91 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

The Ministry of Defence will no longer investigate UFO sightings after ruling there is “no evidence” they pose a threat to the UK despite a senior aviation official admitting the country is visited by one unidentified flying object a month

http://www.telegraph...-no-threat.html

[Hazzard]

Im ok with that.

[Zamor]

There isn't  a conflict in the above statement, MOD say "there is no evidence they pose a threat to the UK", that doesn't mean they don't believe there is a UFO a month visiting UK air space.
They just make the assessment that there is no threat, if this been going on for a long time and nothing has happenend yet I would say that it's nothing wrong with that assessment.

Zam

[TheMacGuffin]

Hazzard, on 19 August 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Im ok with that.

Of course you are.  That's also the official position of the U.s. government, which mainly means that they no longer collect UFO reports from the general public.

[zoser]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Of course you are.  That's also the official position of the U.s. government, which mainly means that they no longer collect UFO reports from the general public.

In other words the US and UK Governments are saying "Don't bother us any more with reports because we really don't know any more than you do.  They are too clever for us and we just don't know what we are dealing with'.

That is what their statements amount to.

[1963]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Of course you are.  That's also the official position of the U.s. government, which mainly means that they no longer collect UFO reports from the general public.

Of course Hazz, and the rest of his mob  will say "just fine" about the MOD's 'official' position on the UFO question!
But to tell you the truth Mac'...I can't say that i'm sad about the announcement myself!...for the simple reason that I have never thought that the 'UFO Desk' at Whitehall was anything more than a Front created solely to placate the general public's thirst for knowledge!..and that the real investigatory actions are, and always have been performed behind some Very Thick doors!

....£44,000. per year to finance the entirety of a major nation's X Files!...lol. ...There's no wonder that Nick Pope needs to cash in on the circuit!


Cheers buddy.

[TheMacGuffin]

zoser, on 19 August 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

In other words the US and UK Governments are saying "Don't bother us any more with reports because we really don't know any more than you do.  They are too clever for us and we just don't know what we are dealing with'.

That is what their statements amount to.

They know more than the general public, at least according to the evidence I saw.  They know that some of these UFOs are interplanetary, that some have crashed or been shot down, and have been studying the bodies and wreckage.  At the very least, they have been trying to imitate some of this technology, even though its hundreds or thousands of years ahead of ours.

What they tell the public about UFOs has always been very different from what's really going on behind the scenes, but that's true on just about every important issue.

One thing I don't know for certain is whether any covert "contacts" have occurred, although Robert Emenegger said that they had--with President Eisenhower--and that Nixon was also aware of this.  For some reason, Nixon was almost ready to reveal this, and came very close to doing so, at least according to Emenegger.  He was one of the few UFO researchers with the contacts and the luck to ever get close to the really sensitive information, although Donald Keyhoe and Len Stringfield did as well.

[TheMacGuffin]

1963, on 19 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Of course Hazz, and the rest of his mob  will say "just fine" about the MOD's 'official' position on the UFO question!
But to tell you the truth Mac'...I can't say that i'm sad about the announcement myself!...for the simple reason that I have never thought that the 'UFO Desk' at Whitehall was anything more than a Front created solely to placate the general public's thirst for knowledge!..and that the real investigatory actions are, and always have been performed behind some Very Thick doors!

....£44,000. per year to finance the entirety of a major nation's X Files!...lol. ...There's no wonder that Nick Pope needs to cash in on the circuit!

I think you're right, 1963, that the MOD desk was basically like Project Blue Book--a public relations show.  If these UFOs are what we think that are, and we have have plenty of statements from generals and high-level officials that they are, then someone has been spending a lot more than a mere 44,000 pounds on this problem.  For governments, that amount of money hardly gets noticed at all, not when they routinely deal with billions.  That tiny amount of money just pays for a guy with a desk and a telephone, but if the military and intelligence agencies really were as concerned about UFOs as the records indicate, even trying to shoot them down and taking them to secret locations to be studied, well, someone is spending a lot more money somewhere.

[zoser]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

They know more than the general public, at least according to the evidence I saw.  They know that some of these UFOs are interplanetary, that some have crashed or been shot down, and have been studying the bodies and wreckage.  At the very least, they have been trying to imitate some of this technology, even though its hundreds or thousands of years ahead of ours.

What they tell the public about UFOs has always been very different from what's really going on behind the scenes, but that's true on just about every important issue.

One thing I don't know for certain is whether any covert "contacts" have occurred, although Robert Emenegger said that they had--with President Eisenhower--and that Nixon was also aware of this.  For some reason, Nixon was almost ready to reveal this, and came very close to doing so, at least according to Emenegger.  He was one of the few UFO researchers with the contacts and the luck to ever get close to the really sensitive information, although Donald Keyhoe and Len Stringfield did as well.

When you say they know more, are you referring to the actual Government, or the black authorities?  You see I reckon if you sat Obama and Cameron at the same table I don't think you would learn an awful lot.  The same if you got a load of US Senators or the Whitehall bunch to talk.  I reckon there are 3 basic tiers:

1) The Governments (Aware of 5% facts)
2) CIA, MI6, and the security apparatus generally (Aware of 40% facts)
3) Black organisations (Area 51/S4) (Aware of 75% facts)

Would you agree vaguely with this?

Edited by zoser, 19 August 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[TheMacGuffin]

zoser, on 19 August 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

When you say they know more, are you referring to the actual Government, or the black authorities?  You see I reckon if you sat Obama and Cameron at the same table I don't think you would learn an awful lot.  The same if you got a load of US Senators or the Whitehall bunch to talk.  I reckon there are 3 basic tiers:

1) The Governments (Aware of 5% facts)
2) CIA, MI6, and the security apparatus generally (Aware of 40% facts)
3) Black organisations (Area 51/S4) (Aware of 75% facts)

Would you agree vaguely with this?

I'd put myself among the 40% bunch, or maybe not even that much, and I think that was just because I had happened to see a UFO and express an interest in the subject.  I never had any formal orders either verbally or in writing that concerned UFOs, although naturally I reported the one I saw, just like we were all told from our first day in the military that if anything happens "report it up your chain of command".  That's true with anything that happens, even if the only report is that nothing at all happened that day except normal routing, and in the Army, normal routine is all that's happening most of the time, "hurry up and wait", as they always said.

No one could ever identify the UFO I saw, and I assume it just kept going up the chain of command until it landed someplace where they dealt with those things, but I never heard any more about it, nor did I ever even receive any orders not to report it or talk about it.  On the contrary, it was just like it never happened at all and things went right back to normal.

If Richard Dolan's sources are correct, and I think they are, then all the aspects of the program that deal with UFO wreckage, bodies and contacts were spun off to highly classified organizations and contractors long ago, with the military maintaining a tight security lid over the whole thing.  Very few civilian politicians would ever want or need to know all the details of these programs, and as we know from Barry Goldwater, they were unable to find out even when they asked.  That was back in the 1950s and 1960s, so we can be sure that things have moved along quite a bit since that time.

[TheMacGuffin]

The military does regard civilians, especially civilian politicians, as sort of leaky blabbermouths who can't keep a secret, and this is true on every subject, not only UFOs.  On the other hand, the military can keep secrets for decades if it wants to.

One area where I disagree with Dolan is that the civilian contractors and subcontractors are really running the UFO program, but in my experience the military generally runs them, especially in classified work.  It tells them just what they need to know to get the job done, and never any more.  

My impression is that from very early on they really regarded some of these UFOs as a possible threat or hostile force, regardless of what they told the public, and thought they were right to keep it all secret and try to figure out some kind of defensive measures--if that was even possible.

[TheMacGuffin]

That makes me think of a metaphor that many UFOs records just go up and up and out of sight, like the UFOs themselves.  LOL

[lost_shaman]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

I think you're right, 1963, that the MOD desk was basically like Project Blue Book--a public relations show.  If these UFOs are what we think that are, and we have have plenty of statements from generals and high-level officials that they are, then someone has been spending a lot more than a mere 44,000 pounds on this problem.  For governments, that amount of money hardly gets noticed at all, not when they routinely deal with billions.  That tiny amount of money just pays for a guy with a desk and a telephone, but if the military and intelligence agencies really were as concerned about UFOs as the records indicate, even trying to shoot them down and taking them to secret locations to be studied, well, someone is spending a lot more money somewhere.

Or more likely... They are following the conclusions drawn from their own research. That 5 year 500,000 pound study that concluded most UFO's reported were UAP (Unknown Atmospheric Phenomena) which are a previously unknown form of atmospheric plasma phenomena. It's too bad the 'believers' don't read the report because it's fascinating, they say the Russians admit to losing at least 20 Pilots chasing UAP and that the French say that their Civil Aviation RADAR system can't if only rarely detect UAP but that their Military RADAR system routinely detects them! The report even explains why the Civil RADAR system doesn't detect UAP, it's in large part because UAP either move to slow or to fast to be Aircraft so the data is filtered out.

[zoser]

TheMacGuffin, on 19 August 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

The military does regard civilians, especially civilian politicians, as sort of leaky blabbermouths who can't keep a secret, and this is true on every subject, not only UFOs.  On the other hand, the military can keep secrets for decades if it wants to.

One area where I disagree with Dolan is that the civilian contractors and subcontractors are really running the UFO program, but in my experience the military generally runs them, especially in classified work.  It tells them just what they need to know to get the job done, and never any more.  

My impression is that from very early on they really regarded some of these UFOs as a possible threat or hostile force, regardless of what they told the public, and thought they were right to keep it all secret and try to figure out some kind of defensive measures--if that was even possible.

Remember this clip:




So if it was a projectile, where did it come from, who shot it, and how did they know what they were shooting at was hostile or friendly?  Did it come from Area 51?  I know that people have reported powerful beams being projected skyward in that area.  Maybe there is an official interception policy?

Edited by zoser, 20 August 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

I find this very improbable. So the MoD no longer investigates incursions into UK Airspace? Anyone think they just say this to stop them being hassled by Ufologists (or so they hope)?