236 replies to this topic

[Professor T]

More signs of hope..

A poll in Israel says over 90 per cent of Israeli Jews support the IDF’s Pillar of Defense operation in Gaza, according to a poll carried out by Israeli publication Haaretz. The poll also notes that only 30 per cent of the public is in favor of a ground invasion.

Hamas spokesperson, Ghazi Hamad says that 90 per cent of the terms of ceasefire between Israel and Gaza have been agreed upon in a meeting in Egypt.



Edited to add: Oh yes, and from the UN Ban-ki-Moon, is urging for an immediate ceasefire on both sides.. Nice one.. It took the UN 5 days from just showing concern to urging for a ceasefire..

Edited by Professor T, 19 November 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[and then]

Professor T, on 19 November 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

More signs of hope..

A poll in Israel says over 90 per cent of Israeli Jews support the IDF’s Pillar of Defense operation in Gaza, according to a poll carried out by Israeli publication Haaretz. The poll also notes that only 30 per cent of the public is in favor of a ground invasion.

Hamas spokesperson, Ghazi Hamad says that 90 per cent of the terms of ceasefire between Israel and Gaza have been agreed upon in a meeting in Egypt.



Edited to add: Oh yes, and from the UN Ban-ki-Moon, is urging for an immediate ceasefire on both sides.. Nice one.. It took the UN 5 days from just showing concern to urging for a ceasefire..

A ground invasion would be a nasty, bloody mess and the people of Israel know it - none better.  I sincerely hope that a real truce is possible for a while but I also hope Israel has found and eliminated the Fajr 5 missiles or this whole thing will just start over in a matter of weeks.  I think we are coming to a denouement of this conflict.  The arms reaching Hamas from Iran through Sudan have become sophisticated enough that Hamas can cause REAL problems for Israel any time they wish to - which means any time Iran wishes for them to.  Imagine for a moment that this flare up, which isn't so extraordinary after all, was happening with a nuclear Iran both pulling the strings AND implying they had Hamas' "back" in the conflict.  Sort of changes the calculus doesn't it?  
For my part, I cannot even imagine living somewhere that my kid would have to be 30 seconds from a bomb shelter at all times.  It's time for a resolution for both sides.

[shaddow134]

A ground invasion is the last thing Isreal wants,it would be a disaster as it nearly was for them last time.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Israel keeps bombing media buildings

[Sakari]

Professor T, on 15 November 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Oh, and edited to add, this operation is in response to rocket attacks that didn't kill or injure anyone..

So, it is ok to attack another Country, or another person, as long as it does not injure anyone?

[shaddow134]

The New Richard Nixon, on 19 November 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Israel keeps bombing media buildings

Well the Isreali's never liked bad press,seriously though both sides are looking for a face saving way to stop the hostilities then things will settle down till the next cycle.

[stevewinn]

The president of the United States of America supports Israels right to defend herself. - what people dont seem to be mentioning is the influence Iran is having on situation. do people really think this is Hamas operating on its own. Think again. Its the puppeteer were after.

Edited by stevewinn, 19 November 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

stevewinn, on 19 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

The president of the United States of America supports Israels right to defend herself. - what people dont seem to be mentioning is the influence Iran is having on situation. do people really think this is Hamas operating on its own. Think again. Its the puppeteer were after.

We don't know if Iran is helping or not. It is more likely that Hamas makes thier own from copies of iranian and Chinese models

[ExpandMyMind]

stevewinn, on 19 November 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

The president of the United States of America supports Israels right to defend herself.

Do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves also?

[and then]

The New Richard Nixon, on 19 November 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

We don't know if Iran is helping or not. It is more likely that Hamas makes thier own from copies of iranian and Chinese models

While possible, I guess, it doesn't seem probable.  The Fajr series is liquid fueled and has up to a 200 lb warhead.  Until now they have been making heavy duty "bottle rockets" to launch with fuses.  THAT'S a big leap in technology for a metal shop.  Plus, Israel recently flattened a Sudanese missile factory that Iran had set up just for Hamas supply.

[Professor Buzzkill]

ExpandMyMind, on 19 November 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

Do the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves also?

If i punch you in the face, then you attack me, can i defend myself?

[ExpandMyMind]

In your hypothetical scenario, you would be the aggressor - the attacker - so you wouldn't be the one defending yourself, the person you punched would be. Cause and effect.

[Professor Buzzkill]

ExpandMyMind, on 19 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

In your hypothetical scenario, you would be the aggressor - the attacker - so you wouldn't be the one defending yourself, the person you punched would be. Cause and effect.

my point exactly. you can't "defend youself" if you are the aggressor

[ExpandMyMind]

Professor Buzzkill, on 19 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

my point exactly. you can't "defend youself" if you are the aggressor

Indeed. And Israel is by definition the aggressor. They are the illegal occupiers of the Palestinians, drop bombs on them and shoot their civilians, destroy homes and crops, demoralise and terrorise them whenever they see fit - and this has been going on since long before the first rocket attack or even suicide bomb or even the birth of Hamas (it is actually the reason Hamas was born). Not to mention 100 others acts of aggression.

You, my friend, are reversing cause and effect. No illegal occupation = no ability to defend any aggressive actions carried out by the Palestinians.The countries of the World vote every year to end the illegal occupation. This shows that there is a WORLD consensus with the view being that Israel are by definition the aggressors.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 19 November 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[glorybebe]

Professor Buzzkill, on 19 November 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

my point exactly. you can't "defend youself" if you are the aggressor

And that is what comes to question who the aggressor is.  By taking the land away from the Palestinians in the first place, that set this up to be a constant battle.  And the Paletinians do not have any rights over in Isreal, Isreal wants the land and no Palestinian citizens.