Low Self Esteem

[Bendy Demon]

I was reading several articles about "low self esteem" and what really stood out is how people seem to think such issues apply only to children so hence lots of efforts are made to bolster their esteem...whether it is good or bad is another topic but nonetheless it seems that many assume it is relevant only to young ones.

Well..what about us adults? A vast majority of the articles that address the issue in adults seem to basically dismiss it in one form or another and basically tell us to just chant a few over-used platitudes to ourselves and simply "decide" to feel good about ourselves.

Thing is that such tactics don't work, they don't work on kids and they don't work on adults either. See, in order to have this "esteem" one must earn it to some degree, just like kids do.

There has to be a reason or evidence to support and justify self esteem, it is not a given and cannot be maintained when there is a decided lack of evidence that would justify such a mindset.

It seems to me that we as adults are somehow expected to know what we are good at, what we are interested in and that we are supposed to be following some obscure "passion" (whatever that means)

A lifetime of programming cannot just be deleted in an instant despite what these so-called experts keep saying. Of course it is always easy to tell someone else to basically "shut up", "suck it up" and stop feeling sorry for themselves and start feeling "good" about themselves. Well..what if one sees that they have nothing to feel good about? What if they just cannot see the utility in fostering a false sense of esteem over tasks that most people are doing anyways such as going to college, getting a job or some thing that is really just part of that massive, life-long list of tasks one "has to do"?

If a child feels depressed and suffers from low self esteem then everyone is very sympathetic and does what they can to bolster it even if it means lying and over-emphasizing trivial things (by the way, not all kids fall for that tactic) but if an adult feels the same way, one is basically dismissed and told to repeat some manner of feel-good platitude, focus on your "unique traits" (whatever that actually means these days) and if that fails to make you instantly happy then you are either deemed to be ill or you are accused of being difficult and refusing to "be" happy.

Adults are not immune to such issues and not all of us fall for the facade of all these feel-good tactics which are really superficial, baseless and insincere.

You know, sometimes the hurt from those careless/hurtful words we say to another -especially children- can show up years later and sometimes the effects are already there but takes awhile to fully manifest.

[Ashotep]

Low self esteem can have a negative effect on your marriage and sex drive. Not feeling good enough for your mate can keep you from trying to be a good spouse. Things said can effect they way anyone, adult or child, feels or sees themselves. Not a good idea to ever tell your mate they are stupid or they don't look good. Tell a woman they don't look good in lingerie and they probably won't try to wear it around you. People with low self esteem are vulnerable to cheating especially if their low opinion of themselves comes from their mate.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Hilander

[tangledweb16]

Very true sentiments. But what can be done to fix it? An ego inflated with empty praise is usually worse than someone with little sense of ego.

[JGirl]

you don't need to learn self esteem. you already have it. like confidence, it's already there but you have to utilize it and build on it.

most self esteem issues are due to allowing other's opinions or expectations to dominate one's own ideas of who they are and what they should think/want/feel/ or pursue in life.

Edited November 30, 2011 by JGirl

[Mr_Snstr]

you don't need to learn self esteem. you already have it. like confidence, it's already there but you have to utilize it and build on it.

most self esteem issues are due to allowing other's opinions or expectations to dominate one's own ideas of who they are and what they should think/want/feel/ or pursue in life.

Well said.

On that note, try getting help for self esteem these days you'll quickly find yourself on anti-depressants.

[Bendy Demon]

you don't need to learn self esteem. you already have it. like confidence, it's already there but you have to utilize it and build on it.

most self esteem issues are due to allowing other's opinions or expectations to dominate one's own ideas of who they are and what they should think/want/feel/ or pursue in life.

Maybe. But then again maybe the way others perceive us is far more accurate than the glowing way we have been told to view ourselves. After all if everyone around you sees you as lazy, for example, then maybe there is something to that.

If the only person who tells you you are "smart" is a parent while no one else does, not even teachers or relatives then I wonder..maybe there is a reason for that too.

I think it is imperative to take into account the views of others because we have to deal with others and maybe their interpretation of us is more truthful than how we have been told to view ourselves.

[JGirl]

Maybe. But then again maybe the way others perceive us is far more accurate than the glowing way we have been told to view ourselves.After all if everyone around you sees you as lazy, for example, then maybe there is something to that.

If the only person who tells you you are "smart" is a parent while no one else does, not even teachers or relatives then I wonder..maybe there is a reason for that too.

I think it is imperative to take into account the views of others because we have to deal with others and maybe their interpretation of us is more truthful than how we have been told to view ourselves.

i bolded part of your comment because that's exactly my point. time to stop being told how to view oneself.

i'm not suggesting we shouldn't take the opinions or council of others into account, i'm saying that when we allow those ideas about us to dominate what we feel to be true within ourselves is when the problem arises.

compliments and encouragement are only part of a person's healthy self esteem. you cannot rely on those things to make you feel good about yourself.

it's up to each of us to find our own worth in spite of or in addition to what others may think or feel.

remember, they have their own esteem issues as well. we all do.

[JGirl]

Well said.

On that note, try getting help for self esteem these days you'll quickly find yourself on anti-depressants.

yes all too often that's true, but the antidepressant isn't intended to 'fix' self esteem.

it alters brain chemistry to allow the patient to get on an even keel so they can cope enough to really look into their issues with counselling.

all too often people take the pills and sit and wait for them to do their magic. then they get down on themselves cuz they still have no self worth.

doesn't matter how you slice it ya still gotta do the work lol

[Bendy Demon]

it's up to each of us to find our own worth.....

Let me ask this, is not the concept of worth a value assessment placed on us by others?

A person or thing only has value when "appraised" by others so it seems; value as in being of use to someone else.

How can we, as individuals, really assess our own value? What do we realistically base it on? A bunch of feelings? Thoughts? Just how accurate are they?

Shouldn't there be something observable and justifiable there to back up those "good" feelings of ourselves?

Since others like our parents, who have raised us and had to live with us....it would seem that their conclusions would hold far more weight since they experience us from a different angle.

I am not trying to be confrontational or difficult here but just trying to get some angles on this concept.

[JGirl]

Let me ask this, is not the concept of worth a value assessment placed on us by others?

A person or thing only has value when "appraised" by others so it seems; value as in being of use to someone else.

How can we, as individuals, really assess our own value? What do we realistically base it on? A bunch of feelings? Thoughts? Just how accurate are they?

as long as you are honest with yourself, they will be more accurate than anyone.

Shouldn't there be something observable and justifiable there to back up those "good" feelings of ourselves?

your actions, thoughts, intentions.

Since others like our parents, who have raised us and had to live with us....it would seem that their conclusions would hold far more weight since they experience us from a different angle.

your parents are the last people who will be likely to give an objective opinion on your worth.

I am not trying to be confrontational or difficult here but just trying to get some angles on this concept.

i answered a few points in bold in your post.

to me, the concept of worth is inside the mind. sure culture plays a part in what we see to be 'worthy' in general, but only we know our intentions, our dreams, our potential.

only we, at the end of the day, can take stock of ourselves and our actions, etc.

this is where you will find your worth. if you look to others you will be prisoner to their ideals, attitudes, biases and prejudices.

Edited December 1, 2011 by JGirl

[Finder of Lost Things]

Everyone has inherent worth, everyone has potential in some area. It's what you do with your potential that will help you gain self esteem.

[Bendy Demon]

i answered a few points in bold in your post.

Yes and I thank you for taking the time to do so.

if you look to others you will be prisoner to their ideals, attitudes, biases and prejudices.

Hmmm..maybe. But if you look too much to ones self for that, aren't you then instead a prisoner of ones own self delusions as well?

Everyone has inherent worth, everyone has potential in some area. It's what you do with your potential that will help you gain self esteem.

Potential...is that not too a value assessment assigned by others? What is potential? Who decides and how is it defined?

See..in the end I am trying to figure out at what point are we actually seeing ourselves as we really are and at what point do we indulge in delusions because reality is far harsher (and more truthful) than what we want to think?

At any rate I find the discussion interesting. If you think I am being difficult then I offer regrets as I am just trying to understand some of today's modern concepts regarding such issues. Actually this whole concept of self worth and self esteem seems to be a very new invention.

[JGirl]

Hmmm..maybe. But if you look too much to ones self for that, aren't you then instead a prisoner of ones own self delusions as well?

yes i would say so. too much either way is an unbalanced view. the final say in your worth (not to be confused with perceived 'worthiness' which is what i think you're referring to.)is yours.

Potential...is that not too a value assessment assigned by others? What is potential? Who decides and how is it defined?

your potential exists within you whether you realize it or not. the potential of the engine of a superior automobile exists even if the engine is never turned over. yes? no one can decide what your potential is. they can guess at it based on what they know of you, but they don't decide how vast or lacking it is.

See..in the end I am trying to figure out at what point are we actually seeing ourselves as we really are and at what point do we indulge in delusions because reality is far harsher (and more truthful) than what we want to think?

that's a very individual thing, and subject to change from situation to situation.

the key i think is to get in touch with who we are without all the external opinions, base our decisions and actions on what makes us the most able to function in a productive and worthwhile manner for us, regardless of whether people agree or not.

At any rate I find the discussion interesting. If you think I am being difficult then I offer regrets as I am just trying to understand some of today's modern concepts regarding such issues. Actually this whole concept of self worth and self esteem seems to be a very new invention.

i do not think you are being difficult, i'm enjoying the discussion as well.

Edited December 1, 2011 by JGirl

[MysticStrummer]

Some conservatives I know don't believe self esteem even exists. They think it's just liberal BS.

[Spring Heeled Jerk]

Self esteem is a social construct with no absolute yardstick. Observing someone that you may believe to have low self esteem, because of transitory social standards for instance (such as the person not being clean, despite having the ability to be so), may be far from the truth as that person may be so self confident, they do not need the social approval that personal hygiene garners in order to achieve a feeling of self worth. On the flip side a person who externally appears very confident and always presents immaculately may in fact be doing so to gain the approval of others in order to compensate for a lack of self perceived worth or if you like, esteem.

If we are to accept the construct of self esteem, we then need to acknowledge that it is not a readily observable mental/emotional condition and could only be extrapolated through close contact (therapists may take many sessions to reach a conclusion that some ones esteem was low) or through keen self awareness and reporting. The latter of which often eludes folk who are experiencing low self esteem, bordering on depression (2 constructs that are closely linked).

There is also the matter of self perception and the role that this plays. If one was obsessed with becoming a world class athlete through their formative years and put much effort into this only to discover that they didn't quite have what it takes they could spend the rest of their lives feeling poor esteem despite being extremely successful in the eyes of casual observers. I quite like Hylands adaptation of biological control theory on a related topic. Change your reference criteria and things start to look better.

In other words self esteem is an elusive and complex trait to pin down and wouldn't attract much attention from medical/mental health professionals unless someone presented as extremely dysfunctional. Then, as someone above pointed out, they would probably receive a different diagnosis and possibly be treated with drugs rather than therapy.

Personally I believe it is a rather neglected social condition, because those in power (be it religion or government) desire a population that has a good element of poor self esteem as those in this state are more likely to accept their lot without complaining and, in a topical for instance, perhaps not complain about such things as having their pension ransacked by an antediluvian elitist government that panders to a largely uncaring and selfish majority. Call me a cynic (I'm not......honest)

<Author of this post ducks to avoid the incoming> ;-)

Peace

[Beany]

This is an issue that comes up frequently in the readings I do. In the context of readings, commonly the problem stems from poor parenting: critical, judemental, chronically unhappy, self-involved, and/or emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive. My thinking on this is the child learns that they are unlovable, unless they behave in a way that pleases the parent, and the idea of being unlovable then becomes one of the child's primal laws; in otherwords, it's a learned/taught behavior based on conditional love. Even when the child grows up and less contact with the parent, they are still carrying that critical voice within them.

I see it as misperspection of self. We are not seeing ourselves realistically, but always through the early filters. So how do we restore ourselves to good mental health & a positive image? Maybe through identifying our primal laws, those beliefs we adopted when we were children as coping mechanisms, that may have been necessary then, but no longer serve us as adults. What we believed at 6 to be true about the world, ourselves, and our relationship to the world were formed with the experience and understanding of a child, and the limitations that go with that.

I did a lot of this work myself, and it was WORK! Some of the beliefs I had were with me for so long that it was difficult to identify them. For women, it's pretty easy: good girls must be quiet. Good girls must make themselves physically attractive. Being nice at all times is important. If I didn't behave in the expected way, love would be withdrawn, the ultimate punishment. That in order to be lovable, I must intuit what others want of me, and do my best to fill that want or need.

For me, it meant finally beginning to love myself, the small child who was born into the world and had value, not because of what I did, what I said, how much success I achieved, but simply because I am. I believe that's the birthright of all human beings; we deserve love simply because we are. That's doesn't mean we shouldn't engage in healthy introspection, it simply means that we love ourselves totally and completely, faults & all, and forgive ourselves for all the wrongs we believe we committed. We're not perfect, we're always going to make mistakes, that doesn't mean we're crappy human beings. So I had to give up my need/desire to look good at all times, to always appear to be in control, and dare to be imperfectly human.

sorry this is so long, but this is an important issue for me. We all deserve to be loved, to be forgiven, and we need to do that for ourselves. How can we expect others to do for us what we are unwilling to do ourselves? So to have even for a moment the thought that, hey, I'm OK, I'm not perfect, but I think I'll love myself just for a little bit, right now, in this moment, can be the first step in a journey of healing. And if there's anyone out there who can't do this, let me know, and I'll do it for you until you are able to recognize your own worthiness. I have no doubts that if you are human you are worthy, and you are lovable this very minute.

[Bendy Demon]

You know..when I read articles regarding self esteem in reference to females, there seems to be this assumption that a lack of it stems from their perceived lack of physical beauty. In other words it seems like it is being assumed that this is what women focus on primarily.

Of course it seems like this is assumed of men too so both genders get the bum rap so it seems.

This is an issue that comes up frequently in the readings I do. In the context of readings, commonly the problem stems from poor parenting: critical, judemental, chronically unhappy, self-involved, and/or emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive. My thinking on this is the child learns that they are unlovable, unless they behave in a way that pleases the parent, and the idea of being unlovable then becomes one of the child's primal laws; in otherwords, it's a learned/taught behavior based on conditional love. Even when the child grows up and less contact with the parent, they are still carrying that critical voice within them.

Sadly because this IS a part of a child's programming it is not a mere simple matter of just "changing" how you think or "deleting" such messages as if your mind is a tape recorder. All these messages are part of that mental foundation whether one likes it or not.

Of course when a person grows up hearing similar messages from everyone and no one seems to be able to detect anything particularly "good" about one or there are no mentions or encouragements of any perceived skills then a person grows up, as I have, thinking that all one is is a mere cog in the machine. Replaceable and simply bland and average.

Of course we can't all be "outstanding" or excellent so perhaps in that case maybe it is just as good to realize that being average is really the norm.

If one receives messages that everyone views one as lazy or some other label then it is not hard to come to the conclusion that they can't all be wrong.

How can we expect others to do for us what we are unwilling to do ourselves?

Unfortunately it is the messages. If no one else sees one as acceptable or tolerable then one might wonder why one should even see themselves otherwise.

But then again..what IS the truth about ourselves? Sometimes I wonder if the perceptions others have of us is more closer to the truth than what we want to assume.

After all we tend to see ourselves through convenient filters where we ignore glaring faults and short-comings.

I don't know....it gets stressful because we get conflicting messages; our parents, teachers and acquaintances say this and experts in the corporate world, for example, scream at us from all angles that we absolutely MUST do this and that and be active as possible just so one might "impress" an employer.

Then you have psychological experts telling us how we are supposed to feel regardless of what evidence there is or is not to justify such views.

I agree however that love shouldn't be so conditional to the point that one is compelled to be something they are not or to do and not do things just to appease others but....sadly this seems to be what life is about.

Because I grew up with lots of criticisms, little actual encouragement and surrounded by people who called me a "under-achiever" which is code for "lazy" and "not craving high grades and teachers attentions" plus "not conforming" I simply accepted that I was what they said I was because there is no evidence to say otherwise.

Also..having a father whose view of me changed with his moods didn't help either. If he was in a good mood then I was "ok" and supposedly had "lots" going for me and that I was supposedly "good" at a lot of things (though strangely when I asked him once what that might be, he had no answer).

But when he was in a bad mood then he had a list of things to criticize and lecture me about.

Anywhoo...what I really need is to be in a better environment where there is more positive encouragement, not implied threats, griping, lectures, harping and stuff then perhaps it would help a bit.

So now...I see no real value in what I do..it is basically a big "ho-hum" for me.

The more articles I read about psychological issues like this, the more depressed I feel...weird.

Anyways, thanks

@ Spring Healed Jerk: I actually kind of agree with you so you don't need to duck from me.

[Beany]

Years ago a friend of mine told me this one thing that sounded so true at the time and still sounds true: If anything you hear about yourself makes you feel bad, it's a lie, because the truth never hurts. We could all spend hours/days/weeks/years talking about this, and would learn a lot of valuable stuff, for sure. But I don't believe the answers we need come from our minds alone. I think our hearts know the truth of it, who we are, our value, our worth. It's a matter of choosing the right tool, mind or heart, for what we need to do.

So here's the challenge: be willing to believe, even if just for a moment, that we have value and for just a moment, allow ourselves to love ourselves, from the heart, and allow ourselves to experience what unconditional love feels like, and decide whether we like it. This can be done immediately, from one moment to the next, if that is our intention. Then put aside the talk, rationals, exposition, and simply consider experimenting with our belief systems, because it is our belief systems that makes us feel crappy about ourselves, what ever the genesis of those beliefs. Does our current belief system serve us well? If not, what about it needs to change? And then, what beliefs would better serve us? This is a great use of the mind, practical and common-sensical, and rational. The thing about doing this is, it makes us 100% responsible for ourselves, our lives, and our own happiness, it means we have to give up the victim state, it means we have to be proactive, and not everyone is sure they're ready for that.

A combination of heart & mind is hard to beat, the two working in integrity with one another instead of against one another can help us achieve more than we ever dreamed of. We can choose to be our own authority on ourselves, or choose to give that power over to someone else. Anyway, I hope this helps. I had an epiphany once, in which I understood that all of us were given all that we need to be happy at birth, we came into the world with all the tools we need. But somehow we were taught to look outside ourselves for happiness, and so have been looking for years for the one thing, that one person, that one job, whatever it is, to bring us happiness. If we're lucky, we eventually rediscover ourselves and our own inner resources, and begin to find happiness & peace & love. I think it's the allegory of Eden, with humans coming full circle, back to the garden, but with wisdom & knowledge, or like Joseph Campbell's hero's journey.

[Purplos]

only we, at the end of the day, can take stock of ourselves and our actions, etc.

this is where you will find your worth.

It seems to me the problem with low self esteem is when you look at yourself and find no worth. People can be objective and have low self esteem. There are also people out there with little worth, in the grand scheme of things. I suppose the way to gain self esteem is to choose something you think might make you feel good, and then do it and see if it works.

If anything you hear about yourself makes you feel bad, it's a lie, because the truth never hurts.

I'm glad it helps you, but it sounds like a bunch of BS to me. lol The truth often hurts a great deal.

[Bendy Demon]

If anything you hear about yourself makes you feel bad, it's a lie, because the truth never hurts.

Mmm..sounds nice but what if one has delusions of oneself and needs to be forcefully brought back to planet reality? Conversely what if the supposed "good" things don't feel true either?

I guess even when I was little I never really felt "good" about myself nor did my "heart" ever say otherwise so after decades of getting messages that are not really supportive..I guess I never seen any reason to see myself otherwise.

But you are right, it takes lots of energy to try and feel otherwise. Sometimes one wonders if it is justifiable.

Tis a puzzle and a conundrum.

I do not mean to sound dismissive or argue and I know you're trying to help; it is just that our current concept of esteem seems a bit lopsided but I also am not sure that just producing Pavlovian style reflexes is the answer too.

[Spring Heeled Jerk]

It seems to me the problem with low self esteem is when you look at yourself and find no worth.

Yes. My point above regarding self perception. The whole thing is based on a subjective value system which for most folk is learned from 'significant others' such as parents, strong peers etc. It is very difficult for someone to break this mould and develop a value system based on their own deduction. Most folk with a lack of esteem have inherited this, in that they are applying the values of society/significant others, to themselves. We are constantly bombarded with unattainable images of beauty and the false promise held out by the likes of the noxious X-factor. You can all be a beautiful, loved celebrity apparently, but if you're not, then well.... you're obviously of less value??

People can be objective and have low self esteem. There are also people out there with little worth, in the grand scheme of things.

No. Any objectivity is an illusion, since we are talking about wholly subjective value systems. A member of the extreme political right might hold themselves in high esteem, because of their ethnicity. This is an obviously flawed value system, but demonstrates just how much the construct of self esteem might rely upon the values that have been etched into us. Trying not to be too socialist I would say that all folk are of equal worth and it is only subjective value that leads us to any other conclusion.

I suppose the way to gain self esteem is to choose something you think might make you feel good, and then do it and see if it works.

That would be nice. Unfortunately the choices that many folk experiencing low self esteem take in order to make themselves feel better, ultimately cause them harm and lead to a further drop in self esteem. I suppose some choices can remove one so far from the self that issues of esteem become secondary to other needs. I like Maslow, so one way out would be to choose something to make you feel good that cramps up the base of his hierarchy.............not likely to worry about self actualisation then. <gosh I'm making myself sound cynical again. >

Peace

[Bendy Demon]

It seems to me the problem with low self esteem is when you look at yourself and find no worth.

"Worth" is a value judgement placed on one by others, right? Is worth to be interpreted as someone who can be gainfully exploited in some way by others?

What exactly IS worth and to whom? This is one of the questions going around in my mind.

There are also people out there with little worth, in the grand scheme of things.

True but again who is it that determines that worth?

The truth often hurts a great deal.

Yes, it does and it is that which helps create depression.

[Mr Right Wing]

I was reading several articles about "low self esteem" and what really stood out is how people seem to think such issues apply only to children so hence lots of efforts are made to bolster their esteem...whether it is good or bad is another topic but nonetheless it seems that many assume it is relevant only to young ones.

Well..what about us adults? A vast majority of the articles that address the issue in adults seem to basically dismiss it in one form or another and basically tell us to just chant a few over-used platitudes to ourselves and simply "decide" to feel good about ourselves.

Thing is that such tactics don't work, they don't work on kids and they don't work on adults either. See, in order to have this "esteem" one must earn it to some degree, just like kids do.

There has to be a reason or evidence to support and justify self esteem, it is not a given and cannot be maintained when there is a decided lack of evidence that would justify such a mindset.

It seems to me that we as adults are somehow expected to know what we are good at, what we are interested in and that we are supposed to be following some obscure "passion" (whatever that means)

A lifetime of programming cannot just be deleted in an instant despite what these so-called experts keep saying. Of course it is always easy to tell someone else to basically "shut up", "suck it up" and stop feeling sorry for themselves and start feeling "good" about themselves. Well..what if one sees that they have nothing to feel good about? What if they just cannot see the utility in fostering a false sense of esteem over tasks that most people are doing anyways such as going to college, getting a job or some thing that is really just part of that massive, life-long list of tasks one "has to do"?

If a child feels depressed and suffers from low self esteem then everyone is very sympathetic and does what they can to bolster it even if it means lying and over-emphasizing trivial things (by the way, not all kids fall for that tactic) but if an adult feels the same way, one is basically dismissed and told to repeat some manner of feel-good platitude, focus on your "unique traits" (whatever that actually means these days) and if that fails to make you instantly happy then you are either deemed to be ill or you are accused of being difficult and refusing to "be" happy.

Adults are not immune to such issues and not all of us fall for the facade of all these feel-good tactics which are really superficial, baseless and insincere.

You know, sometimes the hurt from those careless/hurtful words we say to another -especially children- can show up years later and sometimes the effects are already there but takes awhile to fully manifest.

People with these problems need to learn to manage their states of mind better.

The mind is a powerful tool if used properly. If its directed to focus on the negative it can also be amazingly self destructive.

[Bendy Demon]

People with these problems need to learn to manage their states of mind better.

The mind is a powerful tool if used properly. If its directed to focus on the negative it can also be amazingly self destructive.

And you propose what, then?

[Mr Right Wing]

And you propose what, then?

I propose learning how 'not to think'

Meditation is a good way to learn this skill as the focus is on emptying ones mind of all thoughts. Once someone has realised its easy to silence their mind they can silence anything that pops out of it such as negative thoughts and feelings.

Dont live a prisoner of an uncontrolled mind assert yourself over it.