contact me. I'm global.

[Imaginarynumber1]

braveone2u, on 11 July 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Nah, it's not like a "Saw" thing. When you're really serious about it, you know how to contact me. I'm global.

I'm serious. Show me a soul. I want to see one.

[braveone2u]

You don't sound serious enough for me. Again, I have my rules to this game. PM me.

Edited by braveone2u, 11 July 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

braveone2u, on 11 July 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

You don't sound serious enough for me. Again, I have my rules to this game. PM me.

If you can seriously show souls for real... I too want to see one...