Should Britain have the death penalty ?

[strangely~obsessed]

Well we had a discussion in my Amnesty International group before about the Death penalty in America and how it differed from the death penalty in South Arabia. And it was brought to my attention that Britain doesn’t have the death penalty. I think that it would be a great idea for them to bring it back in a more updated way rather than the old guillotine. It would make people here stop and think before they committed murder or other crimes which could be punishable by death. What do you guys think?

[Neognosis]

It would make people here stop and think before they committed murder or other crimes which could be punishable by death. What do you guys think?

Sure, bring back the death penalty if you want to live in a country where the government has the right to kill its own citizens.

People that commit murder generally do not stop and think aobut he consequences. That's why they are criminals. Criminals, for the most part, lack the ability to equate an action with a consequence.

Also, crimes of passion, by their very nature, do not involve forethought.

Those that commit premediated murder very often are desperate or hardened to the point where the death penatly is not a deturrant anyway.

And lastly, the numbers do not support the theory that the death penalty prevents crime.

[Talon]

think that it would be a great idea for them to bring it back in a more updated way rather than the old guillotine.

guillotine? What century do you think we live in over here? We were on hanging when we banned it.

Anyway can't bring it back, we'd automatically be kicked out of the EU.

That said the EU should adopt the death penalty; not having it is a sign that a society is unwilling to protect its people. Think about it, 10% of criminals commit 75% of the crime, so if we killed those 10% the world would be a much better place.

The biggest problem with countries like the US is that they don't use it often enough. Killing murders and rapists is all well and good, but think of all the terrorist plotters, buglers, drug-dealing, arsonists, muggers etc who make people's lives misery yet weak democracies release again and again and again to harm others when a bullet through the head would end the insane levels of reoffending we have in the west.

Western democracies need not only to reintroduce the death penalty, but its needs to be extended to lesser crimes to truly rid the world of scum.

And lastly, the numbers do not support the theory that the death penalty prevents crime.

I disagree. I assure you killing someone is 100% effective in making sure they don't commit further crime.

[strangely~obsessed]

guillotine? What century do you think we live in over here? We were on hanging when we banned it.

Well i am here lol in other words i am British talon and i am tried of hearing ned’s killing people simply because they are drunk. You may have heard the latest news of 5 teenage boys being caught by the police for killing a man outside his home. One of the boys mother has to testify. I think this is becoming to regular with neds killing who ever they want knowing they will only get jailed for 20 years tops.

Edited November 20, 2007 by strangely~obsessed

[Talon]

Well i am here lol in other words i am British

Ah, see because you didn't know the UK didn't have a death penalty and you refered to the UK as 'them' I just assumed you were American.

and i am tried of hearing ned’s killing people simply because they are drunk. You may have heard the latest news of 5 teenage boys being caught by the police for killing a man outside his home. One of the boys mother has to testify. I think this is becoming to regular with neds killing who ever they want knowing they will only get jailed for 20 years tops.

20 years? Your giving out system to much credit, we have cases of murders released after less than a decade.

Anyway I hate them too, thats why I advocate executing 10% of the criminal population who do nothing but reoffend and hurt others.

[Mistydawn]

Sure, bring back the death penalty if you want to live in a country where the government has the right to kill its own citizens.

People that commit murder generally do not stop and think aobut he consequences. That's why they are criminals. Criminals, for the most part, lack the ability to equate an action with a consequence.

Also, crimes of passion, by their very nature, do not involve forethought.

Those that commit premediated murder very often are desperate or hardened to the point where the death penatly is not a deturrant anyway.

And lastly, the numbers do not support the theory that the death penalty prevents crime.

Everyone here, seems to be 'for' executing 'guilty' people. But wouldn't we then be just as guilty? I mean, wouldn't that make us murderers too??

[Neognosis]

Everyone here, seems to be 'for' executing 'guilty' people. But wouldn't we then be just as guilty? I mean, wouldn't that make us murderers too??

I'm not. I'm against the dp.

You will never stop crime by executing the criminals. New criminals will always take their place.

Criminals generally do not reason cause and effect; the dp is not a deturrant

A gov't should not have the ability to kill its citizens

The dp simply cheapens life, and does not protect life

An argument for the dp is purely emotional. It is illogical to support the dp, as it does not deter crime.

[rhyknow]

Take a look at America, the Death Penalty isn't exactly the most successful deterrent over there, is it? Crime has done anything but drop over there.

Ah, but we're talking about Britain, aren't we? Yeah, well, in answer to the OP's question: No, Britain shouldn't have a Death Penalty. Instating a death penalty means that the government is inching just that little bit closer towards a totalitarian fascistic state, where the government seeks to quieten the masses by threatening them with a sharp stick. It wouldn't work.

[1.618]

I'm against the death penalty for one because get wrongly convicted. What do you do if they have been excecuted and evidence comes to light that they were innocent?

[Torchwood]

I suspect the death penalty would be a bad idea.

The best cure for crime is probably a good education.

[Belial]

Yes to the death penalty...

And other crimes should be dealt with like they do in iran or iraq, things like theft - cut one hand off etc.

This country is to liberal and to pink with crime in general.

If i was to be a drunk driver and i killed three people while under the influence, i would get 8 years, and probably serve 3 on good behaviour, thats with a nice cell three good meals a day TV, computer, tabs and a job to boot?

If i murdered someone i would get 25 years, the same 'if not more' privalages? and more than likely be out in 12 years, if i played the system.

IF YOU KILL SOMEONE THEN YOU DESERVE TO DIE FOR IT - IF YOUR PROOVED TO HAVE KILLED ACCIDENTALLY CUT THERE ARM OFF OR SOMETHING, NOT GIVE THEM A JOB AND LUXURIES...

[Talon]

Everyone here, seems to be 'for' executing 'guilty' people. But wouldn't we then be just as guilty? I mean, wouldn't that make us murderers too??

Oh don’t give me this bleeding heart nonsense. Its people like you who’d have us living under the Nazis right now because you’d refuse to have fought WW2 against them on the basis ‘If we kill their soldiers, then we’d be just as bad as them for killing all those people in the occupied territories – far better to just surrender’.

For crying out loud there is nothing wrong with a society defending its people against predators.

If you love criminals so much why don’t you and them all go off to an island together, see how long it takes for them to turn on you despite your good-will towards them.

You will never stop crime by executing the criminals. New criminals will always take their place.

Yeah, but it’ll take time to repopulate their numbers. Considering 75% of crime is committed by the same 10% of criminals, I assure you crime would be cut dramatically crime.

Anyway, what are you suggesting? That just because there will always be crime we shouldn't do anything to stop the current criminals? Whats next 'You will never stop crime by locking up criminals. New criminals will always take their place'?

Criminals generally do not reason cause and effect; the dp is not a deturrant

Who cares whether it’s a deterrent or not, it’s a punishment. That’s like saying jails aren’t a deterrent so don’t lock criminals up.

A gov't should not have the ability to kill its citizens

The dp simply cheapens life, and does not protect life

I assure you if someone is a serial murderer and we follow your plan to let them live, then there’s going to be a lot more deaths when he gets out of jail than if we just killed him when we have the chance.

An argument for the dp is purely emotional. It is illogical to support the dp, as it does not deter crime

Again, who cares if it deters crime, it’s a punishment. What’s illogical here is your argument that murders and rapists should be allowed to live and continue to prey on others – its goes against the very nature of our species to protect the group.

Take a look at America, the Death Penalty isn't exactly the most successful deterrent over there, is it? Crime has done anything but drop over there.

That’s probably because the Americans don’t use it enough. They use it on people who are nuts to begin with (I mean yuou have to be nuts to be a serial killer or rapist anyway), but if you started using it on burglars and muggers where there is a little more thought put into the crime then I bet you they’d be crime would drop.

Instating a death penalty means that the government is inching just that little bit closer towards a totalitarian fascistic state, where the government seeks to quieten the masses by threatening them with a sharp stick. It wouldn't work.

This is the problem with bleeding hearts like yourself, you can’t tell the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy defending itself.

For the record rhyknow, since you clearly don't know, introducing the death penalty would not mean an end to elections, nor would it mean the government would threaten the law abiding with it - any party with such a policy would not be elected here despite... although since you beleive such a party might, I thinks its your entire beleif in democracy thats a concern not just the death penalty. What it would mean is all these murderers and rapists out there who people like yourself in power allow out of jail all the time on the basis of 'human rights', would not have the opportunity to commit further rapes and murders – which given the rate of reoffence, they often do.

The issue here isn’t just about the death penalty, its about whose side your on – the law-abiding citizen or the sub-human who wants to kill, rape, steal, assault them. I’m side with the former, you the later.

The best cure for crime is probably a good education.

Except you ignore that middle and higher classes can be criminals also. Beleive it or not, you don't have to working class to be a criminals

[strangely~obsessed]

I'm against the death penalty for one because get wrongly convicted. What do you do if they have been excecuted and evidence comes to light that they were innocent?

Well I seriously doubt that they would get “wrongly convicted” as most death cases last for months and have lots of evidence and witnesses. In America most criminals are on death row for about 2 years before anyone gets executed.

"The best cure for crime is probably a good education."

Yes your very right but if education fails and keeps on failing them more serious actions have to be taken.

[Neognosis]

And other crimes should be dealt with like they do in iran or iraq, things like theft - cut one hand off etc.

do you really want to live in Iran or Saudi Arabia? Is that really the type of government you want?

I'm willing to get robbed or mugged or even killed if it means preserving our liberty.

Its people like you who’d have us living under the Nazis right now because you’d refuse to have fought WW2 against them on the basis

Oh good Lord, don't give me that bullsiht.

If you love criminals so much why don’t you and them all go off to an island together, see how long it takes for them to turn on you despite your good-will towards them.

Wow, you're pulling out ALL the conservative illogical bullsiht, aren't you?

You think that because I don't believe a government should have the right to kill its own citizens, and I am educated about the actual effects of the dp, that I "love criminals?"

do you think you can put forth a point and attack our argument instead of slandering us?

Anyway, what are you suggesting? That just because there will always be crime we shouldn't do anything to stop the current criminals?

No, I'm suggesting that

1-you will never end crime unless you attack the causes of crimanility. and even then, you will NEVER end crime completely.

2- no society, even the most brutal and corporal, has been free of crime. There is still crime in places where they cut your hand off for stealing. And those societies, not coincidentally, produce the same people that strap bombs to themselves and blow up civilians. It cheapens life for all that society and makes savages out of that society.

3- I am willing to live with the current crime rate if it means freedom from a government that cuts limbs off offenders and kills citizens. We value due process. Many, many of my countrymen have died to preserve due process of our law and a freedom from cruel and unusual punishment. I'm not going to disgrace their sacrafices because I'm an angry and emotional person with poor logic reasoning ability.

I assure you if someone is a serial murderer and we follow your plan to let them live, then there’s going to be a lot more deaths when he gets out of jail than if we just killed him when we have the chance.

Who said anything about letting a serial murderer out of jail? Ah, I see, the same mind that thinks people like me would rather be Nazi's makes that illogical conclusion as well.

but if you started using it on burglars and muggers where there is a little more thought put into the crime then I bet you they’d be crime would drop.

Think this out. Right now, you do not get the dp for mugging someone. But if you did, what's to keep a common street thug from killing you when the penalty for stealing your wallet is the same for bashing your head open repeatedly with a tire iron? Why run out of the house when confronted by a homeowner during a burglary if you are already going to get the dp? Now you have the ability to kill his family and him without any further punishment.

or do you want to perscribe a list of torture for each crime as well before the execution?

It doesn't matter anyway....criminals do not reason cause and effect like normal people. If they did, they would go to school and/or get a job. but the don't, and so they become criminals.

you ignore that middle and higher classes can be criminals also

OVERWHELMINGLY non violent, however.

A criminal is still a person and not a sub-human. Though they need to be kept away from society for the sake of society, I am proud to live in a society that still upholds the dignity of human beings, even those that break societies laws.

[strangely~obsessed]

IF YOU KILL SOMEONE THEN YOU DESERVE TO DIE FOR IT - IF YOUR PROOVED TO HAVE KILLED ACCIDENTALLY CUT THERE ARM OFF OR SOMETHING, NOT GIVE THEM A JOB AND LUXURIES...

I think you’re a bit to harsh there belial. I mean accidents do happen and if it was a genuine accident and you are genuinely sorry you shouldn’t get your arm cut off. A big fine and 7 maybe 8 years in prison should sort you out. Amnesty International wouldn’t approve of Britain copping peoples hands and legs off.

[strangely~obsessed]

3- I am willing to live with the current crime rate if it means freedom from a government that cuts limbs off offenders and kills citizens. We value due process. Many, many of my countrymen have died to preserve due process of our law and a freedom from cruel and unusual punishment. I'm not going to disgrace their sacrafices because I'm an angry and emotional person with poor logic reasoning ability.

So you are trying to say that its ok for evil citizens to kill innocent citizens, but its not ok for the government trying to protect those who are innocent by eliminating and making an example of the evil citizens in fact murders. I think that’s a bit unjust. If you have it your way we’d have mayhem over here!

[Neognosis]

if it was a genuine accident and you are genuinely sorry you shouldn’t get your arm cut off. A big fine and 7 maybe 8 years in prison should sort you out.

8 years for an accident?

For an ACCIDENT? do you mean something other than an "accident" involving drugs and/or alcohol and driving?

[The Silver Thong]

I will have to side with Talon on this one. Talon did not say that a guy who stole your wallet would get the dp so that argument is shot. Murders,rapists and violent criminals you know, the the ones that beat you so bad your in the hospital for a month recovering would be the one's on death row and no 10 years wait either. The dp is to stop re-offenders and I'm for it. I'm sick of these guys with rap sheet a mile long getting out over and over. How many times muders are caught and it's there first crime? How many rapists are caught that wouldn't re-offend? no one knows but if I had a daughter and she was raped and killed by a repeat offender hmmm I might become the killer.

[Neognosis]

So you are trying to say that its ok for evil citizens to kill innocent citizens, but its not ok for the government trying to protect those who are innocent by eliminating and making an example of the evil citizens in fact murders. I think that’s a bit unjust. If you have it your way we’d have mayhem over here!

Did I ever say it was OK for citizens to kill each other? DID I EVER SAY THAT?

I am saying that it is not OK for the government to "protect" those who are innocent by eliminating and making an example...blah blah blah.

Yes, that's wrong. A government should not have the right to kill it's own citizens.

I have my way over here in NY, and it's not mayhem. And I think that currently, in Britian it's my way too, and look...no mayhem. Let's see, where else in Europe is there no death penalty and yet there is not mayhem?

Try to read what I post instead of what you have been miseducated to believe I will post.

[Neognosis]

Talon did not say that a guy who stole your wallet would get the dp so that argument is shot. Murders,rapists and violent criminals you know, the the ones that beat you so bad your in the hospital for a month recovering would be the one's on death row and no 10 years wait either.

if you started using it on burglars and muggers where there is a little more thought put into the crime then I bet you they’d be crime would drop.

So why should a guy who originally wanted to mug me and take my wallet stop from killing me? The penalty is the same, and now i might be able to identify him.

It doesn't matter anyway, criminals do not reason cause and effect like normal people. Talon's logic is wrong.

no 10 years wait either

So no due process of law either? Nice. Who's unpatriotic now?

Edited November 20, 2007 by Neognosis

[Bill Hill]

well, if someone took or tried to take my wallet, unfortunately for them...they would be in extreme danger..

I don't believe in British Justice..

Edited November 20, 2007 by Billy of the Hill

[The Silver Thong]

So why should a guy who originally wanted to mug me and take my wallet stop from killing me? The penalty is the same, and now i might be able to identify him.

It doesn't matter anyway, criminals do not reason cause and effect like normal people. Talon's logic is wrong.

So no due process of law either? Nice. Who's unpatriotic now?

Where did I say stealing a wallet warrented the dp?

You say " criminals do not reason cause and effect like normal people" so way put them in jail for a few years and let them out?

The courts are clogged with apeal after apeal. I see no reason as to why it takes so long sometime 20 yrs for a sentence to be carried out.

I would just want a more efficient court system, whats wrong with that.

[Neognosis]

well, if someone took or tried to take my wallet, unfortunately for them...they would be in extreme danger..

rolling eyes...

Edited November 20, 2007 by Neognosis

[atom286]

Well we had a discussion in my Amnesty International group before about the Death penalty in America and how it differed from the death penalty in South Arabia. And it was brought to my attention that Britain doesn’t have the death penalty. I think that it would be a great idea for them to bring it back in a more updated way rather than the old guillotine. It would make people here stop and think before they committed murder or other crimes which could be punishable by death. What do you guys think?

Actually Britain still retains the death penalty for treason and for witchcraft. If getting the death penalty for witchcraft makes you laugh the last person to be executed for it was inear the end of WW2.

As for the death penalty for other crimes I'm all for it. I dont believe in this Liberal nonsence of not executing them because it causes suffering to the criminal. In fact Im all for state sponsored torturing of criminals.

If that sounds barbaric then good. The scum of the Earth should be given the treatment they deserve. Get them hung drawn and quatered.

[RockChickUK]

I have to say I am 50/50 on this.

One of the main problems here in the UK is the sentences people are given, its an absolute joke.

There are some crimes that I just don't think ANY sentence would mean justice has been served. My biggest gripe with the UK is the way that Paedophiles get such short sentences when its been proven time and time again that the crime they have been convicted of and sent to jail for isn't their first of that nature and other offenders come out and reoffend more or less straight away. I would have no problem in saying let all Paedophiles and child molesters get the Death Penalty...forget all this human rights tripe, offering them counselling or chemical castration etc...that doesn't help anything, their twisted thoughts will still be there and although they couldn't fully act on it they could still get access to child porn etc.

Let those people die an awful death while their surviving victims still suffer on a daily basis. No guilt there from me.

As many have said, others will always be there to replace the criminals but getting rid of every filthy piece of scum who has ever abused a child seems the only sure fire way of making sure they can't REOFFEND.

I don't know whether I would agree to the death penalty for other crimes. Simply make prison a punishment. Take away their every day comforts...forget Playstations and Xbox's and the like. Make prison the most miserable place on earth.

I know someone who served 7 years in prison when he was young and foolish for drug dealing (he was an heroin addict too) and although he regrets what he did and is now a law abiding citizen with a home, wife and child etc, he said those 7 years were the easiest of his life, a walk in the park, just at times a little boring...poor him.

Incidently, a man who lived next door but one to me abused 5 of my friends (one of them his niece who's family he lived with) over a period of 5 years got a 4 year sentence and was able to write letters to every girl he abused asking for forgiveness as part of his therapy....WTF??

The British justice system is a joke and adding the death penalty to it would only make matters worse, because those people who deserve it (molesters and rapists) would probably slip through the net.

Rant over.