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People who claim to heal other people.


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#1    ShaunZero

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:20 AM

I'm confused as to wether or not this is wrong. I thought only Jesus could heal people. I see all these crazy things on TV. A man will call people up onto the stage who have illnesses, put his hand and their head and "OHH!, I'm healed!). Im just wondering, what are your thoughts on this. Please show me scriptures from the bible to proove your beleif.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" ~ George Carlin
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#2    Mad Manfred

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:07 AM

Its all bullshit.

Healing Televangelists prey on the lonely, sick and gullible. People like that need to be put in gaol.

I also believe phoney seers like John Edward and Sylvia Brown need to be arrested for the damage they could potentially cause, but thats another matter.


#3    Amalgamut

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:11 AM

QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Jun 3 2005, 12:20 AM)
I'm confused as to wether or not this is wrong. I thought only Jesus could heal people. I see all these crazy things on TV. A man will call people up onto the stage who have illnesses, put his hand and their head and "OHH!, I'm healed!). Im just wondering, what are your thoughts on this. Please show me scriptures from the bible to proove your beleif.

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You are right my friend. These people are using "miracles" to gain respect and to make more money. The are glorifying themselves by using God's name. These people are the leaders of a certain type of church. This type of church is known as the "Church of Laodiea" talked about in Revelation....

To the Church in Laodicea

"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation.

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold- I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say , 'I am rich; I have aquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shamefull nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. He how has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
(Revelation 3:14-21)

LUKEWARM= Cold water is good as well as hot water. However, lukewarm water is nasty. Basically this is a church that says they worship Christ on the outside, but on the inside they do not.  They are hypocrites.

NEITHER COLD, NOR HOT= It is almost better to be downright atheist, than to say you are a believer on the outside yet you think the complete opposite on the inside. Not only this, but you go on preaching to others while holding this mentality.

A RICH CHURCH, YET POOR= This church has plasma screen TV's, coffee shops, movie cameras flying around in the church, brand new pews, brand new books, glorious fountains, glorious image's inside the church, just about every form of materialism that you can fit into a church. They are rich in material, yet poor in the name of the Lord.

NAKED= The church is naked from the blood of Christ. They are fake.

STAND AT THE DOOR AND KNOCK= You do not knock on the door of an entire church, you knock at the door of a home. Christ is saying he is knocking at certain doors of certain people. He does not condemn all of the people in the church, only certain people. There are certain people of a church that classify it as Laodicean. He stands at their doors and knocks, "he who hath an ear let him hear."

Now, this scripture does not directly come out and say "people that perform miracles in the name of God are bad," however it is classified with those people that perform miracles, in terms of the type of church. It is almost something that is encoded in this scripture. When you look at someone on TV showing off "miracles" they fall right into this type of church. Also, keep in mind that this is the type of church that will be in full swing just prior to the Rapture. This church is in our time. Now, for how long it will go on is unknown...

Going on TV and performing miracles through "the holy spirit" is not something that someone can command (except for Christ and God).

The Holy Spirit comes and goes through God's will, not through the wave of a preachers hand. By doing this, they are imitating God. They are counterfeit Christians. They themselves are trying to be God. "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord...." Now, a preacher can come up to you and lay his hands on you, and pray. This is not an imitation of Christ. But when certain TV evangelists call people up on stage and say "In the name of God you will be saved! Hallelujah!!" and the person falls down and then gets up and  says "Yes!" you healed me!. That is complete crap. That is 100% Laodicean. They are raping the church for money. They are rich but yet poor.

We see more in Thessalonians...

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance to the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders."
(Thess 2:9)

Edited by Amalgamut, 03 June 2005 - 08:15 AM.

Why tiptoe quietly through life just to arrive safely at death?

#4    Amalgamut

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 08:13 AM

QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:07 AM)
Its all bullshit.

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I like your version much better. That is honesty the best way to sum it up in the simplest form.

Why tiptoe quietly through life just to arrive safely at death?

#5    lismore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Jun 3 2005, 06:20 AM)
I'm confused as to wether or not this is wrong. I thought only Jesus could heal people. I see all these crazy things on TV. A man will call people up onto the stage who have illnesses, put his hand and their head and "OHH!, I'm healed!). Im just wondering, what are your thoughts on this. Please show me scriptures from the bible to proove your beleif.

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original.gif

James 5: 14         Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven

Matthew 10: 7      As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[b]drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.


Mark 5: 23  My little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live." 24So Jesus went with him.

Luke 4:  40When the sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them

Acts 28: 8       His father was sick in bed, suffering from fever and dysentery. Paul went in to see him and, after prayer, placed his hands on him and healed him. 9When this had happened, the rest of the sick on the island came and were cured.






From the lone shieling of the misty island
Mountains divide us, and the waste of seas;
Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland,
And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.

#6    lismore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 10:07 AM

QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Jun 3 2005, 06:20 AM)
I'm confused as to wether or not this is wrong. I thought only Jesus could heal people. I see all these crazy things on TV. A man will call people up onto the stage who have illnesses, put his hand and their head and "OHH!, I'm healed!). Im just wondering, what are your thoughts on this. Please show me scriptures from the bible to proove your beleif.

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Mark 16: 17        And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Acts  12The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon's Colonnade.

Acts 4: 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, 10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed


Acts 5:  15As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil[a] spirits, and all of them were healed.
  
Acts 8:  5Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Christ[a]there. 6When the crowds heard Philip and saw the miraculous signs he did, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7With shrieks, evil[b] spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and cripples were healed. 8So there was great joy in that city.

Acts 14:  9He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10and called out, "Stand up on your feet!" At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.





From the lone shieling of the misty island
Mountains divide us, and the waste of seas;
Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland,
And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.

#7    Super Pancake

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 12:26 PM

Jesus was a man and God said all men are equal so why not believe in them as healers innocent.gif from God if you believe in Jesus, Just my opinion.

I don't believe in Christianity period. thumbup.gif


#8    Mad Manfred

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 01:32 PM

QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 3 2005, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:07 AM)
Its all bullshit.

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I like your version much better. That is honesty the best way to sum it up in the simplest form.

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Blunt and straight to the point. The only way to go  thumbsup.gif


#9    hyperactive

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 01:55 PM

QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 2 2005, 11:07 PM)
Its all bullshit.

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+

QUOTE(Super Pancake @ Jun 3 2005, 04:26 AM)
Jesus was a man and God said all men are equal so why not believe in them as healers innocent.gif from God if you believe in Jesus

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=

reality.


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#10    lismore

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:32 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 3 2005, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:07 AM)
Its all bullshit.

View Post


I like your version much better. That is honesty the best way to sum it up in the simplest form.

View Post



Blunt and straight to the point. The only way to go  thumbsup.gif

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Ya Man  tongue.gif

Its bull for you because you lack faith!


Matthew 17:20 NIV  Read this Chapter
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."



From the lone shieling of the misty island
Mountains divide us, and the waste of seas;
Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland,
And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.

#11    mako

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 02:07 PM

As I have said before - faith has no place in a religion....if a religion requires faith to accept it's stories and dogma, then it is just another mythology - period, no discussion!!!! -  yes.gif  Mako

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#12    hyperactive

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 02:09 PM

QUOTE(lismore @ Jun 3 2005, 06:03 AM)
Matthew 17:20 NIV  Read this Chapter
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

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so is that where the "faith can move mountains" line came from?

a pitty they didn't use faith to build the railroad through the mountains rather than nitro.  it could have saved quite a few lives!  then again we could still be waiting for the mountains to move.  cool.gif  rolleyes.gif


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#13    ShaunZero

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 04:18 PM

I always thought it was bull sh**, but now lismore made many good points. I dont really know what to beleive.... O_o....

My girlfriend and her brother both said that once, they were in church and this woman had one leg longer than the other. A man put his hand over her head and started praying and her leg started popping back into place and growing right in front of their eyes.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" ~ George Carlin
Are you a cynic?

#14    marduk

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 06:02 PM

QUOTE(ZeroShadow @ Jun 3 2005, 05:18 PM)
I always thought it was bull sh**, but now lismore made many good points. I dont really know what to beleive.... O_o....

My girlfriend and her brother both said that once, they were in church and this woman had one leg longer than the other. A man put his hand over her head and started praying and her leg started popping back into place and growing right in front of their eyes.

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I take it this thread only applies to evangelist "praise the lord" healers
Faith healing is a recognised phenomena but the power comes from the individual,
not the healer
as for reiki, magnetic and spiritual healing and plain ole doctors ?
whats wrong with it if it works
and that faith move mountains quote is a load of crap.
if you think otherwise then prove it by moving a mountain.
everest would make a good example.
thumbsup.gif

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If you want to know the truth make sure you can handle it before you ask

#15    Mad Manfred

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 03:55 AM

QUOTE(lismore @ Jun 4 2005, 01:03 AM)
QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:32 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 3 2005, 07:13 PM)
QUOTE(Mad Manfred @ Jun 3 2005, 01:07 AM)
Its all bullshit.

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I like your version much better. That is honesty the best way to sum it up in the simplest form.

View Post



Blunt and straight to the point. The only way to go  thumbsup.gif

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Ya Man  tongue.gif

Its bull for you because you lack faith!

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Oh I have faith. I just don't like placing my faith in fiction  wink2.gif





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