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Al-Qaida's No. 2 KILLED!


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#211    krone

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:53 AM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 10 September 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

What do you propose as a solution Coffey?  Certainly can't sit idly by and just wait for the next attack to take place, right?

What's this then?  "To all problems, there are exactly two solutions: 1) start an illegal war of retribution or 2) sit idly by and wait for the next attack"?  If that's the case why do we even bother putting metal detectors in airports, removing dangerous weapons from carry on or employing CIA to investigate and prevent terror attacks?  If any of those things had happened, 9/11 would not have.  It was a failure of U.S. security, plain and simple.  

...and please don't even try and argue that people shouldn't want to attack the U.S. in the first place because they have wanted to since the U.S. got involved with WWII (and probably before that)... not to mention the fact that the U.S. has been courting controversy in wartime ever since.  If the American administration wants to bully the world, it can't afford to fall asleep on the watch.  Ever.

Of course the alternative is that it can stop bullying the world and relax but who would ever realistically support that??

Edited by krone, 20 September 2012 - 07:57 AM.


#212    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:18 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 20 September 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Much better than under the control of Saddam Hussein, a madman who planned to use his control of Persian Gulf oil to exert his power around the world.



Let's take another look.

Saudis emerge as key US ally against terrorists


WASHINGTON (AP) — A decade after hijackers mostly from Saudi Arabia attacked the United States with passenger jets, the Saudis have emerged as the principal ally of the U.S. against al-Qaida's spinoff group in Yemen and at least twice have disrupted plots to explode sophisticated bombs aboard airlines.

Details emerging about the latest unraveled plot revealed that a Saudi double agent fooled the terror group, known as al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, passing himself off as an eager would-be suicide bomber. Instead, he secretly turned over the group's most up-to-date underwear bomb to Saudi Arabia, which gave it to the CIA. Before he was whisked to safety, the spy provided intelligencethat helped the CIA kill al-Qaida's senior operations leader, Fahd al-Quso, who died in a drone strike last weekend.
http://news.yahoo.co...-222306969.html
yes, and don't anyone try to use the argument about the US being interested in spreading "Freedom" or "Democracy" or "liberating the oppressed peoples of ...." in its military adventures, if countries like that are a key US ally against terrorists.


.. and please, don't tell me you believe that Saddam wanted to rule the World ..... ? :unsure2:

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#213    skyeagle409

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Post747400, on 20 September 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

yes, and don't anyone try to use the argument about the US being interested in spreading "Freedom" or "Democracy" or "liberating the oppressed peoples of ...." in its military adventures, if countries like that are a key US ally against terrorists.


.. and please, don't tell me you believe that Saddam wanted to rule the World ..... ? :unsure2:

Not to control the world, just control the oil the world uses.

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#214    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 20 September 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Not to control the world, just control the oil the world uses.
I do agree that was so much safer in the hands of Pres. Bush, someone who had no ambitions at all of global dominance ....
:unsure2:   :innocent:

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#215    regeneratia

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:16 PM

How many times have we been told he has been killed? LOL!
I don't like lies.

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#216    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:00 PM

View Postregeneratia, on 20 September 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

How many times have we been told he has been killed? LOL!
I don't like lies.
I think it's just that that job does not seem to be noted for its job security.
Imagine getting the letter: "regarding your application for the position of Second in Command of the Global Terror Network and Chief henchman to the Evil mastermind*. We are pleased to inform you that this position has unexpectedly become vacant, and we are pleased to be able to offer you the position, starting at your earliest convenience." You'd run for the hills, wouldn't you.

* who is the Evil mastermind now, anyway?

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#217    Babe Ruth

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:01 PM

Secrecy IS the hallmark of tyranny, no doubt.

RIP Robert Heinlein.


#218    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

View PostQ24, on 20 September 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

I wrote the below post over 2 years ago.  There might be a few additional bullets now but the gist would be the same .  It contains common sense steps that could have been taken post 9/11 to make America safer, bring those responsible for the attack to justice and reduce terrorism.  I believe the suggestions made, compared to what actually happened, show the difference between the expected reaction of a President interested in the truth and concerned by terrorism and, well... President Bush using a staged pretext.

http://www.unexplain...0

The end point is that none of the common sense steps were taken, whilst the war was nonsensical and counterproductive to preventing terrorism.

Well put together Q, there's very little there that I have any disagreement with.

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#219    regeneratia

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:22 PM

View Post747400, on 20 September 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think it's just that that job does not seem to be noted for its job security.
Imagine getting the letter: "regarding your application for the position of Second in Command of the Global Terror Network and Chief henchman to the Evil mastermind*. We are pleased to inform you that this position has unexpectedly become vacant, and we are pleased to be able to offer you the position, starting at your earliest convenience." You'd run for the hills, wouldn't you.

* who is the Evil mastermind now, anyway?

Run for the hills?! Bah!
All I would have to do is apply to the CIA  to inquire about the job and I have the job!! LOL, but it isn't really that funny. But it is true.

For below: Yeppers, he has a lot to teach us, even about terrorism and government reactions to terrorism. The guy nearly knew it all.


View PostBabe Ruth, on 20 September 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Secrecy IS the hallmark of tyranny, no doubt.

RIP Robert Heinlein.


Edited by regeneratia, 20 September 2012 - 07:22 PM.

Truth is such a rare quality, a stranger so seldom met in this civilization of fraud, that it is never received freely, but must fight its way into the world
Professor Hilton Hotema
(quote from THE BIBLE FRAUD)

Robert Heinlein: SECRECY IS THE HALLMARK OF TYRANNY!

#220    skyeagle409

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:00 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 20 September 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Secrecy IS the hallmark of tyranny, no doubt.

Loose lips sink ships.

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#221    skyeagle409

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

View Post747400, on 20 September 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

You'd run for the hills, wouldn't you.


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#222    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 21 September 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:



When the United States goes after terrorist, you see America as the bad guy, not the terrorist who killed thousands of innocent people.
if the U.S. did kill terrorists and only terrorists, and there was no doubt that they were terrorists, maybe the U.S. might be seen more charitably by many in other parts of the world. When we only have the U.S. Govt.'s word that whoever they kill are Terrorists, and the U.S. can, it seems, declare anyone at all who it might kill to be a Terrorist, or fires missiles into villages because somewhere in there is, or might be, a Terrorist, then some people do have difficulty having as much sympathy for the U.S. as they might do. I'm afraid the idea of retributive killing is something that was rather frowned upon by the US itself during WWII, for example, when the Germans did it in retalitation for attacks on their troops. i believe the phrase "War crimes" was one that was used. is there really any difference in a firing squad shooting a few dozen villagers, because among them may be one or two Resistance, and firing a SuperSlaughterer missile into a village because in there somewhere is a Terrorist?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#223    skyeagle409

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

View Post747400, on 21 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

if the U.S. did kill terrorists and only terrorists, and there was no doubt that they were terrorists, maybe the U.S. might be seen more charitably by many in other parts of the world. When we only have the U.S. Govt.'s word that whoever they kill are Terrorists, and the U.S. can, it seems, declare anyone at all who it might kill to be a Terrorist, or fires missiles into villages because somewhere in there is, or might be, a Terrorist, then some people do have difficulty having as much sympathy for the U.S. as they might do.

We can gage the success of a mission by analyzing terrorist communications and their responses, but in many cases, the terrorist were tracked long before the first shot was fired by drone crews who are based thousands of miles away.

Quote

I'm afraid the idea of retributive killing is something that was rather frowned upon by the US itself during WWII, for example, when the Germans did it in retalitation for attacks on their troops. i believe the phrase "War crimes" was one that was used. is there really any difference in a firing squad shooting a few dozen villagers, because among them may be one or two Resistance, and firing a SuperSlaughterer missile into a village because in there somewhere is a Terrorist?

With boots on the ground, a  captured terrorist can be soaked for intelligence information, which can be very valuable in the long run, so you don't  want to go overboard and kill a terrorist who can provide valuable intelligence information if it can be avoided, which is why we have taken many, many prisoners rather than play 'shoot 'em up at the OK Corral,' however, that is a bit difficult when a group terrorist are firing on friendly troops with friendly airpower overheard.

Edited by skyeagle409, 21 September 2012 - 09:22 PM.

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#224    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:06 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 21 September 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

We can gage the success of a mission by analyzing terrorist communications and their responses, but in many cases, the terrorist were tracked long before the first shot was fired by drone crews who are based thousands of miles away.



With boots on the ground, a  captured terrorist can be soaked for intelligence information, which can be very valuable in the long run, so you don't  want to go overboard and kill a terrorist who can provide valuable intelligence information if it can be avoided, which is why we have taken many, many prisoners rather than play 'shoot 'em up at the OK Corral,' however, that is a bit difficult when a group terrorist are firing on friendly troops with friendly airpower overheard.
That's the problem with Uncle Sam's retributive justice by remote control, isn't it ; I do agree with your latter point, even though (like, it seems, with bin L), things can still go wrong in the heat of the action, but with remote robo-drone strikes from thousand of miles away, you have to rely on whatever information it was that put you on to them in the first place that they are indeed the Terrorist mastermind you want, and then you have to be sure that the one you're tracking (and don't they all look the same from 10,000 feet), is indeed the Terrorist mastermind you are bent on revenge on. And then, really, honeslty and truly, does anyone really beleive that, having fired your Hellhound missile, just your target and your target alone will be killed, and no one else will even be scratched? or is the attitude that "they were harbouring a Terrorist Mastermind, so if they didn't hand him over, well, I'm afraid they deserved it"? That really is an attitude no different from that of an SS squad torching a village because they were harbouring Terrorists, or as we'd call them, Resistance fighters, I'm afraid. The U.S. really has very, very shaky moral legs to stand on if it wants to dictate moral standards to the rest of the world.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#225    skyeagle409

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:26 PM

View Post747400, on 22 September 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

That's the problem with Uncle Sam's retributive justice by remote control, isn't it ; I do agree with your latter point, even though (like, it seems, with bin L), things can still go wrong in the heat of the action, but with remote robo-drone strikes from thousand of miles away, you have to rely on whatever information it was that put you on to them in the first place that they are indeed the Terrorist mastermind you want, and then you have to be sure that the one you're tracking (and don't they all look the same from 10,000 feet), is indeed the Terrorist mastermind you are bent on revenge on.

Altitude is no problem because the crew can focus on things close-up if there is a need, not to mention other assets available to them. And, in many cases before a strike is conducted, we have already built a large data base from other technological and human resources, In addition, a license plate can be read from more than two miles away.

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http://www.af.mil/in...eet.asp?id=6405

Edited by skyeagle409, 22 September 2012 - 09:31 PM.

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