He asked Ryan if he believed in God

[marduk]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ool_shooting_32

"Then, in a nearby classroom, he heard the gunman say something to his friend Ryan. "He asked Ryan if he believed in God," Graves said. "And then he shot him."

This news just in from america.

Another day of mourning for us all.

Is god to blame

or society

[Stellar]

Does it say what the shooter believed in, or Ryans answer?

[Hoagy]

REDBY, Minn. - The suspect in the worst U.S. school shooting since Columbine smiled and waved as he gunned down five students, a teacher and a guard, asking one of his victims whether he believed in God, witnesses said. The teen's grandfather and his grandfather's wife also were found dead, and the boy killed himself.

Reggie Graves, a student at Red Lake High School, said he was watching a movie about Shakespeare in class Monday when he heard the gunman blast his way past the metal detector at the school's entrance, killing a guard.

Then, in a nearby classroom, he heard the gunman say something to his friend Ryan: "He asked Ryan if he believed in God," Graves said. "And then he shot him."

The death toll at the Red Lake Indian Reservation in far northern Minnesota made it the nation's worst school shooting since the rampage at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., in April 1999 that ended with the deaths of 12 students, a teacher and the two teen gunmen.

The victims included the gunman's grandfather; the grandfather's wife; a school security guard; a teacher; and five other students. At least 14 others were wounded, and two students remained in critical condition Tuesday at MeritCare in Fargo, N.D., officials said.

"There's not a soul that will go untouched by the tragic loss that we've experienced here," Floyd Jourdain Jr., chairman of the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, told WCCO-TV of Minneapolis on Tuesday.

Police said the gunman killed himself after exchanging fire with officers. Red Lake Fire Director Roman Stately said the gunman had two handguns and a shotgun.

"We ask Minnesotans to help comfort the families and friends of the victims who are suffering unimaginable pain by extending prayers and expressions of support," Gov. Tim Pawlenty said.

The shooter was Jeff Weise, a 17-year-old student who had been placed in the school's Homebound program for some violation of policy, said school board member Kathryn Beaulieu. Students in that program stay at home and are tutored by a traveling teacher. Beaulieu said she didn't know what Weise's violation was, and wouldn't be allowed to reveal it if she did.

There was no immediate indication of Weise's motive. But several students said he held anti-social beliefs, and he may have posted messages on a neo-Nazi Web site expressing admiration for Adolf Hitler.

A writer who identified himself as Jeff Weise of the Red Lake Reservation posted the messages under the nickname "Todesengel" — German for "angel of death." An April 2004 posting by him referred to being accused of "a threat on the school I attend," though the writer later said he was cleared.

Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids. Relatives told the newspaper his father committed suicide four years ago, and that his mother was living in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident.

Beaulieu said school was canceled Tuesday, but plans hadn't been made for the rest of the week.

During the rampage, teachers herded students from one room to another, trying to move away from the sound of the shooting, said Graves, 14. He said some students crouched under desks.

Some pleaded with the gunman to stop. "You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?'" Sondra Hegstrom told The Pioneer of Bemidji.

Student Ashley Morrison said she heard shots, then saw the gunman's face peering though a door window of a classroom where she was hiding with several other students. After banging at the door, the shooter walked away and she heard more shots, she said.

"I can't even count how many gunshots you heard, there was over 20. ... There were people screaming, and they made us get behind the desk," she said.

FBI (news - web sites) spokesman Paul McCabe said the gunman exchanged gunfire with Red Lake police in a hallway, then retreated to a classroom, where he was believed to have shot himself.

All of the dead students were found in one room, including the teen believed to be the shooter.

Authorities closed roads to the reservation in far northern Minnesota while they investigated the shootings. The reservation, about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities, is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state. According to the 2000 census, 5,162 people lived on the reservation, and all but 91 were Indians.

Some of the injured were being cared for in Bemidji, about 20 miles south of Red Lake. Police officers were posted at the hospital Monday night to keep reporters from entering. When a reporter approached three men walking across a hospital parking lot, one broke down in tears and the others said they had no comment.

It was the second fatal school shooting in Minnesota in 18 months. Two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring in September 2003. Student John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time, awaits trial in the case.

Red Lake High School has about 300 students, according to its Web site.

[Seraphina]

Ah, but let's all remember...there is no gun problem in the US. No, none at all, none whatsoever, and they'll shoot anyone who disagrees.

[wunarmdscissor]

nope sera no gun problem

things like that happen here ALL the time.

Violent crime is worse here

*insert redundant fact here*

[Michelle]

It's a horrible thing to have happen, and if you would please, Burns shut down the thread about the baby being killed with an air gun in Scotland out of respect for the childs life and I expect respect for these childrens lives as well.

[Hoagy]

careful people, if you wear black, you may well be a gun-toting neo nazi fascist that will go on a killing spree. I hate the media for coming out with this kind of garbage. Would they have commented if he was wearing jeans and sneakers? I think not. I bet ol' Marilyn Manson will get the blame for this one too...

[Seraphina]

Michelle, as much as I understand your reasoning, I honestly don't think that's the answer...the previous thread was closed because tempers started running very high, not because of the topic itself...I think things like this actually need to be discussed, not shut away while we pretend they don't happen.

[wunarmdscissor]

its horrible but sticking your head in the sand is exactly why america regularly has these things and why they are VERY rare here .

After dunblane snap rules were put in place here and nothing like that has happened since.

[Michelle]

I didn't say it shouldn't be discussed Sera, I just don't want it to become another *we are right and you are wrong about guns* issue. I stopped beating that dead horse because it's something that we will never agree on. If that is to be discussd again I don't think it should be here.

[wunarmdscissor]

but thats EXACTLY what kind of issue it is????

and where better to discuss it?

[wunarmdscissor]

its events like this that COMPLETLEY back up our argument.

[Michelle]

Or it could be a flame war about God since he asked if Ryan believed in God.

[wunarmdscissor]

my argument has nowt to do with god.

u can be a religious nut if you want but a religious nut with a gun is far more dangerous

[Seraphina]

I don't think god really needs to come into it...aside from one reference (the gunman's question) the event doesn't really have anything to do with religion...especially since it says nothing of either what the answer was, or what the gunman's opinion was.

[Talon]

After dunblane snap rules were put in place here and nothing like that has happened since.

This just like Dunblane

Which was actually brought up our news recently because Howard said everyone over reacted over it.

[wunarmdscissor]

another reason to vote labour then , he was sayin that also in relation to the toddler that was shot also, had to actually run away from the kids mother after saying it.

[Seraphina]

Since Dundlame, the UK has NEVER seen another school shooting...I consider that perfect justifaction for the resultant ban on handguns. Tell Mr Howard that he can go jump off a bridge

[wunarmdscissor]

the count can fly wed need a steak and a crucifix to get rid of howard lol

[marduk]

The fact that the gunman posted as "death angel" and asked his victims if they were believers or not says to me that this was motivated by religion

Confused or not the implication is certainly there

[twpdyp]

I am not an expert on European culture and laws so I am forced to ask a question. If a child in a European country wanted to do a similar thing could he, if he wanted to bad enough, obtain a handgun. I am not going to get into a war about gun control mostly because it is a no win fight. I just wanted to know about the availability of guns in some European countries. But I must say "You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to stop you from driving to the ball game".

[Seraphina]

If a child in a European country wanted to do a similar thing could he, if he wanted to bad enough, obtain a handgun.

That really depends on whereabouts in Europe you mean...for the sake of arguement though, I'll answer the question in the case of the UK.

The answer is probably no...it would be extremelly difficult for anyone, let alone a child, to get hold of a handgun in this country. While there certainly are still a few guns in circulation, they're very few and far between.

But I must say "You can kill someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to stop you from driving to the ball game".

We don't have an epidemic of kids wandering into school with knives or baseball batas and laying waste to students in a US style massacre either.

[Athenian]

Schools these days. Are they teaching to better humanity or what?

There is no going back now. It looks like school shootings are becoming apart of the American culture.

Why don't they just permit students to carry guns or swords around in schools and set up a unique code of honor for fighting? Then no one will dare to challenge or attack one another, and even if they do, it will be done properly in a duel fashion.

[gollum]

It would and is extremely difficult to get your hands on a handgun in Britain.

I would assume it's just as hard in the rest of Europe.

Even your hard nosed drug dealers and bank robbers would find it difficult.

As for a dreanged(sp) teenager getting one. Difficult to the point of impossible.

[Michelle]

If we're boring you Athenian ther's plenty more to read.

Do the police even carry firearms? I know when in Ireland most of the regular police didn't but when they had big pickups at banks they had special officers with machine guns which we don't do here.