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The Coming Middle East War


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#76    and then

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 27 February 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

You should read the post directly before yours, Ogbin. It's actually comical that your post came directly after his.
I can see why you would find irony or humor there Ex but I have a question.  Do you understand why he might feel the way he does about Iran?  What I am asking is, can you see the other side of the argument even if you think it is invalid or does it seems so ridiculous to you that you dismiss it without investigation?  For example, are you familiar with "TWELVER" doctrine in Shia Islam?  Are you aware that A'jad and Khamanei and many of the ruling religious council (the real power) subscribe to these beliefs?  I personally do not think they are so driven purely by religion that they would sacrifice their own lives by attempting to nuke Israel but having such an extreme ideology so entwined within the power structure could cause major problems unintentionally during times of crisis.  Just wondering if rational discussion can still be had on these issues.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#77    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:15 AM

View Postand then, on 28 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I can see why you would find irony or humor there Ex but I have a question.  Do you understand why he might feel the way he does about Iran?  What I am asking is, can you see the other side of the argument even if you think it is invalid or does it seems so ridiculous to you that you dismiss it without investigation?  For example, are you familiar with "TWELVER" doctrine in Shia Islam?  Are you aware that A'jad and Khamanei and many of the ruling religious council (the real power) subscribe to these beliefs?  I personally do not think they are so driven purely by religion that they would sacrifice their own lives by attempting to nuke Israel but having such an extreme ideology so entwined within the power structure could cause major problems unintentionally during times of crisis.  Just wondering if rational discussion can still be had on these issues.

The Twelvers belief concerning the Mahdi is one that seems to disturbs many people.

Perhaps the idea of Jesus Christ walking alongside the Mahdi and bringing a perfect world before the Day of the Resurrection is just too evil to comprehend.

The role of Imam al-Mahdi

Main article: Muhammad al-Mahdi
See also: Mahdi
In Twelver eschatology, Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn ʻAlī, or al-Mahdi (مهدي transliteration: Mahdī, also Mehdi, "Guided One"), is the twelfth Imam and the Mahdi, the ultimate savior of mankind and prophesied redeemer of Islam. Twelvers believe that the Mahdi has been hidden by God (referred to as The Occultation) and will later emerge to change the world into a perfect and just Islamic society alongside Jesus (Isa) before the Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally "Day of the Resurrection" or "Day of the Standing").
Other Shi'a schools, such as Zaidi, Ismaili and Bohra, adhere to different Imam successions and, along with some Sunnis, do not consider Muhammad ibn Hasan the Mahdi as Imam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

Edited by WHO U KIDDIN, 01 March 2013 - 04:16 AM.


#78    and then

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:48 AM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 01 March 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

The Twelvers belief concerning the Mahdi is one that seems to disturbs many people.

Perhaps the idea of Jesus Christ walking alongside the Mahdi and bringing a perfect world before the Day of the Resurrection is just too evil to comprehend.

The role of Imam al-Mahdi

Main article: Muhammad al-Mahdi
See also: Mahdi
In Twelver eschatology, Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn ʻAlī, or al-Mahdi (مهدي transliteration: Mahdī, also Mehdi, "Guided One"), is the twelfth Imam and the Mahdi, the ultimate savior of mankind and prophesied redeemer of Islam. Twelvers believe that the Mahdi has been hidden by God (referred to as The Occultation) and will later emerge to change the world into a perfect and just Islamic society alongside Jesus (Isa) before the Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally "Day of the Resurrection" or "Day of the Standing").
Other Shi'a schools, such as Zaidi, Ismaili and Bohra, adhere to different Imam successions and, along with some Sunnis, do not consider Muhammad ibn Hasan the Mahdi as Imam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 01 March 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

The Twelvers belief concerning the Mahdi is one that seems to disturbs many people.

Perhaps the idea of Jesus Christ walking alongside the Mahdi and bringing a perfect world before the Day of the Resurrection is just too evil to comprehend.

The role of Imam al-Mahdi

Main article: Muhammad al-Mahdi
See also: Mahdi
In Twelver eschatology, Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn ʻAlī, or al-Mahdi (مهدي transliteration: Mahdī, also Mehdi, "Guided One"), is the twelfth Imam and the Mahdi, the ultimate savior of mankind and prophesied redeemer of Islam. Twelvers believe that the Mahdi has been hidden by God (referred to as The Occultation) and will later emerge to change the world into a perfect and just Islamic society alongside Jesus (Isa) before the Yaum al-Qiyamah (literally "Day of the Resurrection" or "Day of the Standing").
Other Shi'a schools, such as Zaidi, Ismaili and Bohra, adhere to different Imam successions and, along with some Sunnis, do not consider Muhammad ibn Hasan the Mahdi as Imam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver
I'm not sure what you mean here.  But if it is an allusion to Christ returning with the Mahdi, so Christians possibly have nothing to worry over, then I respectfully suggest you read a bit more of the description of what Isa is scheduled to accomplish when he arrives.  He denies his own Godhead.  He denies the trinity, the crucifixion and becomes an enforcer for Islam - converting Christians and Jews or killing them in their masses when they refuse to.  To paraphrase the Bible - John, I believe: Who is antichrist?  He that denies the son and the father.  No, the Muslim Jesus is clearly NOT the Jesus of the Bible.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#79    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

View Postand then, on 01 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean here.  But if it is an allusion to Christ returning with the Mahdi, so Christians possibly have nothing to worry over, then I respectfully suggest you read a bit more of the description of what Isa is scheduled to accomplish when he arrives.  He denies his own Godhead.  He denies the trinity, the crucifixion and becomes an enforcer for Islam - converting Christians and Jews or killing them in their masses when they refuse to.  To paraphrase the Bible - John, I believe: Who is antichrist?  He that denies the son and the father.  No, the Muslim Jesus is clearly NOT the Jesus of the Bible.
Lying and then starving people because of those lies is what's anti-Christ.  That's denying what Jesus Christ taught you to do.   If you believe in Him but refuse to listen, that's the worst form of denial there is.   People who support that kind of evil are not followers of the Christian Jesus in the Bible.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#80    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:12 PM

View Postand then, on 01 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean here.  But if it is an allusion to Christ returning with the Mahdi, so Christians possibly have nothing to worry over, then I respectfully suggest you read a bit more of the description of what Isa is scheduled to accomplish when he arrives.  He denies his own Godhead.  He denies the trinity, the crucifixion and becomes an enforcer for Islam - converting Christians and Jews or killing them in their masses when they refuse to.  To paraphrase the Bible - John, I believe: Who is antichrist?  He that denies the son and the father.  No, the Muslim Jesus is clearly NOT the Jesus of the Bible.


According to Wiki ISA (Jesus) along with the Mahdi will slay the Antichrist and his followers and unite all those who truly believe in GOD awaiting for The Day of the Resurrection. The Mahdi then dies and Jesus reigns over the earth in an era of universal peace and justice.

Similar to what the Christian NT Revelations reveal, except of course for the role of the Mahdi.

Sure sounds like the Biblical Jesus Christ, the man of PEACE and LOVE, perhaps I'm not reading the right version of the Bible, you know the one that preaches hate and death instead.  



Jesus in Islam

In Islam, Jesus (Isa; Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus by name twenty-five times, while it only mentions Muhammad by name four times....

Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind...

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[6][8]....

According to Islamic tradition which describes this graphically, Jesus' descent will be in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi (lit. "the rightly guided one"), known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against the Antichrist (al-Masīh ad-Dajjāl, "False messiah") and his followers.[26] Jesus will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes—his head anointed. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Jesus, considered as a Muslim, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and then everyone from the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam....[27]

After the death of the Mahdi, Jesus will assume leadership. This is a time associated in Islamic narrative with universal peace and justice. Islamic texts also allude to the appearance of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (known also as Gog and Magog), ancient tribes which will disperse and cause disturbance on earth. God, in response to Jesus' prayers, will kill them by sending a type of worm in the napes of their necks.[26] Jesus' rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die. Muslims will then perform the funeral prayer for him and then bury him in the city of Medina in a grave left vacant beside Muhammad, Abu Bakr, and Umar (companions of Muhammad and the first and second Sunni caliphs (Rashidun) respectively).[6]

http://en.wikipedia..../Jesus_in_Islam


#81    justcalmebubba

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:49 PM

damn kids i swear take 3 brothers on one side of the street they gona fight about sum **** at sum point its just how thangs are  now that other kid across the way butts in yeah the 3 brothers are gona  kick his ass just for being there  its just how **** happens  in this case  no change  at sum point the whole damn block (world) will get draged in to it  and ww 3 is gona blow up  or ww4 or ww5  or so on as long as both or more think only they be right and the rest worng    so buckle up boy's and girls  this  me  bull **** been going on for generations   so its no realy big suprise just strap your ass down and hold on to the bar  cause its gona be one hell of a ride


#82    and then

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 01 March 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

According to Wiki ISA (Jesus) along with the Mahdi will slay the Antichrist and his followers and unite all those who truly believe in GOD awaiting for The Day of the Resurrection. The Mahdi then dies and Jesus reigns over the earth in an era of universal peace and justice.

Similar to what the Christian NT Revelations reveal, except of course for the role of the Mahdi.

Sure sounds like the Biblical Jesus Christ, the man of PEACE and LOVE, perhaps I'm not reading the right version of the Bible, you know the one that preaches hate and death instead.  



Jesus in Islam

In Islam, Jesus (Isa; Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[1] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus by name twenty-five times, while it only mentions Muhammad by name four times....

Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind...

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist).[6][8]....

According to Islamic tradition which describes this graphically, Jesus' descent will be in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi (lit. "the rightly guided one"), known in Islamic eschatology as the redeemer of Islam, against the Antichrist (al-Masīh ad-Dajjāl, "False messiah") and his followers.[26] Jesus will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes—his head anointed. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Jesus, considered as a Muslim, will abide by the Islamic teachings. Eventually, Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and then everyone from the People of the Book (ahl al-kitāb, referring to Jews and Christians) will believe in him. Thus, there will be one community, that of Islam....[27]

After the death of the Mahdi, Jesus will assume leadership. This is a time associated in Islamic narrative with universal peace and justice. Islamic texts also allude to the appearance of Ya'juj and Ma'juj (known also as Gog and Magog), ancient tribes which will disperse and cause disturbance on earth. God, in response to Jesus' prayers, will kill them by sending a type of worm in the napes of their necks.[26] Jesus' rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die. Muslims will then perform the funeral prayer for him and then bury him in the city of Medina in a grave left vacant beside Muhammad, Abu Bakr, and Umar (companions of Muhammad and the first and second Sunni caliphs (Rashidun) respectively).[6]

http://en.wikipedia..../Jesus_in_Islam
The biblical Christ is the Son of God.  He was given  as a sacrifice for all men's sin.  He was crucified and buried and three days later rose from the dead - all according to scripture.  He will return to the mount of Olives and will destroy the antichrist - not the "Dajjal".  If you read the bolded from your post you will note the DIAMETRIC opposition of the character of the two named "Jesus"  So I'm bewildered that you would equate them.  Muslims honor Isa as a prophet and everything you wrote about their belief in Him is the same that I am familiar with.  The apostle John wrote "who is antichrist?"  All who deny the Father and the Son.  So  contending that Isa and Jesus are the same is problematic at best.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#83    and then

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

View Postjustcalmebubba, on 01 March 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

damn kids i swear take 3 brothers on one side of the street they gona fight about sum **** at sum point its just how thangs are  now that other kid across the way butts in yeah the 3 brothers are gona  kick his ass just for being there  its just how **** happens  in this case  no change  at sum point the whole damn block (world) will get draged in to it  and ww 3 is gona blow up  or ww4 or ww5  or so on as long as both or more think only they be right and the rest worng so buckle up boy's and girls  this  me  bull **** been going on for generations   so its no realy big suprise just strap your ass down and hold on to the bar  cause its gona be one hell of a ride
What HE said  :w00t:

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#84    Yamato

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:18 PM

And in other news, the Iranians are no longer suffering from sanctions on this board!   The anti-semitism card got played, and the discussion got successfully derailed.  Congratulations zionists.  :tu:

It's of utmost importance for those who are biased in a politically unpopular way to remain politically correct at all times:

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#85    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:07 PM

Yam, It appears that as long as the rhetoric is anti-islamic in nature then it's totally kosher on these boards.


#86    Yamato

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:49 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 05 March 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Yam, It appears that as long as the rhetoric is anti-islamic in nature then it's totally kosher on these boards.
Yeah, if it's anti-Islamic, it's let 'er rip.

Politically correct = politically constipated.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#87    Yes_Man

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

Seems there is wanna be Clerics on here


#88    and then

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 05 March 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Yam, It appears that as long as the rhetoric is anti-islamic in nature then it's totally kosher on these boards.
Speaking as someone who got a little 2 week "time out" for "insulting Islam" I can attest that this comment is in error.  I do not agree with the tenets of Islam and make no excuses for that.  But I also (now) try very hard not to be insulting of the genuine beliefs of Muslims.  I have no doubt they are as sincere in their belief as I am.  This thread was meant to shine a small light on the differences and bloody conflict between two of the branches - nothing more sinister to it than that.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#89    Yamato

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:47 AM

View Postand then, on 07 March 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Speaking as someone who got a little 2 week "time out" for "insulting Islam" I can attest that this comment is in error.  I do not agree with the tenets of Islam and make no excuses for that.  But I also (now) try very hard not to be insulting of the genuine beliefs of Muslims.  I have no doubt they are as sincere in their belief as I am.  This thread was meant to shine a small light on the differences and bloody conflict between two of the branches - nothing more sinister to it than that.
Outsiders meddling with foreign religions isn't going to work.  Like we'd suffer Muslims coming over here and rearranging what kind of Christians we are.  When such an exercise is done by force and worse, institutionalized by policy, it's just asinine.   If we tried and tried again to be friends with people we have political disagreements with, we'd see that foreigners are dying to be our friends once the callous reasons for conflict are peeled away and our common humanity is exposed.   Foreigners complain about the US so much because we're such a disappointment for them.  They care about it, otherwise they'd be complaining about something else.   If we were just trading with everyone and practicing good standards for all instead of feeding the mouth with one hand and choking the neck with the other, we'd get much better results in the world in the long run.  It's the same dynamic that we're suffering from domestically right now...doing things that are argued to be the best for the here and now, but mortgaging our future in the process.  I see the same pattern of thinking and it manifests in multiple ways in the bigger picture.

Politicians come and go, politics come and go, regimes come and go.  Squabbling over those things and killing people over them is not the way.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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