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R.I.P. Gaddafi


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#1    bee

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 10:50 AM

I wasn't sure where to put this thread but decided this was probably the best forum.


Something has felt wrong to me about this whole Gaddafi/Libya episode from the beginning.


I have been disgusted with the news coverage about Gaddafi's death and feel it has been

a cynical exercise of politically motivated propaganda.


Pictures of Gaddafi....blooded, abused and executed have been splashed all over the front pages...

And then we wonder why young people turn to violence and think it's ok!!!!


Anyway here's a video showing the other side of the story.







and....







Hillary, Hillary, Hillary !!!  


With 6 words you have sealed your political future. You have blown it.



Could the points outlined in the first video above be the real reason Gaddafi was 'removed' ???




.


#2    BFB

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:48 AM

View Postbee, on 24 October 2011 - 10:50 AM, said:


Pictures of Gaddafi....blooded, abused and executed have been splashed all over the front pages...

And then we wonder why young people turn to violence and think it's ok!!!!


Can't watch the videos, but i agree with the above.

My first reaction was... Wow this is a good start for their democracy.

And then I started to think about how they treated his boody after death.

Why is this accepted? Didn't hear Obama or any other national leader say that is not the way to do it. Actually they went out and congratulated Libya. Shouldn't they have said, this is not how you treat a dead prisoner? If not, why didn't we do the same with Bin Larden?

Libya have shown that its okay to go agianst muslim customs if the person was a tyrant.
I want Bin Lardens body up from the deep sea and have my own litlle "tour" around his body, just like they did with Gadaffi.

"Its not true, until my brain says so" - BFB

#3    Habitat

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:46 AM

I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.


#4    bee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:54 AM

Thanks for your reply BFB



View PostBFB, on 25 October 2011 - 08:48 AM, said:

Can't watch the videos, but i agree with the above.


four quotes from the video...

"Before NATO invasion Libyans enjoyed the highest standard of living in Africa ahead of Russia, Brazil and Saudi Arabia"


"In Libya homes are considered a human right"


"Newly married couples received $50,000 to buy their own home"


Electricity is free to all people"


This was in Gaddafi's Libya.



Quote

My first reaction was... Wow this is a good start for their democracy.

And then I started to think about how they treated his boody after death.

Why is this accepted? Didn't hear Obama or any other national leader say that is not the way to do it. Actually they went out and congratulated Libya. Shouldn't they have said, this is not how you treat a dead prisoner? If not, why didn't we do the same with Bin Larden?


IMO...our 'leaders' have brought shame on us by what has happened in Libya and the way

they have accepted....encouraged... the unacceptable.

  

Quote

Libya have shown that its okay to go agianst muslim customs if the person was a tyrant.


good point

there was a piece in the Daily Mirror UK newspaper yesterday...the title of the article was

Chilling Day Out....Kids queue to see Mad Dog in Freezer (and a picture of the kids)


the last little paragraph said


"Libya's acting Prime Minister, Mahmoud Jibri announced yesterday that Islamic Sharia law

is to become the 'basic source' of the new legal system"



#5    Scepticus

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:54 AM

View PostHabitat, on 25 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D

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#6    skookum

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:00 AM

There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?

Posted Image

#7    bee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:00 AM

View PostHabitat, on 25 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.


It looks like it was oil and GOLD and a new money system?


I saw this on YT







#8    Habitat

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:07 AM

View Postskookum, on 25 October 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?
There was clearly opposition alright, but with NATO airstrikes round the clock for months, they didn't need to be very strong to prevail.


#9    bee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:15 AM

View PostScepticus, on 25 October 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D


Syria's Assad is probably a very worried man right now.

The barbaric killing of Gaddafi and the West's complicity and approval...was probably

also designed to be a warning.




View Postskookum, on 25 October 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

There again you have to ask yourself if the country was great before why did the people revolt?


It's hard for us to get the facts about it all because of the propaganda...

but I expect rival tribes were encouraged...paid even! to turn on Gaddafi

they could not have done it without the NATO 'support'...which suggests

that NATO was backing a minority?


There would have been simmering power struggles within...?

note quote about Sharia Law in my previous post.


#10    Scepticus

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:32 AM

View Postbee, on 25 October 2011 - 10:15 AM, said:

Syria's Assad is probably a very worried man right now.

The barbaric killing of Gaddafi and the West's complicity and approval...was probably

also designed to be a warning.


No i don't think so. 3 reasons for that.

1. If NATO really wanted to help the civilians, they would allready have been in Syria. Assad have slaughtered more protesting men, women and children than Gaddafi ever did.

2. There is no oil they can gain from in Syria.

3. Iran have said if the US and NATO touch Syria, they would declare war.

What happened with the motto: We never negotiate with criminals?

Edited by Scepticus, 25 October 2011 - 10:36 AM.

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#11    bee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:08 AM

View PostScepticus, on 25 October 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

No i don't think so. 3 reasons for that.

1. If NATO really wanted to help the civilians, they would allready have been in Syria. Assad have slaughtered more protesting men, women and children than Gaddafi ever did.

2. There is no oil they can gain from in Syria.

3. Iran have said if the US and NATO touch Syria, they would declare war.

What happened with the motto: We never negotiate with criminals?


I take all your points....


But would de-stabilizing the Middle East also be behind what's been going on?

Although how the power vacuums will be filled and how the ordinary poeople will fair remains to be seen.

Libya isn't in the Middle East...but destroying Gaddafi's Libya would have been a political move

connected to destabilizing the whole area? (while also tackling the oil/gold/economy question)



Former 4-star U.S General admits to America Foreign Policy Coup





?


#12    Corp

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:17 PM

View PostHabitat, on 25 October 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

I suppose the idea of getting paid for oil away from $US would have set a nasty precedent. Who knows what the real reason for this 'regime change', but I'll wager it is connected to oil.

You mean the oil that the West was already getting? Odd how everyone seems to forget that little fact.


View PostScepticus, on 25 October 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

Why did we help, properly because of oil.

If that's not the cases why aren't we in Syria. The cases in Syria is teen times worse than the Libya cases.

No oil, no reason.

:D

Libya was begging for direct military intervention. Syria has not from what I can tell. The Arab League wanted a no fly zone in Libya. They're divided on Syria. The UN approved action in Libya. Russia and China are blocking any kind of action against Syria. Libya had no allies. Syria has Iran backing them up. The Libyan government vowed to butcher the protesters. The Syrian government is still pretending there's only a bit of violence. But no I'm sure it's all about oil.  :rolleyes:

Given the all the 'imperialism' and 'war for oil' whining shouldn't people be thrilled that NATO is standing around letting Syrians be murdered? Judging from the reaction with Libya that's what people want.

Edited by Corp, 25 October 2011 - 02:18 PM.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#13    Scepticus

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:06 PM

View PostCorp, on 25 October 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

Libya was begging for direct military intervention. Syria has not from what I can tell. The Arab League wanted a no fly zone in Libya. They're divided on Syria. The UN approved action in Libya. Russia and China are blocking any kind of action against Syria. Libya had no allies. Syria has Iran backing them up. The Libyan government vowed to butcher the protesters. The Syrian government is still pretending there's only a bit of violence. But no I'm sure it's all about oil.  :rolleyes:

Given the all the 'imperialism' and 'war for oil' whining shouldn't people be thrilled that NATO is standing around letting Syrians be murdered? Judging from the reaction with Libya that's what people want.
:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.
The people in Syria have done the same and they are quite depressed that the world won't help them.

Why do you think that China and Russia voted veto? I wouldn't start a war in my own backyard either and also cut off a money supply?.

I know for a fact that the Russians have an arms deal agreement with Syria. This deal generates 6 billion dollars a year.

Why do you think the US haven't allready attacked Iran? They had a quite good opportunity when they had most of their troops surrounding Iran. But again Russia and China said no go. They are affraid that Iran will go jihad and declear war against any country supporting the US. And at the moment they'll have to back the US due to, again, money supply.

The same goes for North Korea. You don't start wars with countries who have insane leaders and nuclear technology in your own backyard.

Why do you think the BRICS alliance have arraived? So they in the future don't need to rely on the US.

Trust me the US doesn't care about other people in other countries, they only care about countries that are assets to them.

:D

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#14    bee

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:25 PM

View PostScepticus, on 25 October 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.

What people? Not these people...

Pro Gaddafi Rally....

(In the video description it says the voice is not Gaddafi's...???)





Quote

Recorded from
http://onlystream.ne...ebroot/ljbc.htm

Translation of Gaddafi's speech:

Translation of Gaddafi speech today, translation by Karim Budabuss:
The leader is talking now. He is saying that this is a historical day, and he is challenging Sarkozy, Cameron and Obama to switch on their TVs and watch the crowds and he is saying that they will find out that they are delusional because they entered a war which they never win, he also says if you continue targeting our houses we can do the same coz Europe is not far away but he said lets not do this and watch the crowds , kids and women. They are not here because i ordered them to, it is they are free will. in this war you are not facing me you are facing these crowds. I am nothing, if you want peace with Libyans, it is up to the crowds. If you want any thing , negotiate with the crowds. The regime is not Gaddafi regime, it is a Libyan regime . Even if many got scared, defected and escaped, the Libyans will remain, and each coward will be replaced with a hero. Is it a democracy to bomb the civilans, we don't want a democracy which comes with bombs. The socialist Jamahyria will win, the real democracy which serves the people. I advice you to stop bombing, and stop becoming merecenaries for some rebels. The Libyans said their words, they marched, their tribes made it clear that the future is for Libyans, the oil is for Libya, Libya is ours. You are delusional, a group of traitors convinced you that Libya is easy to get, you hired mercenaries , propaganda, sychological war all that didn't allow you to make any progress on the ground. Turn on ur TVs and watch the longest Libyan flag 4.5 km, I didn't make this flag, people donated to make this flag. Those rebels are no different from who betrayed Libyan during the Italian invasion. Libyan people go in millions without weapons to liberate the regions under rebel control. You Libyan people are the only one who can finish this war with a victory. If they want to negotiate we welcome that, otherwise we are continuing and they are definitely losing no matter how many weapons they drop with parachute to the rebels. We will not betrayed our history nor our children and their future. The glory is for you brave Libyans, the struggle will continue.

Translation from: http://www.facebook.com/VivaGaddafi



#15    Corp

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 03:49 PM

View PostScepticus, on 25 October 2011 - 03:06 PM, said:

:rolleyes:

No Libya was not begging for direct military intervention. The people were.
The people in Syria have done the same and they are quite depressed that the world won't help them.

Why do you think that China and Russia voted veto? I wouldn't start a war in my own backyard either and also cut off a money supply?.

I know for a fact that the Russians have an arms deal agreement with Syria. This deal generates 6 billion dollars a year.

Why do you think the US haven't allready attacked Iran? They had a quite good opportunity when they had most of their troops surrounding Iran. But again Russia and China said no go. They are affraid that Iran will go jihad and declear war against any country supporting the US. And at the moment they'll have to back the US due to, again, money supply.

The same goes for North Korea. You don't start wars with countries who have insane leaders and nuclear technology in your own backyard.

Why do you think the BRICS alliance have arraived? So they in the future don't need to rely on the US.

Trust me the US doesn't care about other people in other countries, they only care about countries that are assets to them.

:D

The Syrian opposition group is just starting to get organized, in part with Turkey's help. Before that they were very divided. And based on opinions expressed by our own Syrian members they don't want any kind of Western help. The protesters want aid to make the Syrian government halt their attacks but I'm not sure they've formally asked for direct military intervention, at least not from NATO as a whole. I imagine they've been focusing their efforts on Turkey and members of the Arab League.

And you're right that business concerns do have Russia and China protecting the Syrian government. However do they get the blame for the continued violence? Nope. It's all the West's fault for not stepping in. China and Russia get a free ride but the West must be condemned for "only caring about oil". Of course if the West did get involved in Syria you'd have people screaming about how this is a crusade, a plan to set up an invasion of Iran, wanting to build an oil pipeline or something, ordered to do it by Israel, etc etc.

Yes the US only do things that is of benefit to them, just like every single country in the world. However it's only the US, and by extention the West, that gets condemned no matter what they do. It's a rather tiring double standard.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.




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