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A Proof That God Exists


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#1    Ben Masada

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:35 PM

A PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS.

According to Moses Maimonides, a Philosopher, Theologian and Medical Doctor in his book "The Guide for the Perplexed," there would be no need for a Creator if the universe was eternal, without beginning or end. In other words, God would not exist. However, if the universe did have a beginning, God by necessity would exist.

From Abraham and until Aristotle God existed only for the pious who could exercise faith. For Cosmologists God had only been a probability;
extremely small nevertheless a probability. At the time of Aristotle that small probability had been erased as Aristotle discovered that the
universe was eternal; no beginning and no end. The pious went on with their faith but as Science was concerned, the non-existence of God had been established.

The line of thought that God's existence was depending on the universe having had a beginning lasted from about 330 BCE with Aristotle and until 1922 ACE with Georges Lemaitre a Catholic priest who brought the news about the Big Bang to the whole world as the beginning of the universe. Cosmologists throughout the world had to adopt Lemaitre's discovery as the nearest approach to the truth they had ever achieved. Now, since the universe had indeed a beginning, a proof had be established for the existence of God, blessed be He!

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#2    ChewiesArmy

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:59 PM

But we don't know if the universe is eternal, infinite, large, small...etc. Who is to say the big bang was the actual beginning?

Not to get into the whole 'the proof for or against God' argument, but this is why I am so conflcted when it comes to God, religion, and creationism vs evolutionism. Nobody knows anything for sure. I like to believe there is a god, but the bible kills my belief. I like the bible, I like the stories with Jesus, and I hope there is a God, but so much of it is so improbable. I look at evolutionism the same way, as in, there is so much that science doesn't really know...but it makes sense, kind of...although also very improbable.

I guess I don't see the necessary proof in either explanation.

Edited by ChewiesArmy, 25 March 2013 - 09:59 PM.

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#3    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 25 March 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Now, since the universe had indeed a beginning, a proof had be established for the existence of God, blessed be He!
I'm sorry, but as a proof of the existence of any kind of deity this fails totally.

The following statement:

View PostBen Masada, on 25 March 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

However, if the universe did have a beginning, God by necessity would exist
can not be considered to be proof since it has no supporting evidence to back it up. It is no different to me saying "if Manchester United win the English premiership the Moon, by necessity, must be made of cheese."

Unless I can establish a necessity for the Moon being made of cheese if Man Utd win the premiership then there is absolutely no logical validity to my statement. They are unconnected facts.

The same holds true with your argument, for it to be proof of God you must establish that a Universe with a beginning can only exist if there is a god. Without that all you have is a logical fallacy.

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 25 March 2013 - 10:05 PM.

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#4    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:46 AM

Before the existance of modern science, people generally viewed the universe as being similar to bread dough. It had no definate shape, except for the shape God molded it to be. This stance is understandable considering how little they knew at the time. However now with Modern science, people have learned more and more that the universe is something more of a gigantic machine that runs on and on like a clock, and yet for some reason people suddenly assume based on this knew found truth that the universe must have suddenly created and designed itself. To me the fact that the universe undoubtedly has a beginning, and has laws that are ever so perfectly fine tuned to support life, is even more proof of the existance of God rather than the original "bread dough" idea.

God does exist and he can be scientifically proven, so that mankind is without excuse. The biggest evidence can be found simply in the air you breath every day, but nevertheless, more proof has, can, and will be given.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#5    MysticStrummer

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:59 AM

http://www.redorbit....e_the_universe/

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#6    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:14 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 26 March 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

God does exist and he can be scientifically proven, so that mankind is without excuse. The biggest evidence can be found simply in the air you breath every day, but nevertheless, more proof has, can, and will be given.

Where is the proof?

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#7    ChewiesArmy

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 26 March 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

To me the fact that the universe undoubtedly has a beginning, and has laws that are ever so perfectly fine tuned to support life, is even more proof of the existance of God rather than the original "bread dough" idea.

How do we know it has universal laws? What maybe a law in our part of the Universe maybe an anomaly compared to the rest of the universe. I never understood how scientists can say something is a law of the universe. I guess because it's all we know?

"And how do you know God doesn't swear? Especially taking a good look at the human race, it must be a part of his daily ritual" -Lewis Black

#8    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:29 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 26 March 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Where is the proof?

There are none so blind than those who do not wish to see.

View PostChewiesArmy, on 26 March 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

How do we know it has universal laws? What maybe a law in our part of the Universe maybe an anomaly compared to the rest of the universe. I never understood how scientists can say something is a law of the universe. I guess because it's all we know?

Do we know for a fact? No. Of course just about everything requires at least a little faith. However are we reasonably certain based on scientific evidence? You betcha. If just one of the laws were altered just ever so slightly, than the universe could not form properly, and if any of the laws were different in other areas of the universe, than we would most likely see something suggesting it as such.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#9    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:36 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 26 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Do we know for a fact? No. Of course just about everything requires at least a little faith. However are we reasonably certain based on scientific evidence? You betcha. If just one of the laws were altered just ever so slightly, than the universe could not form properly, and if any of the laws were different in other areas of the universe, than we would most likely see something suggesting it as such.

If one takes into consideration possiable muliverse theory. Then there is an infinite amount of universes, all having there own laws, based on how they I guess orginally started etc. Therefore is would be an infinite amount of universes that do not support life. Obviously we are in one that does. This is just probabillity, Not God.

My opinion anyways :)
Thanks

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#10    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:46 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 26 March 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

If one takes into consideration possiable muliverse theory. Then there is an infinite amount of universes, all having there own laws, based on how they I guess orginally started etc. Therefore is would be an infinite amount of universes that do not support life. Obviously we are in one that does. This is just probabillity, Not God.

My opinion anyways :)
Thanks

Thus reaising the question however, where did the multiverse come from?... It just keeps backing up to the point of which everything came from literally nothing, which just can't be explained. So even with "multiverse theory," it still goes right back to the same point.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#11    pallidin

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:51 AM

I don't think God can be proven.

After all, that would snap me out of my insanity and I don't think the Devil wants that.  :devil:


#12    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 26 March 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

There are none so blind than those who do not wish to see.

The bible is not proof, it is claims.

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#13    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:02 AM

View Postpallidin, on 26 March 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

I don't think God can be proven.

You and many other people as well. I think that if the truth can be known about many other things, then why not God? It only stands to reason that if we can know for a fact about many other sciences, than we can know for a fact about God.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#14    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:13 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 26 March 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

The bible is not proof, it is claims.

First, I never mentioned the bible.

Second, you just attempted to counter a supposed "claim" with a claim.

Third, you proved my point that your position is not rational, it is volitional. If you were rational you would be open to all possibilities, at least to those that could be supported by evidence. However instead you respond with rash opposition.

You do not want to find God. You have already decided you do not like him, nor want anything to do with him. I'll respect your decision, however I will not waste my time ministering to the volitionally blind.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#15    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 26 March 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

You do not want to find God. You have already decided you do not like him, nor want anything to do with him. I'll respect your decision, however I will not waste my time ministering to the volitionally blind.

You're just asserting claims about others' psychological state (evidence please that Havoc 'does not like him') based on pretty  much nothing, which is odd for someone who is chiding others about what is rational and what is not.  Regardless, depending on how you read the rules of this forum, I don't know that you are supposed to be 'ministering' here at all.

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