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DHS Supplier Provides Shooting Targets of


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#61    Uncle Sam

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

With the number of open carry states in America and the right to bear arms and defend your home and property being legal. This would be a stupid thing to train for and can only be viewed as an agitative act by DHS towards us the citizens.

Exactly. They would have a bad day if encountered me in a rebellion if they push to far.

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#62    OverSword

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

DHS was formed why?..........To fight terrorists.  So explain again why these scenarios need to be practiced by DHS?


#63    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:28 PM

We have very little Federal intervention in Oregon besides there court system. We are also an open carry state and have a threshold law that if someone enters your home you can shoot to kill. So if the DHS/LEO enter without a warrant you are free to kill them as well and will likely not be imprisoned for it. If you let them in your screwing yourself. And will have to submit to whatever they do behind closed doors.


#64    Drayno

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostOverSword, on 20 February 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

DHS was formed why?..........To fight terrorists.  So explain again why these scenarios need to be practiced by DHS?

Like in many Dystopian novels the current regime views political opponents as dreadful enemies.

Liberty lovers (you know, the word written on our currency), believers in the Second Amendment, returning Veterans, Libertarians - we're all domestic terrorists.

And just like in many Dystopian novels the word "terrorist" will be thrown around liberally to describe anyone who is an opponent to the establishment.

The NDAA specified the United States as the battleground - the inhabitants who aren't Progressives are the terrorists.

Edited by Eonwe, 20 February 2013 - 08:32 PM.

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#65    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostMerc14, on 20 February 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

These targets are for desensitizing shooters to people that any civilized person would hesitate to shoot.  The thing is, how many times in the last decade has a pregnant white woman attacked a LEO or a little white kid pulled a pistol on a LEO?  I'd bet in the last decade it has happened once or twice so just WITF is the point of practicing against such a threat?  This should be front page news but then again, the liberals have no qualms because it is their guy in the White House.

Whats the point? Because it accomplishes 2 different things for the price of 1. It accomplishes just normal shooting practice (as would a picture of any bad guy), and it helps desensitize them to shooting a non-traditional hostile target if they ever do encounter one.

Youngest school shooter:
http://en.wikipedia....f_Kayla_Rolland

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#66    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 20 February 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

The point isn't guns.  It's that it's your average law abiding citizen fed up with tyranny and the need to desensitize the troops that would normally side with the people.  I'm surprise that they don't have a target like this:

http://i.istockimg.c...nting-a-gun.jpg

Or even this one:

http://files.schumin...fawkes-mask.jpg

The point is to desensitize the people their training so that they dont loose their life due to hesitation. THAT is the point.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#67    OverSword

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostStellar, on 20 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Youngest school shooter:
http://en.wikipedia....f_Kayla_Rolland

Misleading a little?  He wasn't exactly a school shooter the gun went off in his back pack.  Your anequdotes are lame.


#68    Uncle Sam

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostStellar, on 20 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Whats the point? Because it accomplishes 2 different things for the price of 1. It accomplishes just normal shooting practice (as would a picture of any bad guy), and it helps desensitize them to shooting a non-traditional hostile target if they ever do encounter one.

Youngest school shooter:
http://en.wikipedia....f_Kayla_Rolland

What is your deal man? What if it was you that is staring down the sight of barrel in your face by DHS? Second Amendment gives us the right to rebel against a tyrant government or oppressive government, those who do so to free our nation again will be considered terrorists by the government. Common sense dictates that they are training to face this type of scenario, because majority of the rebellion would in fact would contain every race and creed of Americans there is. Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from. You got to understand, this is a dual use and immoral decision by the government to depict the very people they are sworn to protect as threats or enemies of the very establishment.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 20 February 2013 - 08:52 PM.

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#69    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

That is a likely scenario Stellar. Recent history has an old man holed up in a bunker with a young  boy and they were able to extract him using tactical training techniques.

So the fact the old man has a gun and is willing to defend his home is not an obscure idea in America.

My god AsteroidX---thank you. Finally someone rational in this thread.

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#70    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Those arent paper targets btw. There scenario targets.

... made out of paper...

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#71    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:58 PM

Quote

But let's say a cop has orders to confiscate your weapons and forcefully enters your property - what would you do? Do you believe a man has no right to defend himself on his own land just because the person going after him, albeit crooked, is still a "cop"?

You clearly miss the intent of the target. This isnt a discussion about the "right" of the "person in the picture" because the right of the person in the picture depends on the circumstances --- something that a "paper target" doesnt have.

The cop, whenever he enters a house with his weapon drawn, needs to be able to protect himself and his own life, and that is the point of these types of non-traditional targets.

We can use an Afghanistan scenario: Does an Afghan not have the right to defend himself on his own land just because the people on his land are soldiers? Well, I can tell you this: It doesnt matter what the "rights" are of the Afghan man because if he's holding a weapon up ready to shoot at a soldier, the soldier is supposed to be trained to shoot and kill him before the man shoots them.

Quote

They are afraid of those that believe in the Constitution and are willing to stand up to tyranny.
Yeah... and you got all that from a paper target?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina

#72    rashore

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

I read the two update articles infowars had attached to the OP article... They do not know if DHS has purchased any of these particular targets or not. They seem to have had a confirmation of LEO purchase.


#73    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostStellar, on 20 February 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

The point is to desensitize the people their training so that they dont loose their life due to hesitation. THAT is the point.

Don't you think that its unwise to desensitize the police or DHS or any other entity that has firearms and might be put into situations where they have to make quick decisions about our lifes or deaths? Perhaps there is a good reason to hesitate when pointing a weapon at a pregnant lady? Namely, a "What the **** am I doing" reason.

Imagine if citizens were desensitizing themselves with inappropriate targets, would you have a problem with that? There is a reason we are sensitive around women/children/elderly. Mostly because they are the most vunerable people in our society and need protection, not a desensitized police state.

As for the "its only paper" arguement; its not about the material, its about the intent. The intent of the target is to represent a pregnant woman or child.


#74    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

Quote

The point is to desensitize the people their training so that they dont loose their life due to hesitation. THAT is the point.

If they are shooting at pregnant women children and old men and can tell you who Im going to route for. Minus the pschotic crazed shooter scenarios theres others ways of dealing with these scenarios.


#75    Stellar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

Quote

The military deals with pregnant women carrying guns in Afghanistan and Iraq all the time. They aren't going to be surprised.

Its not about "surprise" its about hesitation and desensitization. Thats why targets arent bullseye targets anymore.

Coming from a soldiers perspective (and someone who's trained new recruits) I understand the importance of desensitzing them so that it doesnt matter *what* the target looks like, they pull the trigger when they're in their rights to do so.


The paper targets arent going to "brainwash" people into thinking that every pregnant white woman is a badguy. The paper targets are going to reduce the chances that the LEO (or whatever the DHS officers call themselves) hesitates if they ever encounter one.



The target itself is made of paper. It has no "story". It can be placed into any context, any scenario ranging from "Go in and kill everything for no reason" to "that pregnant woman lost her daughter and went nuts, deciding no one else's children should live".

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

----Seraphina




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