75 replies to this topic

[JonathanVonErich]

Thanks for the link De, I shared two links to this site in my opening post, maybe the best site about the case.  

[iamdee1]

JonathanVonErich, on 01 November 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

That's what I first thought too, De, that it was a man in the military. My first thought is that it was probably a picture of a Vietnam soldier, maybe her brother. Who knows ?? Some people believe he might be involved, simply for the fact that he never came forward when authorities asked him to.

My guess is that he died in Vietnam and that he had nothing to do with the case.

But again, I can be wrong.

I'm thinking even older than Vietnam, the black border is a dead give away.  They showed the picture to her parents and family and no one could identify this person.

I have a friend who is a specialist on military items.  I'll give him a call and see if he can come look at this photo this week sometime.  Maybe he can tell us what era it is from or if it is military at all.


Did you see what I am talking about with the eye?  I looked at it through a magnifying glass and it is really apparent that something is wrong with it.

[iamdee1]

JonathanVonErich, on 01 November 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

Thanks for the link De, I shared two links to this site in my opening post, maybe the best site about the case.  

I also think it is the best site for this case as it has the most information about the girls.

[JonathanVonErich]

iamdee1, on 01 November 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I have a friend who is a specialist on military items.  I'll give him a call and see if he can come look at this photo this week sometime.  Maybe he can tell us what era it is from or if it is military at all.


Did you see what I am talking about with the eye?  I looked at it through a magnifying glass and it is really apparent that something is wrong with it.

That would be great, hopefully your friend will help. If he share anything of significance I'll contact the website, or you can contact them if you want to.

You are right about the eye, seems like he got into an accident or a fight shortly before the pic was taken. It could be a severe case of lazy eye too, good point.

Edited by JonathanVonErich, 01 November 2011 - 04:57 PM.

[rashore]

I'm not convinced that the unidentified man photo is military. It looks like it could have been a photo taken for ID badge purposes as well. Or perhaps a mug shot with the identification card portion on the bottom cut off- sometimes those were still shot in B&W in the 70's/80's. That might explain the ganked eye if the guy had been hauled in for fighting. The close cut is more in style for military, but buzz cuts on civilians wasn't unheard of, especially for "blue collar" workers that had jobs where short hair was better, like people wearing wielding helmets or other safety helmets.

The cable ties are most noted for electrical wire bundling. Not just in house wiring, they are also common for automotive use too. They have been around since 1958, and have been used for handcuff use since at least the late 60's/early 70's. The ones in the pic look like common ones that could be found in any hardware or automotive store at the time.

A tidbit I found interesting. The keyring carried by Bobbie. The link said it was a defensive weapon made for her by her husband. That would imply he was a metal worker, and metal workers often have to wear safety helmets. Perhaps the guy in the photo was a coworker of the husband?

And on a personal note... I kind of wish they hadn't cropped the photographers mark out of Bobbi's portrait. I would be really interested to find out if it was my uncle that took that shot or not. He owned a studio in Racine at the time, and if I am recalling correctly, didn't allow animal shots in the studio.

I found this website on the case. Found it interesting. The license plate in question has ZD, the Park County identifier. And the guys being looked for worked for a plumbing place, and depending on the type of plumbing place it was, zip ties might have been commonly laying around.

[iamdee1]

Just spoke to my friend on the phone and he says he will try to come see me tomorrow and wanted me to discribe the picture to him.  He says that by the discription, it could be merchant marines.  Don't know, we will see tomorrow what he thinks.

[iamdee1]

rashore, on 01 November 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'm not convinced that the unidentified man photo is military. It looks like it could have been a photo taken for ID badge purposes as well. Or perhaps a mug shot with the identification card portion on the bottom cut off- sometimes those were still shot in B&W in the 70's/80's. That might explain the ganked eye if the guy had been hauled in for fighting. The close cut is more in style for military, but buzz cuts on civilians wasn't unheard of, especially for "blue collar" workers that had jobs where short hair was better, like people wearing wielding helmets or other safety helmets.

The cable ties are most noted for electrical wire bundling. Not just in house wiring, they are also common for automotive use too. They have been around since 1958, and have been used for handcuff use since at least the late 60's/early 70's. The ones in the pic look like common ones that could be found in any hardware or automotive store at the time.

A tidbit I found interesting. The keyring carried by Bobbie. The link said it was a defensive weapon made for her by her husband. That would imply he was a metal worker, and metal workers often have to wear safety helmets. Perhaps the guy in the photo was a coworker of the husband?

And on a personal note... I kind of wish they hadn't cropped the photographers mark out of Bobbi's portrait. I would be really interested to find out if it was my uncle that took that shot or not. He owned a studio in Racine at the time, and if I am recalling correctly, didn't allow animal shots in the studio.

I found this website on the case. Found it interesting. The license plate in question has ZD, the Park County identifier. And the guys being looked for worked for a plumbing place, and depending on the type of plumbing place it was, zip ties might have been commonly laying around.

Wow, great clues on the zip ties and the guys working for the plumbing place.  I knew there would be several businesses that used those ties and was curious who else might have.

I also thought of the photo as maybe being a prisoner photo when I saw it.  There were some prisons back then that required the inmates hair be cut off and Jerry asked me on the phone if it looked like a inmate photo or military.  I'm still thinking old military photo so I'll have him check it for me.

[JonathanVonErich]

rashore, on 01 November 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'm not convinced that the unidentified man photo is military. It looks like it could have been a photo taken for ID badge purposes as well. Or perhaps a mug shot with the identification card portion on the bottom cut off- sometimes those were still shot in B&W in the 70's/80's. That might explain the ganked eye if the guy had been hauled in for fighting. The close cut is more in style for military, but buzz cuts on civilians wasn't unheard of, especially for "blue collar" workers that had jobs where short hair was better, like people wearing wielding helmets or other safety helmets.

A mug shot, very good possibility, Rashore.

My theory was Vietnam because recently I bought a documentary about the Vietnam conflict, and saw many pictures of soldiers resembling the type of picture showing the unknown man, that's why it was my first thought.

rashore, on 01 November 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

A tidbit I found interesting. The keyring carried by Bobbie. The link said it was a defensive weapon made for her by her husband. That would imply he was a metal worker, and metal workers often have to wear safety helmets. Perhaps the guy in the photo was a coworker of the husband?

Interesting, but remember that the picture was found in Annette's backpack, not Bobbie's. We know Annette knew Bobbie's husband, but I would be surprised if she knew any of the husband's coworker.

rashore, on 01 November 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

I found this website on the case. Found it interesting. The license plate in question has ZD, the Park County identifier. And the guys being looked for worked for a plumbing place, and depending on the type of plumbing place it was, zip ties might have been commonly laying around.

Thanks for the link, great find.  

It's strange that, in the article about Petrocelli ( written in 2010 ) they don't mention this story.  

iamdee1, on 01 November 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

Just spoke to my friend on the phone and he says he will try to come see me tomorrow and wanted me to discribe the picture to him.  He says that by the discription, it could be merchant marines.  Don't know, we will see tomorrow what he thinks.

Great, I can't wait !

[rashore]

No no, not the picture... The keyring with the big ole hook on it.

That was found with Bobbie and it's stated that it was made for her by her husband for defense.

If he was capable of bluffing through the polygraph and had already admitted contact with Annette.. It is not outside the realm of possibility that she might have met up with one of his coworkers. Perhaps Jeff spoke to a coworker about picking her up as a hitch hiker and so the guy went out and picked her up himself. Not necessarily that he is the killer, but it is possible that may be how he met her.
I may have missed it on the site, but I didn't see it mentioned that investigators showed Jeff the photograph for identification, and if Jeff did have anything to do with the murders, even if he did see it he would probably keep his mouth shut. Of course if he had nothing to do with it, and saw the pic and knew the guy, he probably would have spoken up.

[JonathanVonErich]

I understand what you meant Rashore, I just don't think there's a possible connection between Annette and a coworker of Bobbie's husband, that's how I feel.

I think it's more probable that Bobbie Jo met some of Jeff's coworkers, and if indeed the picture would have been found in Bobbie's bag then I would agree that it might be a good theory, but since the picture was found in Annette's backpack I have my doubts about this possibility.

[iamdee1]

Does anyone have a 1980's picture of Thomas Edward Lucas.

From what I have read on Lucas, and I have read several articles on him, it appears he lived in the same area as both girls, went to jail in 1982, told inmates that he killed 2 girls in the woods, when he saw a picture of Annette he stated, "no one will ever find that b....h and it took 6 months to find her body, drove the same model truck that Bobbi was observed in the day of her disappearance, was known to shoot his victims, he raped and severely beat a girl he gave a ride to in Breckenridge Colorado a month after Bobbi and Annette were murdered, he became a serial killer, and had his head beat into a stove at the age of 4 by his mother, which could have caused damage to his eye.  He also worked as a woodcutter, construction worker, and a janitor during his crime spree.  Also, there are some similarities to the man in the photo and the present day photo on the site.

He also chose his victums which looked like his mother, petite, shoulder length hair, in their 20's.

I'm not saying it was definitely him, however, I would be curious to see a young photo of him to rule him out as a suspect.  It is just too ironic that a small town had no crimes could within a month have 3 victims that were attacked.

http://maamodt.asp.r...omas Edward.pdf

[JonathanVonErich]

iamdee1, on 01 November 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

Does anyone have a 1980's picture of Thomas Edward Lucas.

You mean Thomas Edward Luther ??

I wrote in my opening post that he was cleared as a suspect via DNA testing.

At one time he was the prime suspect, but DNA from one of the victim's gloves has ruled him out. I don't have much information.

[iamdee1]

Yea, that is him.  Not sure why I was thinking Lucus.  

Maybe he had an accomplice and that is where the blood came from.  At this point, we don't know if there is one or more than one killer.  I'll see if I can find a young picture of him now that I have the right name....no, I was typing in the right name on my searches.

Edited by iamdee1, 01 November 2011 - 06:59 PM.

[iamdee1]

I just brought up his D.O.C. photo and I don't see anything odd about the eye so probably not him in the picture.

[iamdee1]

Here is an interesting article about both suspects and tells a little more about the crime.  It mentions Annette reminded the unidentified woman that she was talking to, to not forget cigarettes.  Almost sounds like she was planning on meeting up with her or at least knew the woman well enough to know she smoked.

Annette disappeared less than 3 hours away from Bobbi and only a mile separated them.  They say the victims didn't know each other but I find that hard to believe.  Both lived in a very small town and worked in that town, IMO, their paths would have had to cross at some point and I don't believe they were total strangers to each other.


http://blogs.denverp...reckenridge/34/