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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3736    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

Just to add:

VRSTURVEN (-E) [57]

DU: verb: versterven, past participle: verstorven

This is what it means nowadays:
http://nl.wikipedia....sterving_(dood)

http://en.wikipedia....nal_dehydration
http://www.etymologi...oord/versterven
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...VMNW&id=ID48903

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.


#3737    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:21 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 April 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith.

In earlier times most of Finda's people lived together in her Mother's land of birth, by name/in particular Ald-land that now lies under the sea.

=

Anda ôre side wrden wi thrvch thaet brêde Twisklând vmtunad, hwêr thrvch thaet Findas folk navt kvma ne thvradon, fon ovira tichta walda aend ovir it wilde kwik.

On the other side we were hedged in by the broad Twiskland, through which the Finda people dared not come on account of the thick forests and the wild animals.

Mind you: this was in the time BEFORE Aldland sank. So Finda lived east of Twiskland/Germany.

=

Tünis wilde thrvch thju strête fon tha middelsê vmbe to fârane fâr tha rika kaening fon Egiptalandum, lik hi wel êr dên hêde, men Inka sêide, that-i sin nocht hêde fon al et Findas folk.

Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middle Sea, and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all the Finda people.

So the Egyptians also belonged to Finda's people. What you mean, 'complicated'?

=

Vnder tha HIndos aend ôthera ut-a lôndum sind welka ljuda mank thêr an stilnise by malkorum kvma. Se gelâvath thet se vnforbastere bern Findas sind. Se gelâvath thet Finda fon ut-et Himmellaeja berchta bern is, hvanâ se mith hjara bern nêi tha delta jeftha lêgte togen is. Welke vnder tham gelâvath thet se mith hjra bern vppet skum thêr hêlige Gongga del gonggen is. Thêrvmbe skolde thi runstrâme hêlige Gongga hêta. Mâr tha prestera thêr ut en ôr lônd wech kvma lêton thi ljuda vpspêra aend vrbarna, thêrvmbe ne thurvath se far hjara sêk nit ôpentlik ut ni kvma.

Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries there are people who meet together secretly. They believe that they are pure children of Finda, and that Finda was born in the Himalaya mountains, whence she went with her children to the lowlands. Some of them believe that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges, and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges. But the priests, who came from another country, traced out these people and had them burnt, so that they do not dare to declare openly their creed.

=

Thaet folk was navt ne wild lik fêlo slachta Findas, men êlik anda Égipta-landar, hja haevath prestera lik tham aend nw hja kaerka haeve âk byldon.

They were not wild people, like most of Finda’s race; but, like the Egyptians, they have priests and also statues in their churches.

You know.... maybe these Finns with their Magiars were not Findas at all??

The OLB only says they were not as wild as most of the Findas, but more like the Egyptians (who - see earlier quote - were also Findas).

But why would the Finns with their Magiars be compaired with the Findas if they did not belong to that people?


Anyway, we have Findas east of Twiskland, we have Findas in the Punjab/India, we have Findas in Egypt...
And then add the physical description the OLB gives of Finda, the Mother: yellow skin with black hair like the manes of a horse. That doesn't look much like someone from Egypt or India, one automatically thinks of the Mongols.

Hmm. I thought that they might not be but this really says they are, it also suggests that the mother's birth land is Aldland and is under the sea. Because from other paragraphs we know that Findas birth land is in the Himmelaia.

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith;

basically...the findas folk lived all together in there mothers birthland, named aldland that is now under the sea.

the birthland is Himmelaia - so nearly all the Findas folk lived in the Himmelaia/Himalaya if so.

That MUST be Aldland. I agree with you that is does seem to be the most likely from the context of those parts.

OK, the Indus River you say? Maybe so.

Kasamyr - it says is a plain on a mountain and where Jessos was born, from how I interpret it, at the same time as Atland sunk, so how could he be born at a place that sunk at the same time?

I can see how that Kashmir might have been a sea once, or under water, because its name means 'to desiccate' which mean to dry out, the Aral Sea is desiccating. The valley of Kashmir was formerly a lake.

According to folk etymology, the name "Kashmir" means "desiccated land" (from the Sanskrit: Ka = water and shimeera = desiccate). In the Rajatarangini, a history of Kashmir written by Kalhana in the mid-12th century, it is stated that the valley of Kashmir was formerly a lake. According to Hindu mythology, the lake was drained by the great rishi or sage, Kashyapa, son of Marichi, son of Brahma, by cutting the gap in the hills at Baramulla (Varaha-mula). When Kashmir had been drained, Kashyapa asked Brahmans to settle there. This is still the local tradition, and in the existing physical condition of the country, we may see some ground for the story which has taken this form. The name of Kashyapa is by history and tradition connected with the draining of the lake, and the chief town or collection of dwellings in the valley was called Kashyapa-pura, which has been identified with Kaspapyros of Hecataeus (apud Stephanus of Byzantium) and Kaspatyros of Herodotus (3.102, 4.44).[1] Kashmir is also believed to be the country meant by Ptolemy's Kaspeiria.[2] Cashmere is an archaic spelling of Kashmir, and in some countries it is still spelled this way.
http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Kashmir

Earliest Neolithic sites in the flood plains of Kashmir valley are dated to c. 3000 BCE

Kashmir Valley: Mughal emperor Jahangir called it "Paradise on Earth."
http://en.wikipedia..../Kashmir_valley

Earliest Neolithic sites in the flood plains of Kashmir valley are dated to c. 3000 BCE. Most important of these sites are the settlements at Burzahom, which had two Neolithic and one Megalithic phases. First phase (c. 2920 BCE) at Burzahom is marked by mud plastered pit dwellings, coarse pottery and stone tools. In the second phase, which lasted till c. 1700 BCE, houses were constructed on ground level and the dead were buried, sometimes with domesticated and wild animals. Hunting and fishing were the primary modes of subsistence though evidence of cultivation of wheat, barley, and lentils has also been found in both the phases.[23][24] In the megalithic phase, massive circles were constructed and grey or black burnish replaced coarse red ware in pottery.[25] During the later Vedic period, as kingdoms of the Vedic tribes expanded, the Uttara–Kurus settled in Kashmir.
http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Kashmir


OK I think Atland might conceivably be associated with Kashmir. The houses were still being built 1700BC though, but it is a second phase, so some of the valley may have become reinhabitable by then.

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 April 2013 - 10:37 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3738    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:39 AM

View Postgestur, on 20 April 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Does anyone know what word was used in the (most) original text?

Doubt any of these will answer your question , dont know where your thinking was going .......but from Devi Bhagatavam ....

Ksettraja...Offspring of a wife by a kinsman , appointed to procreate for the husband .

Kunda.......A child born out of adultery .

Sahoda......The child of a woman already pregnant , before marriage .

Goloka.......b****** child of a widow.

Kanina........Child born to a young unmarried woman.

Krita............A purchased child .

Devi............A child born to a woman , impregnated by a god .


#3739    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Just to add:

VRSTURVEN (-E) [57]

DU: verb: versterven, past participle: verstorven

This is what it means nowadays:
http://nl.wikipedia....sterving_(dood)

http://en.wikipedia....nal_dehydration
http://www.etymologi...oord/versterven
http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...VMNW&id=ID48903

.

Starve/starving - extremely famished, can die of starvation.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3740    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 24 April 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Doubt any of these will answer your question , dont know where your thinking was going .......but from Devi Bhagatavam ....

Ksettraja...Offspring of a wife by a kinsman , appointed to procreate for the husband .

Kunda.......A child born out of adultery .

Sahoda......The child of a woman already pregnant , before marriage .

Goloka.......b****** child of a widow.

Kanina........Child born to a young unmarried woman.

Krita............A purchased child .

Devi............A child born to a woman , impregnated by a god .

I assume Gestur wanted to know if the original Greek word was anything similar to bast.ard.

It is not:

Singular: nothos,
Plural: nothoi

Nor are your Indian ones.


#3741    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:54 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 April 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Starve/starving - extremely famished, can die of starvation.

I know all about it: that is how my mother died more than 3 weeks ago. At some point she (91 years old) simply refused to eat and drink.

-

But Gestur's word was vrsturven, and it has a perfect Dutch equivalent, verstorven.


#3742    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

Here's Olof again: In 1717, Swedish professor Olof Rudbeck proposed about 100 etymologies connecting Finnish and Hungarian, of which about 40 are still considered valid (Collinder, 1965).
http://en.wikipedia....ralic_languages

He must have been pushing the idea that the Magyar of Hungary and Sami were related once...and he mentions Atland and wrote dictionaries I reckon this Olaf Rudbeck could have written the Oera Linda Book in his sleep. It wouldn't conform to his idea of Atland in Sweden unless some changes have been made of a possible original through copying or intentional change to reflect a more acceptable choice of place for the Finns to have come.

I could see this one being 'son' meaning and it fits the svn - whereby the v represents a long o sound as I explained before. son - soon, zoon - a vein or offshoot.
'vein / sinew' *sï(x)ni suoni (suone-) soon suuń suotna suona san šün sən sən ɬan taan ín teʔ

Suone.

Sweden enters proto-history with the Germania of Tacitus in AD 98. In Germania 44, 45 he mentions the Swedes (Suiones) as a powerful tribe (distinguished not merely for their arms and men, but for their powerful fleets) with ships that had a prow in both ends (longships). Which kings (kuningaz) ruled these Suiones is unknown, but Norse mythology presents a long line of legendary and semi-legendary kings going back to the last centuries BC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedes

Maybe like Suebi/Suevi  - if we went with a Uralic meaning for this the name could mean 'the sons of' -  - but alas, they give a Proto-Germanic root.

The Suebi or Suevi (from Proto-Germanic *swēbaz, either based on the Proto-Germanic root *swē- meaning "one's own" people,[1] from an Indo-European root *swe-,[2][3] the third person reflexive pronoun, or borrowed from a Celtic word for "vagabond"[4]) were a group of Germanic peoples who were first mentioned by Julius Caesar in connection with Ariovistus' campaign, c. 58 BC


I wouldn't be surprised if the root of 'Sami' is in this word:
'eye' *śilmä silmä silm silm čalbmi čalme śeĺme šinča śin śin, śinm- sem sam szem sæwə

Guessing a connection here too: The Silmarillion is a complex work exhibiting the influence of many sources. A major influence was the Finnish epic Kalevala, especially the tale of Kullervo.
http://en.wikipedia....he_Silmarillion

For Tacitus, the Suebi comprise the Semnones, who are "the oldest and noblest of the Suebi"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suebi

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3743    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 April 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Hmm. I thought that they might not be but this really says they are, it also suggests that the mother's birth land is Aldland and is under the sea. Because from other paragraphs we know that Findas birth land is in the Himmelaia.

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith;

basically...the findas folk lived all together in there mothers birthland, named aldland that is now under the sea.

the birthland is Himmelaia - so nearly all the Findas folk lived in the Himmelaia/Himalaya if so.

That MUST be Aldland. I agree with you that is does seem to be the most likely from the context of those parts.

OK, the Indus River you say? Maybe so.

Kasamyr - it says is a plain on a mountain and where Jessos was born, from how I interpret it, at the same time as Atland sunk, so how could he be born at a place that sunk at the same time?

I can see how that Kashmir might have been a sea once, or under water, because its name means 'to desiccate' which mean to dry out, the Aral Sea is desiccating. The valley of Kashmir was formerly a lake.

According to folk etymology, the name "Kashmir" means "desiccated land" (from the Sanskrit: Ka = water and shimeera = desiccate). In the Rajatarangini, a history of Kashmir written by Kalhana in the mid-12th century, it is stated that the valley of Kashmir was formerly a lake. According to Hindu mythology, the lake was drained by the great rishi or sage, Kashyapa, son of Marichi, son of Brahma, by cutting the gap in the hills at Baramulla (Varaha-mula). When Kashmir had been drained, Kashyapa asked Brahmans to settle there. This is still the local tradition, and in the existing physical condition of the country, we may see some ground for the story which has taken this form. The name of Kashyapa is by history and tradition connected with the draining of the lake, and the chief town or collection of dwellings in the valley was called Kashyapa-pura, which has been identified with Kaspapyros of Hecataeus (apud Stephanus of Byzantium) and Kaspatyros of Herodotus (3.102, 4.44).[1] Kashmir is also believed to be the country meant by Ptolemy's Kaspeiria.[2] Cashmere is an archaic spelling of Kashmir, and in some countries it is still spelled this way.
http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Kashmir

Earliest Neolithic sites in the flood plains of Kashmir valley are dated to c. 3000 BCE

Kashmir Valley: Mughal emperor Jahangir called it "Paradise on Earth."
http://en.wikipedia..../Kashmir_valley

Earliest Neolithic sites in the flood plains of Kashmir valley are dated to c. 3000 BCE. Most important of these sites are the settlements at Burzahom, which had two Neolithic and one Megalithic phases. First phase (c. 2920 BCE) at Burzahom is marked by mud plastered pit dwellings, coarse pottery and stone tools. In the second phase, which lasted till c. 1700 BCE, houses were constructed on ground level and the dead were buried, sometimes with domesticated and wild animals. Hunting and fishing were the primary modes of subsistence though evidence of cultivation of wheat, barley, and lentils has also been found in both the phases.[23][24] In the megalithic phase, massive circles were constructed and grey or black burnish replaced coarse red ware in pottery.[25] During the later Vedic period, as kingdoms of the Vedic tribes expanded, the Uttara–Kurus settled in Kashmir.
http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Kashmir


OK I think Atland might conceivably be associated with Kashmir. The houses were still being built 1700BC though, but it is a second phase, so some of the valley may have become reinhabitable by then.

Thats a great story of the great lake at kasimere , the caledonian boar was the one that kasyapa conjured up to break the retaining walls , and flood the valleys below

there is some connection to jews again as the kashmiri think they are descended from the 10 lost tribes , the waters flooded Baramundi , and Srinagar , and flooded ,

uri causing an exodus , (uri is also the name of the place in Switzerland where the pile village was found in the lake , and of course its nearly the name of the

Sumerian city of UR .) Srinagar is where the Indians say Jesus is buried , and also Solomons Temple , and there is a burial shrine also for AAron .


#3744    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:46 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 April 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I know all about it: that is how my mother died more than 3 weeks ago. At some point she (91 years old) simply refused to eat and drink.

-

But Gestur's word was vrsturven, and it has a perfect Dutch equivalent, verstorven.
That's terrible news mate, my sincere condolences.
Would you believe my brother died last year, from intentional dehydration also, his body could not recover from an accident due to his liver damage so he literally starved to death in hospital, he was unconscious for a while beforehand and died in pallative care after decisions had to be made. I don't often share my personal life on the board but will do so this time just to let you know.

Edited by The Puzzler, 24 April 2013 - 11:49 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3745    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:52 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 April 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

That's terrible news mate, my sincere condolences.
Would you believe my brother died last year, from intentional dehydration also, his body could not recover from an accident due to his liver damage so he literally starved to death in hospital, he was unconscious for a while beforehand and died in pallative care after decisions had to be made. I don't often share my personal life on the board but will do so this time just to let you know.

Thanks Puzz, and my condolences to you too.


#3746    The Puzzler

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 April 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Thanks Puzz, and my condolences to you too.
Thanks Abe.

I wonder then if there is any evidence for any sort of flood in the Kashmir valley circa 2200BC, considering there is mention of severe flooding in China, it could be. I know we have gone over some of this before but I think the mention of 2 stages with 2200BC in between building stages, that the area was a former lake/sea and underwater might lend to it being flooded at the same time as China. Time for some über-Googling. :tu:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#3747    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 06:57 PM

Well, I'll try to focus on any clues on the Pamir plateau.

Since the end of the ice age, Tibet has risen at approximately 10 millimetres (0.39 in) per year, at the same rate as the Himalaya. While the Himalaya rise can be explained by plate tectonics, the rise of Tibet can be explained as the isostatic rebound of the crust rising after the weight of the ice was removed. The amount of isostatic rebound since the last ice age is approximately 650 metres (2,130 ft).

http://en.wikipedia....Tibetan_Plateau


Glacial Lake Outburst Floods in the Pamir of Tajikistan
http://www.ijege.uni...ili-et-alii.pdf



"Attabad [Hunza] a site of prehistoric megaslides”
http://pamirtimes.ne...ric-megaslides/

1. The dam should be treated with the utmost concern. A dam of probably somewhat smaller dimensions in 1858 filled and failed catastrophically leading to a flood wave that caused immense damage — the second largest on record for the Upper Indus – reported to have had an 18m peak at Attock, probably more than 20 m at Chilas, and likely 10-15 m at Tarbela, scouring and carrying immense volumes of sediment.



This is an 19th century article about the 40 years old Hindoo-Koosh-Pamir theory:

Popular Science Monthly/Volume 38/January 1891/The Aryan Question and Prehistoric Man I

The Hindoo-Koosh-Pamir theory, once enunciated, gradually hardened into a sort of dogma ; and there have not been wanting theorists who laid down the routes of the successive bands of emigrants with as much con- fidence as if they had access to the records of the office of a primi- tive Aryan quartermaster-general. It is really singular to ob- serve the deference which has been shown, and is yet sometimes shown, to a speculation which can, at best, claim to be regarded as nothing better than a somewhat risky working hypothesis.

Forty years ago, the credit of the Hindoo-Koosh-Pamir theory had risen almost to that of an axiom.


http://en.wikisource...ehistoric_Man_I

40 years old at 1891? That's around 1851. Cornelis over de Linden and others who may have been connected with the OLB could have known about it.


Posted Image

http://www.yowangdu....e-is-tibet.html


Geological Prerequisites for Landslide Dams' Disaster Assessment and Mitigation in Central Asia

https://docs.google....axFhwErEDdZ58vg


Natural and Artificial Rockslide Dams
Stephen G. Evans,Reginald L. Hermanns,Alexander Strom,Gabriele Scarascia-Mugnozza

http://books.google....history&f=false


Ancient India
The Prehistoric Period


http://www.jeywin.co...cient-India.pdf


According to Edward Mayor, the Indo-Iranian residents lived in some place near Pamir.
http://www.indianetz...home_aryans.htm


TRACING OUR ANCESTORS
by: Frederick Haberman

(also about the Pamir and Noah's Flood)
http://www.scribd.co...derick-Haberman

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 April 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#3748    Abramelin

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:02 PM

Now this is more like it:


Ancient Europeans mysteriously vanished 4,500 years ago

The genetic lineage of Europe mysteriously transformed about 4,500 years ago, new research suggests.

The findings, detailed Tuesday in the journal Nature Communications, were drawn from several skeletons unearthed in central Europe that were up to 7,500 years old.

"What is intriguing is that the genetic markers of this first pan-European culture, which was clearly very successful, were then suddenly replaced around 4,500 years ago, and we don't know why," study co-author Alan Cooper of the University of Adelaide Australian Center for Ancient DNA said in a statement. "Something major happened, and the hunt is now on to find out what that was."


http://science.nbcne...-years-ago?lite


Co-author Prof Alan Cooper, from the University of Adelaide in Australia, said: "What is intriguing is that the genetic markers of this first pan-European culture, which was clearly very successful, were then suddenly replaced around 4,500 years ago, and we don't know why.

"Something major happened, and the hunt is now on to find out what that was."


http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-22252099


A new study of DNA from ancient remains provides further evidence that farming was first spread to Europe by migrants.

It casts doubt on the alternative theory in which agriculture was adopted by Europe's existing hunter-gatherer populations, spreading via cultural exchange with neighbouring tribes.

Science journal says a team compared DNA from the skeleton of an ancient farmer with that from three hunters.


They found the "farmer" was genetically distinct from hunters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-17857641

.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 April 2013 - 07:06 PM.


#3749    Knul

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 24 April 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

That's terrible news mate, my sincere condolences.
Would you believe my brother died last year, from intentional dehydration also, his body could not recover from an accident due to his liver damage so he literally starved to death in hospital, he was unconscious for a while beforehand and died in pallative care after decisions had to be made. I don't often share my personal life on the board but will do so this time just to let you know.

I am very sorry to read what happened to your brother and in fact to all of you. It must be difficult for you to understand why this happened. I can only wish you strength !


#3750    Knul

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 24 April 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

I know all about it: that is how my mother died more than 3 weeks ago. At some point she (91 years old) simply refused to eat and drink.

-

But Gestur's word was vrsturven, and it has a perfect Dutch equivalent, verstorven.

My condoleances. Even on this age you would certainly prefer a more human end.





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