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A manifesto for a good life?


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#31    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

Come on, folks, give me some credit.  Which would you rather be -- lucky all the time or smart all the time?  You have to compare apples to apples, not lucky sometimes but always smart.


#32    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

Come on, folks, give me some credit.  Which would you rather be -- lucky all the time or smart all the time?  You have to compare apples to apples, not lucky sometimes but always smart.
Well I answered as smart all the time and gave reasons why. Smart brings ancillary benefits and improves your abilities in everything. Luck does not.

You cant take credit for it, you didnt earn it, and so it is inferior to smarts. If you are smart enough, all the time, you simply won't have bad luck beause really there is no such thing  Be smart enough and you will avoid every pitfall which others attribute to "bad luck" Also, luck is responsive whereas smarts is proactive. You can use it to plan and work towards an aim or a goal. Luck wont put that aim or goal in your head to start with but smarts will. Having a million dollar win on a lottery  every week is useless if you dont have the wisdom to use it well and wisely. And luck is by nature fickle even if constant For example to have the most beautiful woman in the world fall in love with oyu might seem lucky but is it really One wil have to wait and see. Winning a humdred million dollars might also seem lucky but is it? How will it effect how you feel, your motivaitons and desires? Will it prevent you continung in a fairly mundane job which might eventually have brought you great success, pride and  respect.


I think a perpetually lucky person would also require the good fortune to be perpetually deluded about the reality of their life and wh t made them happy As another example a man could be always happy in life but only because he was mentally immature  or unaware  consisder happness to be a supreme goal but not under such conditions, It must be self aware, chosen or self constructed, or informed happiness, to counted as such.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#33    Beany

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:02 AM

View Postpantodragon, on 28 March 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

When I see a trunk emerging from a bush, I know there's an elephant in there.  I don't need to see the rest of the animal.  In other words, there are certain identifying features which allow one to recognise the nature of the beast --- you supplied the identifying features.

Meh, there's no talking to you, you don't want a conversation, you want a fight, and you want to be right. I'll just get out of your way.


#34    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:13 AM

Mr. Walker, you make some good points.  I think I have gotten in the habit over my life of saying I prefer luck over smarts as a sort of humility.  When something goes well, it can be because you did it intelligently or because you were lucky.  The truth may be the former but its smart to credit the latter.


#35    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:31 AM

Luck is having 60 million sperm swarm one egg and your it. Luck is hand picking the lotto numbers and winning the rest is just happentance. Is chance also called luck.   I see a guy hit by a car is in the hospital for 3 months to a year and I call that unlucky and some might say it was lucky they lived. Luck is but percpective. Was I lucky to live as a quadrapalegic or was I unlucky to be hit by that car.

Edited by The Silver Thong, 29 March 2013 - 05:31 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#36    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 March 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Mr. Walker, you make some good points.  I think I have gotten in the habit over my life of saying I prefer luck over smarts as a sort of humility.  When something goes well, it can be because you did it intelligently or because you were lucky.  The truth may be the former but its smart to credit the latter.
Why? is that a cultural value? Is being smart seen as inferior or less accpetable to being lucky?

. I know that in, Astrlaia we tend to look down on smart people. while putting sports people on a pedestal  One should be truthful not modest or immodest when things work because of  natural ability combined with intelligence effort discipline etc. One should acknolwedge this.  I am samrt and glad I am smart. It would be more accpetable in my culture to be a succesful sportsperson, and i do understand the discipline and effort that goes into such success, but to me, being the best i can be is important and what I expect from myslef. It is important because it, (being smart and capable) allows me to do more for my community and for other people around the world.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#37    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:38 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 March 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

Luck is having 60 million sperm swarm one egg and your it. Luck is hand picking the lotto numbers and winning the rest is just happentance. Is chance also called luck.   I see a guy hit by a car is in the hospital for 3 months to a year and I call that unlucky and some might say it was lucky they lived. Luck is but percpective. Was I lucky to live as a quadrapalegic or was I unlucky to be hit by that car.
Lol. lots of guys would say your first example was very bad luck. :devil: Is there any such thing as chance? Police in my state teach kids that there is no such thing as a road accident  because almost every such incident could have been avoided with a little thought and care before hand. Its not an accident when you are speeding and crash, or too tired and crash, or drunk/drugged and crash.  It is a consequence of preventable behaviours. Perhaps the only true road accident is where a person has a heart attack  or similar at the wheel, despite apparent good health, and those in my state are not counted among traffic accidents or deaths/injuries

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#38    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:47 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Lol. lots of guys would say your first example was very bad luck. :devil: Is there any such thing as chance? Police in my state teach kids that there is no such thing as a road accident  because almost every such incident could have been avoided with a little thought and care before hand. Its not an accident when you are speeding and crash, or too tired and crash, or drunk/drugged and crash.  It is a consequence of preventable behaviours. Perhaps the only true road accident is where a person has a heart attack  or similar at the wheel, despite apparent good health, and those in my state are not counted among traffic accidents or deaths/injuries

The only possible way to avoid such accidients would be for us to have a hive mind. The only people that want us to believe that things happen out of our control are insurance companys and god. Both are based on the same princible sinning can`t be a mistake nore can driver error an error. Both are forgiven are they not as long as we have faith.

Your police may teach there is no such thing as a mistake and they would be 100% wrong. Yet god forgives us all of 100% of our mistakes as long as we accept Jessus.

I could also add over 500 cops making mistakes that they teach should not happen in less then 20 min. All made by cops

Edited by The Silver Thong, 29 March 2013 - 05:49 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#39    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:51 AM

I consider myself highly intelligent, and have the academic and career credentials and financal success to prove it.  Still, here I sit pretty much confined to my house with diabetes and heart disease and chronic hepatitis B (widespread in Vietnam).  Right now I could stand some luck.  I learned early on in my career never to mention my degrees, or the languages I speak, and so on.  When people would comment, say, on my English, I would just say that I was lucky to have an English teacher for a father and was fortunate to be able to go to univeristy in the States (although I chose, perhaps not so wisely but emotionally, to return to Vietnam when war began).

Is this false humility?  I suppose, but it is also just being smart, and, more important, not being arrogant.


#40    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:58 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I consider myself highly intelligent, and have the academic and career credentials and financal success to prove it.  Still, here I sit pretty much confined to my house with diabetes and heart disease and chronic hepatitis B (widespread in Vietnam).  Right now I could stand some luck.  I learned early on in my career never to mention my degrees, or the languages I speak, and so on.  When people would comment, say, on my English, I would just say that I was lucky to have an English teacher for a father and was fortunate to be able to go to univeristy in the States (although I chose, perhaps not so wisely but emotionally, to return to Vietnam when war began).

Is this false humility?  I suppose, but it is also just being smart, and, more important, not being arrogant.

I have to say In the short time I have followed your posts you have me hanging on the next one. I care little about your education let alone where you are from. I suffer from a few things that hold me back from expressing myself fully and from your posts I can tell you are far more educated than me. I myself more orless express opinion.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#41    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:26 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

The only possible way to avoid such accidients would be for us to have a hive mind. The only people that want us to believe that things happen out of our control are insurance companys and god. Both are based on the same princible sinning can`t be a mistake nore can driver error an error. Both are forgiven are they not as long as we have faith.

Your police may teach there is no such thing as a mistake and they would be 100% wrong. Yet god forgives us all of 100% of our mistakes as long as we accept Jessus.

I could also add over 500 cops making mistakes that they teach should not happen in less then 20 min. All made by cops
All statistical studies, including the very detailed work done on every fatal and serious road accident in australia show that almost every  'road accident" was preventable, and was caused by humans not  acting very intelligently. Working on that basis we have consistently reduced road accidents and fatalities/serious injuries.

I am not a religious man so i wont comment on your religious allegory about sin, but as a humanist I KNOW that humans can stop their destructive behaviours  No one has to drink and drive go above the speed limit or drive when tired (the causes of about 80% of all australian road accidents.We all have built in abilities to discipline and control our selves and to make logical sensible decisions. Any other belief is a cop out which tries to deny human repsonsibilty for all our flaws and failings as individuals and a race. The prime responsibility of a human being is to recognise and accepet responsibilty for every action they take, and not blame another, or circumstance,like rain fog etc., or loss of emotional control etc. Such excuses are pathetic and unacceptable.  They are certainly unacceptable under australian law. If you are capable of getting a driver's licence, you have to be mature and responsible enough not to drive when it is dangerous, or when you are not completely capable of doing so safely. If you cant manage that everytime you drive, then you should be locked up or stopped from driving before you kill or injure someone else, Because inevitably, given  time, if you drive like that, you will do so.

(you  in this post doesn't refer to you personally but is used generically)

I dont know about  god, but our police won't  forgive your contribution to any road  incident, however much you might think it was all an "accident". They will, with mathematical precision, explain to you how your driving contributed to the crash, and how you could have prevented it with a different attitude and approach to your driving, cycling, or walking, on the road.

For example a growing number of pedestrians are killed crossing roads and train tracks wearing an ear bud. Such behaviour CAUSES "accidents", and many "accidents" could be prevented if people could hear the environment around them. This also applies to loud music and the use of telephones  while driving a car.

Edited by Mr Walker, 29 March 2013 - 06:38 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#42    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

All statistical studies, including the very detailed work done on every fatal and serious road accident in australia show that almost every  'road accident" was preventable, and was caused by humans not  acting very intelligently. Working on that basis we have consistently reduced road accidents and fatalities/serious injuries.

I am not a religious man so i wont comment on your religious allegory about sin, but as a humanist I KNOW that humans can stop their destructive behaviours  No one has to drink and drive go above the speed limit or drive when tired (the causes of about 80% of all australian road accidents.We all have built in abilities to discipline and control our selves and to make logical sensible decisions. Any other belief is a cop out which tries to deny human repsonsibilty for all our flaws and failings as individuals and a race. The prime responsibility of a human being is to recognise and accepet responsibilty for every action they take, and not blame another, or circumstance,like rain fog etc., or loss of emotional control etc. Such excuses are pathetic and unacceptable.  They are certainly unacceptable under australian law. If you are capable of getting a driver's licence, you have to be mature and responsible enough not to drive when it is dangerous, or when you are not completely capable of doing so safely. If you cant manage that everytime you drive, then you should be locked up or stopped from driving before you kill or injure someone else.


So what would you say if I added into the equation simple human error or is that not in the equation. Mechanical errors equate to humman errors. To say an accident or human error never should happen you better start a movement of 3 people and see how far that goes.  We are ment to error and learn from it and if you think we can see the future to prevent all accidents unless you see them as ententianal accidiendts start a law that prevents mistakes and halt everything that moves.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#43    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 March 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

So what would you say if I added into the equation simple human error or is that not in the equation. Mechanical errors equate to humman errors. To say an accident or human error never should happen you better start a movement of 3 people and see how far that goes.  We are ment to error and learn from it and if you think we can see the future to prevent all accidents unless you see them as ententianal accidiendts start a law that prevents mistakes and halt everything that moves.
Define human error?  No I do not accept that humans are "meant to " make mistakes. A mistake is just that, an action which is not correct. Most mistakes can be avoided with a little thought and care Eg driving while drunk, tired, or distracted is a mistake, and often fatal. And all 3 are TOTALLY avoidable. It just depends wha tdecisions you make but no one EVER has to drive while tired or drunk or distracted..

Staying in a car where the driver is drunk or speeding is a mistake and a stupid one. Young people (14 plus) are being taught strategies to be able to succesfully exit from a car where a mate is drunk or angry and driving.  The most successful is, "Stop mate, I feel really crook and I'm about to puke." Most young men dont like the idea of their car being filled with vomit and so will stop, allowing you to  exit the vehicle with a good excuse..
I guess what I (and the police) are saying is that, yes a lot of accidents (almost all in fact) are due to human error, but that all "human error" is preventable by its very nature. There are a very few true accidents due to mechanical failure but many of these are also preventable eg by having decent tyres and maintaining your vehicle. Even if a fly flies into your eye, if you are driving to the conditions around you, then you should be able to  avoid an accident, or at least minimise its effects.

25 January 2012




In 2011, Australia recorded the lowest number of road deaths since 1946, down to about a third of the deaths recorded at the peak in 1970. Over the past 10 years annual fatalities on Australian roads have fallen by almost 26 per cent.



http://www.minister....ck001_2012.aspx

5. Unintended driver error, excessive speed and alcohol or drugs remained the three most frequently recorded major factors in fatal crashes throughout the last two decades.

http://www.bitre.gov...iles/is_041.pdf

Edited by Mr Walker, 29 March 2013 - 07:03 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#44    The Silver Thong

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 29 March 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Define human error?  No I do not accept that humans are "meant to " make mistakes. A mistake is just that, an action which is not correct. Most mistakes can be avoided with a little thought and care Eg driving while drunk, tired, or distracted is a mistake, and often fatal. And all 3 are TOTALLY avoidable. It just depends wha tdecisions you make but no one EVER has to drive while tired or drunk or distracted..

Staying in a car where the driver is drunk or speeding is a mistake and a stupid one. Young people (14 plus) are being taught strategies to be able to succesfully exit from a car where a mate is drunk or angry and driving.  The most successful is, "Stop mate, I feel really crook and I'm about to puke." Most young men dont like the idea of their car being filled with vomit and so will stop, allowing you to  exit the vehicle with a good excuse..

Get past the drinking and driving and tell us you have never made human error or that you made a mistake and I will call you a flat out lier. To err is human and if not for the million mistakes we have made we would have no progress. Just think if it wasn`t for the invention of indoor plumbing that the Romans invented you might be wiping your ass with your left hand.


I will bet you right know in the last few years I have known you the internet and cell phones has increaced your moralality. Don`t lie it has.

What makes a good life Mr.Walker

Edited by The Silver Thong, 29 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#45    Mr Walker

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:18 AM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 29 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Get past the drinking and driving and tell us you have never made human error or that you made a mistake and I will call you a flat out lier. To err is human and if not for the million mistakes we have made we would have no progress. Just think if it wasn`t for the invention of indoor plumbing that the Romans invented you might be wiping your ass with your left hand.


I will bet you right know in the last few years I have known you the internet and cell phones has increaced your moralality. Don`t lie it has.

What makes a good life Mr.Walker

I make very few errors and mostly minor ones. In 45 years of driving I have had 3 speeding tickets and a total of about 2000 dollars of accidental damage to the cars I drive. So i am not perfect, but if everyone drove that well, there would be no fatal accidents no serious injuries, and no need for a huge insurance industry in Australiaand before you ask i drive every day of the week and average  20000 to 30000 kilometres every year. I have driven from one side of Australia to the other and from bottom to top and back again, and  only had a broken window from a thrown up stone.

I have hit a cow let out onto a rainy road on a dark night, a dog and several kangaroos. I have had near misses with horses reindeer and many other animals.  Some of these were avoidable. if i had been really careful (although it is hard to do anything about a big buck kangaroo jumping out of the bush onto your car at night tim,e)  but in general i survived because i was driving within my own limitations and the conditios a tthe time eg when i hit the cow i was only doing about 50 k on a highway because it was wet and visibilty was poor.  According to the crash investigators, If id been going  10 ks faste r i could easily have been killed or badly injured. I was driving an army landrover with big bull bars which were crumpled right back into the vehicle, and it was forced into a 180 degree turn as i drove down the road. When I hit the big kangaroo on a local dirt road i was only doing about 40 ks for the same reasons and so, despite the kangaroo landing in our laps, we avoided injury.

One doesnt have to make ones own mistakes to improve and learn. One can learn from the previous mistakes of others  I dont even comprehend your last point

Edited by Mr Walker, 29 March 2013 - 07:19 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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