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[Merged] Gobekli Tepe


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#241    Ove

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:06 PM

View Postlightly, on 06 October 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Good to see you here Ove.
What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Ove, 06 October 2012 - 01:25 PM.


#242    docyabut2

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

ove I don`t think a rebrith, but of hunters and gathers for food.  Perhaps more of a baby sacrifice,food to the bird god in return for more abundance of the meat they had to hunt. There are a lot of animals figures on the temple walls that they had hunted.

Edited by docyabut2, 06 October 2012 - 01:31 PM.


#243    Ove

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 06 October 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

ove I don`t think a rebrith, but of hunters and gathers for food.  Perhaps more of a baby sacrifice,food to the bird god in return for more abundance of the meat they had to hunt. There are a lot of animals figures on the temple walls that they had hunted.
This looks like typical "sky burial" not  baby sacrifice

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Sky_burial

Warning graphic Google images >  her
Posted Image

Edited by Ove, 06 October 2012 - 01:52 PM.


#244    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostOve, on 06 October 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

Posted Image

Posted Image


I have posted the second pic in this thread too, Ove, but I added an important line I copied from the original site: "Questionable reconstruction “vulture shrine”

http://www.unexplain...5

Or the site itself: http://www.rugkazbah...879&refnum=1879

.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 01:52 PM.


#245    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:08 PM

Just found an interesting paper:

CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE GODDESS IN THE ANCIENT MIDDLE EAST (10,000 - 330 BCE)
by JENNETTE ADAIR, Feb. 2008, University of South Africa.

http://uir.unisa.ac.....pdf?sequence=1


#246    lightly

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostOve, on 06 October 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

What about this, lightly

The vultures takes the deceased to the sky, and then returns to earth, where the deceased is reborn by the Gobekli Tepe goddesses.

Posted Image

Posted Image
  It's an interesting idea Ove.    Obvious, is the significance of vultures in the belief system of the culture.. and the placement of hands on some of the 'statuary'?   ... We see no other human features ... only the enigmatic prominently displayed hands.  Interesting too, is the life size icon (your avatar) found at Gobekli tepe has no mouth.  I don't know what it means, but they didn't leave the mouth out by accident.    (note to Abramelin,  in the pdf i posted on page 4...  there is a timeline on weather patterns of the levant (natufian country) under Paleoclimatic  Record).. not sure if the changes include the entire area in question... but  i think so.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#247    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:39 PM

On page 4 you posted "woops...sorry" :

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4465446

LOL.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 03:39 PM.


#248    lightly

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 03:55 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

On page 4 you posted "woops...sorry" :

http://www.unexplain...45#entry4465446

LOL.


.
  Woops!  sorry    :)   page 5  (human journey)

* to add this link (hopefully)

http://ancientstuff....s-of-the-levan/

The Giant Stone Rings and Sky-burials of the Levant
#0, by gdub, 04 November 2011 11:20 AM
Archaeologists may be coming closer to resolving the mystery behind the puzzling megalithic concentric ring and tomb complex often called the "Stonehenge of the Levant".
◊◊◊
"Unlike the mortuary practices of the Jews in the Jerusalem area during the First Century B.C and First Century A.D., when the deceased were allowed to decay away to their bones for a year in rock-carved cavities in burial caves before deposition of the disarticulated bones into ossuaries, there is no evidence indicating how the earlier Chalcolithic peoples of the Rujm el-Hiri area reduced the bodies of the deceased to bones for placement in their ossuaries. He suggests, based on the anthropological record of excarnation or "sky burial" practices of various cultures and civilizations, as well as his interpretation of archaeological finds at various sites, that the flesh of the bodies of their deceased were permitted to be consumed by birds of prey, specifically vultures, which can divest a body of its flesh within hours. He points, for example, to the ancient Zoroastrian dokhmas, or "towers of silence", whereby vultures would eat away the flesh from the bones of the dead placed on raised platforms, at least partly as a means of protecting the soil environment from pollution by decaying bodies. He suggests that the concentric walls of Rujm el-Hiri, which were built at progressively lower heights toward the central tumulus, allowed for vultures to easily view the laid-out bodies from their perches atop the walls. After the vultures did their work, the bones could then be freed of their flesh and disarticulated and placed in ossuaries, many of which were designed like houses or miniature granaries or silos. Scholars theorize that the ossuaries symbolized storage places for new life, just as granaries contained seeds or grain later sewn for new crop production. The practice is interpreted by some to suggest that the ancient Chalcolithic people, at least in this area of the ancient Near East, believed in a resurrection. The ossuaries were seen as "magic boxes" that had the power to resurrect the dead."
◊◊◊
"Arav further supports his argument with a reference to research that suggests that the Chalcolithic people of the Levant originally migrated from the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey. Studies of the material culture show remarkable similarities between that of the Chalcolithic Levant and that of southern Turkey, and excarnation is thought to have been practiced in southern Turkey during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic periods. As one example, a "vulture shrine" was discovered at the famous Neolithic site of Catalhoyuk in southeastern Turkey. The shrine featured a mural wall painting of vultures swooping over headless corpses, interpreted as a possible excarnation scene."
◊◊◊

               .....   this has people migrating east to west...   but, it could be that people migrated   Earlier    from the  the Mediterranean area eastward into the , Generally,  improving wetter and warmer  landscape ?  (before it dried up again, coinciding with the end of gobekli))     This place and Gobekli both have constructions with Concentric rings.
....  another similarity.

Edited by lightly, 06 October 2012 - 04:21 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#249    Ove

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 04:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Just found an interesting paper:

CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE GODDESS IN THE ANCIENT MIDDLE EAST (10,000 - 330 BCE)
by JENNETTE ADAIR, Feb. 2008, University of South Africa.

http://uir.unisa.ac.....pdf?sequence=1

Page 31 "huge vultures are seen pecking at headless human bodies"

Also this that the human flesh is inside the vulture seems important.



Posted Image


#250    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:49 PM

View Postlightly, on 06 October 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

  Woops!  sorry :)   page 5  (human journey)

* to add this link (hopefully)

http://ancientstuff....s-of-the-levan/

The Giant Stone Rings and Sky-burials of the Levant
#0, by gdub, 04 November 2011 11:20 AM
Archaeologists may be coming closer to resolving the mystery behind the puzzling megalithic concentric ring and tomb complex often called the "Stonehenge of the Levant".
◊◊◊
"Unlike the mortuary practices of the Jews in the Jerusalem area during the First Century B.C and First Century A.D., when the deceased were allowed to decay away to their bones for a year in rock-carved cavities in burial caves before deposition of the disarticulated bones into ossuaries, there is no evidence indicating how the earlier Chalcolithic peoples of the Rujm el-Hiri area reduced the bodies of the deceased to bones for placement in their ossuaries. He suggests, based on the anthropological record of excarnation or "sky burial" practices of various cultures and civilizations, as well as his interpretation of archaeological finds at various sites, that the flesh of the bodies of their deceased were permitted to be consumed by birds of prey, specifically vultures, which can divest a body of its flesh within hours. He points, for example, to the ancient Zoroastrian dokhmas, or "towers of silence", whereby vultures would eat away the flesh from the bones of the dead placed on raised platforms, at least partly as a means of protecting the soil environment from pollution by decaying bodies. He suggests that the concentric walls of Rujm el-Hiri, which were built at progressively lower heights toward the central tumulus, allowed for vultures to easily view the laid-out bodies from their perches atop the walls. After the vultures did their work, the bones could then be freed of their flesh and disarticulated and placed in ossuaries, many of which were designed like houses or miniature granaries or silos. Scholars theorize that the ossuaries symbolized storage places for new life, just as granaries contained seeds or grain later sewn for new crop production. The practice is interpreted by some to suggest that the ancient Chalcolithic people, at least in this area of the ancient Near East, believed in a resurrection. The ossuaries were seen as "magic boxes" that had the power to resurrect the dead."
◊◊◊
"Arav further supports his argument with a reference to research that suggests that the Chalcolithic people of the Levant originally migrated from the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey. Studies of the material culture show remarkable similarities between that of the Chalcolithic Levant and that of southern Turkey, and excarnation is thought to have been practiced in southern Turkey during the Neolithic and Chalcolithic periods. As one example, a "vulture shrine" was discovered at the famous Neolithic site of Catalhoyuk in southeastern Turkey. The shrine featured a mural wall painting of vultures swooping over headless corpses, interpreted as a possible excarnation scene."
◊◊◊

   .....   this has people migrating east to west...   but, it could be that people migrated   Earlier from the  the Mediterranean area eastward into the , Generally,  improving wetter and warmer  landscape ?  (before it dried up again, coinciding with the end of gobekli)) This place and Gobekli both have constructions with Concentric rings.
....  another similarity.

I think you read that wrong: the article says "migrated FROM the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey". They must have went south.

What I like is that connection with Zoroastrianism. Like I said a while back, maybe the impossible early date of ca. 6200 BC for the origin of that cult - according to some classical writers - is right after all.

Posted Image

http://books.google....lutarch&f=false


.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 05:58 PM.


#251    lightly

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 06 October 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

I think you read that wrong: the article says "migrated FROM the ancient Anatolian region of present-day southern Turkey". They must have went south.

What I like is that connection with Zoroastrianism. Like I said a while back, maybe the impossible early date of ca. 6200 BC for the origin of that cult - according to some classical writers - is right after all.

http://books.google....rch&f=false


.


well,  southwest ?       some sites are north ot the Med.   but  gobekli , on the turkish /syrian border, is as much east .. as north?

Attached File  Gobekli_Tepe.jpg   92.53K   1 downloads     Attached File  syria390.jpg   43.08K   1 downloads

   but , ya  any links with Zoroastrianism  would be interesting too.    They both like vultures,  that's about all i know :D

Edited by lightly, 06 October 2012 - 06:51 PM.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#252    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:13 PM

View Postlightly, on 06 October 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

well,  southwest ?    some sites are north ot the Med.   but  gobekli , on the turkish /syrian border, is as much east .. as north?

Attachment Gobekli_Tepe.jpg Attachment syria390.jpg

   but , ya  any links with Zoroastrianism  would be interesting too. They both like vultures,  that's about all i know :D

Well, EVERYWHERE:

Attached File  Turkey.jpg   125.53K   6 downloads

Add to that the (still disputed) theory that Anatolia was the place of origin of IE, and a picture is slowly evolving.

And the Zoroastrian religion may only be a very diluted form of what the ancient Anatolians believed in.

But then we have the fact that Zoroastrianism is patriarchal, or better,  has a Supreme God, not a Goddess, while the Anatolians are supposed to have venerated a Mother Goddess.


#253    lightly

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 12 August 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

These bag shapes at the top here, they intrigue me.

Posted Image


I'm sure I've seen these before, on some palette or such from Egypt..? I know there is a purse carrying Assyrian God but the way these 3 'bags' are, does anyone recognise them from something else?

Also, on this website here: http://www.earthfile...ategory=Science  you can see a picture of the complete 'man', with the duck 'altar' at the base.


  well,  here are some similar looking objects...


Attached File  dilmuntoearth.jpg   36.34K   3 downloads        
and,  for fun... a container toting olmec serpent rider   Attached File  Olride~.jpg   109.98K   3 downloads

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#254    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:27 PM

Ove, when I saw you avatar, I had to think of those statues/figurines found on the Cyclades:

Posted Image




And they are of a much later time.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 06 October 2012 - 07:28 PM.


#255    Abramelin

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

(Lightly, why is it that when I watch the index page, I see the title of the thread you posted in on top of your username?? UM has thousands of members, but it only happens with you, lol)





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