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What did we learn in this election?


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#91    TrueBeliever

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:19 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 08 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Problem is that people went to the Polls and voted based on wanting Gay Marriage and Welfare and they should have voted based on what was needed to repair the economny and make the nation strong again.
So now we have Gays being allowed to marry and we are headed for a 20 trillion dollar cliff with poor credit ratings.
Way to use your head and vote on things that really matter.
Too many selfish people in this nation.


YOU are the narcissist. You believe everything you think is true and accurate and a factual representation of the world around you.

The GOP lost because they had no message except to bash Obama. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey and we face complicated problems many of which could have been productively worked through if the GOP hadn't been so obstructionist and petty and pathetic and whiny and angry and STUPID!


#92    Capt Amerika

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 08 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

A random thought before I got to bed...
So we are made up of takers and makers or moochers and enablers...here is my question...

Where do YOU (as in the people on this forum) fall?
Are you a maker and an enabler? Do you employ people or create jobs?
If you do not, you are a taker and a moocher...
I only imagine we have a website full of business owners...


This is the problem with Ann Coulter and others that follow her beliefs. They seem to think that you are either a business owner or a moocher and apparently she seems to think that business owners are around 50% of the population. I don't know what kind of businesses she is familiar with, but in the world I live in, workers (or moochers) out number employers by a large number...then again, I don't live in the Bubble...

I disagree that you are a moocher or a taker if youre not a business owner.
The original quote was actually spot on.
I work my rear off at a job that i have because i finished high school and went to college to get a USEFUL degree and now i am employed.
I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination, i make between 60 and 65k a year and i pay a 25% tax rate on that pay.
How does that make me a taker or a moocher?
47% of this country pays little to no tax out of their income through the year and at tax time when they file they get every single penny they contributed back.
In many cases, they contributed so little that after deductions they get more money back than they contributed.  WTH?
That is 47% of this country.
If every single citizen from top to bottom just paid 10% of every single penny the received as income from work / stocks/ etc with ZERO deductions we would have a 1 page tax law that works.
10% from everyone would grow the middle class and increase the economy due to more available income.  The poor would then be more inclined to get eductaed or skilled to make more income and our nation could get out of debt.
47% Freeloading is no way to run a country especially when they receive every single benefit as an American citizen that i receive.

But rather than fix the tax laws, lets just continue to pretend that only Republicans are rich and Evil.  Democrats like Pelosi, Reid are all dirt poor thats why they connect with the lower class so well.
Why else would they tell you the GOP is worried about tax breaks for the rich and yet they, the Dems in power, do nothing to fix the tax laws????
Like everything else, they just assume the lower class is uneducated and will just believe what they hear.


#93    Capt Amerika

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:29 PM

View PostTrueBeliever, on 08 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

YOU are the narcissist. You believe everything you think is true and accurate and a factual representation of the world around you.

The GOP lost because they had no message except to bash Obama. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey and we face complicated problems many of which could have been productively worked through if the GOP hadn't been so obstructionist and petty and pathetic and whiny and angry and STUPID!

believe what you want.
I have a 16 trillion dollar debt to prove that im right.
I have a list a mile long of Obama promises that were never met.  (Remember Gitmo?)
I have a list of crimes commited that will never be investigated  (Fast and Furious?)
and you have the nerve to call me a narcissist?  really?
You are delusional and have obviously taken in too much of the DNC Kool-aid.

Edited by Capt Amerika, 08 November 2012 - 01:29 PM.


#94    Capt Amerika

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 08 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

A random thought before I got to bed...
So we are made up of takers and makers or moochers and enablers...here is my question...

Where do YOU (as in the people on this forum) fall?
Are you a maker and an enabler? Do you employ people or create jobs?
If you do not, you are a taker and a moocher...
I only imagine we have a website full of business owners...


This is the problem with Ann Coulter and others that follow her beliefs. They seem to think that you are either a business owner or a moocher and apparently she seems to think that business owners are around 50% of the population. I don't know what kind of businesses she is familiar with, but in the world I live in, workers (or moochers) out number employers by a large number...then again, I don't live in the Bubble...

Ann Coulter is an idiot.
Why anyone would listen to a word that comes out of her mouth is just beyond me.
She is the Right wings version of Michael Moore.


#95    Order66

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostTrueBeliever, on 08 November 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

The GOP lost because they had no message except to bash Obama.

(1) It worked for Obama in 2008, nobody talked about Obama's record as a senator, his campaign centered around trashing Bush. Four years later he is still blaming Bush for his own failures.
(2) Romney did have a message, if you want to find it, look in the recycle bins on the computers at mediamatters.org where they dump the other 95% of the video clips that are unacceptable because the criticize the prophet.

Quote

The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey and we face complicated problems many of which could have been productively worked through if the GOP hadn't been so obstructionist

Translation: My ideas have no guiding principles, but they could have been brought to fruition anyway if you'd stop questioning my authority as dictator.

Quote

and petty and pathetic and whiny and angry and STUPID!

yes, they have no message except to bash!

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#96    Yes_Man

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:46 PM

If Romney did have a message why did he fail?


#97    Order66

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:55 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 08 November 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

If Romney did have a message why did he fail?

Because younger voters are ****-ups that extol failure. They hold Obama as an example of how far a failure can go in life. Obama stands on the apex of mediocrity. Now when parents say, "someday, you could even be president!" they don't mean it as the opposite of failure, now it is synonymous with it. If Romney says someday you can be rich if you work hard, voters say, "pfft, easy for you to say!" Yet it's okay to sit on your ass and do nothing and envision you will be the next Kim Kardashian, that's a  great American dream, *Snip*

Edited by Karlis, 08 November 2012 - 02:01 PM.
crude remark

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#98    Yes_Man

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:58 PM

View PostVein Capital, on 08 November 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Because younger voters are ****-ups that extol failure. They hold Obama as an example of how far a failure can go in life. Obama stands on the apex of mediocrity. Now when parents say, "someday, you could even be president!" they don't mean it as the opposite of failure, now it is synonymous with it. If Romney says someday you can be rich if you work hard, voters say, "pfft, easy for you to say!" Yet it's okay to sit on your ass and do nothing and envision you will be the next Kim Kardashian, that's a  great American dream, *Snip*.
Isn't that exacttly what you are doing?

Edited by Karlis, 08 November 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#99    CommunitarianKevin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 08 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

I learned that
Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler was correct when he wrote the following:
“a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority, he said, always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship”.
Unfortunately, we can't argue with the professor because when he wrote that we were still colonials of Great Britain and he was explaining what had destroyed the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years before.

Such foresight, and is there any question at all that the vast majority of Obamas votes came from those who have become dependent upon the government for their survival?
Darwinism has been circumvented in the USA and the result is the Democratic Party.....for now.  
20 Trillion dollars in debt and we may find ourselves begging England to take us back.   :cry:

Dependent on the government for survival? Really?

View PostCapt Amerika, on 08 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Problem is that people went to the Polls and voted based on wanting Gay Marriage and Welfare and they should have voted based on what was needed to repair the economny and make the nation strong again.
So now we have Gays being allowed to marry and we are headed for a 20 trillion dollar cliff with poor credit ratings.
Way to use your head and vote on things that really matter.
Too many selfish people in this nation.

People are selfish...just as you are...
"My policy went up 6% on the very day that the Supreme court decided that Obamacare was legal because it was a tax.
Please stop trying to help me.  it isnt working"
That is a quote from you in another thread. See, you are selfish too...you want things to go your way...

My screen names may change. My real name is Kevin. You can call me that in the threads...
My "about me" page...
http://www.unexplain...showentry=24860
http://athans-athansblog.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/KevinAthans

#100    Walter White

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:38 PM

I remember watching Marco Rubio at the Republican convention and thinking that he should've been on the ticket.  He was funny, warm, charming, all the things Romney wasn't.

He did say at one point during his speech something along the lines of "we don't want America to be like the rest of the world, we want the rest of the world to be like America".  That made me want to punch him, but apart from that he seemed alright.

What i learnt is that the Republicans really need to big Rubio up over the next four years, if they go with another "angry white guy" they're finished, if they're not already.

Oh, and that i was right in thinking Rubio should've been on the ticket.

Edited by Walter White, 08 November 2012 - 02:43 PM.

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#101    MissMelsWell

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

View PostCapt Amerika, on 08 November 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Problem is that people went to the Polls and voted based on wanting Gay Marriage and Welfare and they should have voted based on what was needed to repair the economny and make the nation strong again.
So now we have Gays being allowed to marry and we are headed for a 20 trillion dollar cliff with poor credit ratings.
Way to use your head and vote on things that really matter.
Too many selfish people in this nation.

So have we figured out yet why people went to the polls based on same sex marriage, women's health and other moral dilemas? We did that because the GOP forced us into it with their lunatic ranting and ravings about those very topics! Then they offered no concrete solutions about fixing the economy (other than to whine that they don't want universal health care!) America voted Blue because we're sending a message to the Red team that they need to get their act together and start coming up with a REAL platform. Not FoxNews hate mongering.

OH, and by the way, I can assure you there are more people in the red states on welfare than there are in the blue states.You can't convince me there are fewer people Mississippi and Alabama on welfare than there are in Washington and Colorado for example. Sorry.

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#102    Order66

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 08 November 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Isn't that exacttly what you are doing?

Now we are talking about me? I didn't run for president Tricky Dick but as for a message, I do share Romney's vision of the American dream as quest for excellence rather than a quest to to make losers and failures feel better about themselves. I don't sneer at people who want to better themselves while I capitalize on their success.

And yes I am judgemental. Do you know why Obama hates the military? Because if you put him on an obstacle course, he can't talk his way over the wall. He can't take the easy way around and then lie about how he got there. If you judge his performance against others based on objective criteria, he knows where he will fall on the list. If there are winners and losers in the game, he knows which category he will fall into.

Edited by Vein Capital, 08 November 2012 - 03:16 PM.

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#103    Lilly

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

View PostVein Capital, on 08 November 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

... If there are winners and losers in the game, he knows which category he will fall into.

Not sure what "game" you're referring to but Mr. Obama did indeed win the Presidential election. Like it or not that's the reality. Personally, I would suggest that a mature/gracious acceptance of the situation would be far more productive.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#104    F3SS

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:00 PM

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 08 November 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:



So what shall I do? Not vote? Who promotes my beliefs?



Sorry, I do not think I am familiar with MSM or at least that acronym

Oddly enough there was the Socialist Party listed on the ballot. I suppose someone should tell them that party already exists? And since you consider yourself a Constitutionalist, shall I assume you voted for Goode, the presidential canidate for the Constitution Party? Or did you do like everyone else and just vote Dem or Repub even though they may not match many or most of your views? Are you a hypocrite, or were you one of the 2% of people that actually voted for the party they believe in? If you did actually vote for that party, much respect to ya.



No, my side does not have an issue with the government stepping in and correcting oppression and injustice. It happened for slavery, women's rights, American Indian rights, the right for inter-racial marriage, and now gay marriage. I believe it is the government's job to enforce the rights granted in the Constitution. We are not the ones saying government should not be involved.



Yes, it is rough...sometimes you just need a break from it...it can be overwhelming. We may not have the perfect system, but it is one of the better ones in the world...
MSM...MainStreamMedia
The marriage thing... How about this? Marriage as a religious institution goes by the churches views. A priest shouldn't be forced to marry two dudes because of law. A marriage by a judge goes by whatever the state law allows. I don't know if those are even a factor in the issues but that sounds fair to me.

View Postninjadude, on 08 November 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Exactly how much foreign aid do you think we do? I'll wait. The answer is very little. It's hardly worth talking about.
That's a big problem I have with your mindset. Every single government monetary issue is a pittance, except military. When you add up all the pittances it gets pretty significant. You also mention that its our humanitarian duty. First, aiding the enemy isn't humanitarian, especially towards Americans. Pakistan isn't worthy of a dollar from us. Second, that's all well and good but if you can't afford it you can't afford it. I'll concede to military cuts. Do the Ron Paul thing. Rid most of our embassies, bring our troops home and secure our parameters in such a way that foreign birds would be afraid to cross our airspace. We need to buck up and take care of number one. You always say we need to change with the times and our time as the worlds food bank and savior needs to end for a few decades at least.

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 08 November 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

A random thought before I got to bed...
So we are made up of takers and makers or moochers and enablers...here is my question...

Where do YOU (as in the people on this forum) fall?
Are you a maker and an enabler? Do you employ people or create jobs?
If you do not, you are a taker and a moocher...
I only imagine we have a website full of business owners...


This is the problem with Ann Coulter and others that follow her beliefs. They seem to think that you are either a business owner or a moocher and apparently she seems to think that business owners are around 50% of the population. I don't know what kind of businesses she is familiar with, but in the world I live in, workers (or moochers) out number employers by a large number...then again, I don't live in the Bubble...

Yes, yes and yes.
Takers and makers is just a sour grapes statement that I have been and still will be guilty of. I know the entire democrat party, voters I mean, aren't takers but many are. When big government is the message, well how's that gonna look? Big government is viewed by many as a means to live on and definitely requires money to be Taken from my paycheck . It's definitely a trend. Remember OWS. Their whole message, well what could be deciphered, was I'm entitled to this and that and if I don't get it I'm gonna take it from whoever has it. The Obama phone lady, the I'm getting money from Obamas stash lady, the I don't have to worry about my rent, gas or bills because I voted for Obama lady, the lady that asked Obama for a new kitchen who turned out to own multiple homes... Those are takers and that is a bad stigma attached to the democrat party.
I consider anyone with a job a maker first and foremost. I consider anyone who goes out of their way to receive otherwise uneccessary government help a taker, employed or not. I do not consider people who really require temporary or even permanent gov assistance as a taker so long as it is actually needed. I do not consider unemployement benefit receivers takers so long as they make honest attempts to get back to work. I do not consider welfare recipients takers so long as it not made into a way of life. There are multigenerational welfare families out there in far too large of numbers and that transcends race btw. If that's not taking I don't know what is and it's a sure bet that if they vote they vote D.
I don't think it's the republican mantra to take things away from people. I think it's more like they just aren't going to give everybody everything they want. You may say that's hateful, I may call it tough love. Or maybe not. How about this? I see the Republican Party was more like standing by conviction and the Democrat Party as a pandering bunch albeit generous with blissful ignorance of finance so long as they catch a vote.
All the right wing radio talking heads are talking about now is how to change their message to reach out to minorities and special interest groups. They have plenty of minorities holding offices already, more than dems I believe, so they don't understand what else they can do but feel they do need to change the message. Well convictions are convictions and even if the Republican Party is doomed I say die with honor doing what you believe in. If the message is going to change well then that's not really going to be the Republican Party or a rose by any other name. That would be a brand new party, well almost but I think y'all see what I mean.
About the rape comment guy... seriously people, do you really believe that is a message held dear by the entire Republican Party? C'mon? That was a guy out in left field and lost deservingly. Any intelligent being ought to be able to discern a freak in the crowd the same as many of us who listen to talk radio and watch FOX don't take everything and every view expressed to heart. Ann Coulter has good points sometimes but that doesn't mean her every word is gobbled up. Frankly, she's annoying and I don't care much for her. I like Rush and Hannity and the like but I don't share all of their passion or fall for all of their sensationalism.
Anyway...Hutton, not all of this is directed towards you nor am I looking for you to directly respond, but if you wish. Sometimes I start small and get carried away with thought as I type. See, I can make long posts too! But one more thing below...

View PostHuttonEtAl, on 08 November 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:



Dependent on the government for survival? Really?


Isn't that one of the greatest points dems try to make especially when lashing out on the heartless righties? If all the government programs are cut or removed I clearly recall being asked what about the poor and the sick and women's health? They'll be on the streets hungry and sick and dying. Isn't obamacare supposed to be the government ensuring your well being and survival?

Btw,
I'll get back to you in pm later. I told you we can get along but we will butt heads. :)

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#105    MysticStrummer

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

Sure Romney had a message. It just changed according to who he was speaking with at the time. You can find a clip of him having every viewpoint about every issue. Classic politician. The Republican party needs to take a long look in the mirror, after selecting him as their candidate. I saw his speech at the RNC as he stood up there and said absolutely nothing substantial... to thunderous applause. It was downright surreal. I felt like I was watching a parody on Saturday Night Live or Onion TV. I felt the same after that first debate when he was declared the winner. His winning strategy? Simply denying or changing his mind about many of the things he had said before. I'm amazed the election was so close, but that's what happens when people don't pay attention. By the way, "paying attention" doesn't mean getting all your news from one clearly biased source, whatever that source may be. Do your own research and look at multiple sources. It takes some time but it's time well spent if you want to be informed.

Ummon asked : "The world is such a wide world, why do you answer a bell and don ceremonial robes?" ~ Zen Flesh Zen Bones




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