2211 replies to this topic

[Brian Topp]

FlyingAngel, on 10 October 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I invent it. There is no hurt to try.
3 because you want it to look serious and not joking around
Middle night because it sounds better than in evening, at dawn, etc..

so you invented it? When? Did you invent it when you posted it or why did you invent it? You decide that your guardian angel is crowding your style and decide to tried it?

Hey sakari, eat 3 cheese burgers and you will get the heart burn demon visiting you.

Edited by Brian Topp, 10 October 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[Sakari]

FlyingAngel, on 10 October 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

Most people have their own guardian angel. So you should probably tell your guardian (using your mind) to stop protect you and let the evil spirit approach you, and live at your place. Try to tell that out loud 3 times in the middle of the night.

FlyingAngel, on 10 October 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

I invent it. There is no hurt to try.
3 because you want it to look serious and not joking around
Middle night because it sounds better than in evening, at dawn, etc..

Brian Topp, on 10 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

so you invented it? When? Did you invent it when you posted it or why did you invent it? You decide that your guardian angel is crowding your style and decide to tried it?

Hey sakari, eat 3 cheese burgers and you will get the heart burn demon visiting you.

[FlyingAngel]

Brian Topp, on 10 October 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

so you invented it? When? Did you invent it when you posted it or why did you invent it? You decide that your guardian angel is crowding your style and decide to tried it?

Hey sakari, eat 3 cheese burgers and you will get the heart burn demon visiting you.

Why does time of invention matter? ^^

[Sakari]

FlyingAngel, on 10 October 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Why does time of invention matter? ^^

What does matter is you said " I invented it ".

Brian was making the point anyone can start making up whatever they want.


" How can I make myself fly "???

" flap your arms really hard, and click your heals together "

" where did you hear that this works "

" I invented it, you never know "


Point being, just randomly making something up is not the question here at all. If you know of a " summons " or something that is claimed to work, then good deal, random things being made up, no thanks.

[B Jenkins]

Demons on demand.

One must also consider demons are used of God too.

People may have demons and be absolutely oblivious just that the demons are using a great deal more subtlety? Who knows?

In the sense, are they following God's program or the demon's program for their lives? On God's plan or on Satan's plan? Who is their pilot?

[Sakari]

Ambush Bug, on 12 October 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

Demons on demand.

One must also consider demons are used of God too.

People may have demons and be absolutely oblivious just that the demons are using a great deal more subtlety? Who knows?

In the sense, are they following God's program or the demon's program for their lives? On God's plan or on Satan's plan? Who is their pilot?

You are trying to justify demons existing by using another un proven, no evidence object. ( god ).

Prove to me there is a God, and maybe I will consider using what you say as something to consider.

Or Satan for that matter.

[booNyzarC]

Sakari, on 12 October 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Or Satan for that matter.

Spoiler

[QuiteContrary]

Sakari, here's a thought, though I have not read all 105 pages, and it  may be BTDT:

Since believers often say "skeptics are skeptics simply because they don't believe and therefore lack any experiences" or some such.

Have you called upon serious professionals (serious believers not your skeptical self) to contact the spirit world on your behalf.

Since there are spiritual cleansings I'm sure there are those who can summon evil as well. I would think if you can summon good you can summon evil.

It is in the bible and i'm sure in other spirit belief systems as well. It is the believers who do the summoning of good or evil on a nonbeliever.

I write this all from the POV of a nonbeliever, so I can't offer you any way to go about this, nor do I think if you do it will result in anything. But just a thought since believers often point out that skepticism itself hinders us skeptics.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 13 October 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Sakari]

QuiteContrary, on 13 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Sakari, here's a thought, though I have not read all 105 pages, and it  may be BTDT:

Since believers often say "skeptics are skeptics simply because they don't believe and therefore lack any experiences" or some such.

Have you called upon serious professionals (serious believers not your skeptical self) to contact the spirit world on your behalf.

Since there are spiritual cleansings I'm sure there are those who can summon evil as well. I would think if you can summon good you can summon evil.

It is in the bible and i'm sure in other spirit belief systems as well. It is the believers who do the summoning of good or evil on a nonbeliever.

I write this all from the POV of a nonbeliever, so I can't offer you any way to go about this, nor do I think if you do it will result in anything. But just a thought since believers often point out that skepticism itself hinders us skeptics.

My parents are born again Christians.

My Dad may as well be a pastor.

I was Baptized Lutheran, went to Sunday school, and church through age 13.

I use to be a " believer ", very much so, in a lot of things.

I also spent 2 years with a man that claims to be a guardian angel, and actually to this day wondering how he new so much, and seemed to have so many answers.That is a very long story, and I should go say hi to him tomorrow.

I have had 3 people on this thread say they were going to have me cursed, one I posted my GPS coordinates to make it easier.

I am not sure what I am getting at, other then I have been on " both " sides. Probably the good believer side for over half of my life, and the evil skeptic the rest. Either side, I have not been able to summon good, or evil spirits to show themselves, and I have tried, a lot.

[QuiteContrary]

Sakari, on 13 October 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

My parents are born again Christians.

My Dad may as well be a pastor.

I was Baptized Lutheran, went to Sunday school, and church through age 13.

I use to be a " believer ", very much so, in a lot of things.

I also spent 2 years with a man that claims to be a guardian angel, and actually to this day wondering how he new so much, and seemed to have so many answers.That is a very long story, and I should go say hi to him tomorrow.

I have had 3 people on this thread say they were going to have me cursed, one I posted my GPS coordinates to make it easier.

I am not sure what I am getting at, other then I have been on " both " sides. Probably the good believer side for over half of my life, and the evil skeptic the rest. Either side, I have not been able to summon good, or evil spirits to show themselves, and I have tried, a lot.

I see. Forgive me for asking what may be another old question but, are you wanting to "see" the spirit? Or just experience what  exactly?

[Sakari]

QuiteContrary, on 13 October 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

I see. Forgive me for asking what may be another old question but, are you wanting to "see" the spirit? Or just experience what  exactly?

I can not " want " to see or experience something I know does not exist.

I want people to quit being charlatans, and screwing with peoples heads...

I want people that really need help, to get the help they need, not some folklore bull**** spread around on tv, internet, movies, and campfires.

I want the charlatans that spread this bull**** to stop, I want them to either tell the truth, or wake up and learn the truth.

I have seen, and read about real people, with real problems, getting scared to death by these charlatans, and not getting the real help they need.

" Oh, you have a demon, or a spirit in your house "...." burn sage, call a Priest, say this 3 times while burning sage and your evil will go away ".....bull****!!!!!

I have been sick of this crap for a very long time, so what I have said for years and years ( before this site ) " PROVE IT!!!! "....

No one can, no one will.....So I asked " ok, so many professionals that know how to get rid of ghosts, spirits, demons. If so damn good, and knowing, tell me how to get them to come in "

Thousands of stories all the time of how " I was not a believer, until now, I keep waking up with claw marks, I hear voices, I see things "...." I was a skeptic until this happened "..

Ok, I was a believer, I am now a skeptic, what do I need to do to help show people that selling snake oil should be a thing of the past. There are people with real, genuine, problems that need help, and I can not prove it here, but I am sure there are quite a few that could have been helped by a real, educated, professional, experienced Doctor, but instead listened to Charlatans like this and suffered because of it.Actually, I know this has happened, and I can not prove it has, or would happen to someone listening to it on the internet, in a forum, but I will do what I can to stop that from happening.

So, what I want? ..... I want the ignorant to see that listening to stories, lies, and " belief " over reality and facts is near insane. Especially if it involves a real issue in ones life. I am not asking people to not have faith, I am asking people to not believe a Demon, or their dead grandma is haunting there house, scratching them, making a bad smell, giving them head aches...I am asking them to see a real Doctor and tell the Doctor exactly what they would tell people on sites just like this.

I am " proving " these things do not exist.....I want people to wake up. As I did, and many others.

More confused yet?

edit to finalize something : I also want people to say " I am not saying this is fact, as there really is no evidence to back it up, but I believe...."

Not : " This is what you have, I know it, and I don't care what anyone says is true "

I do not know why that is so hard.





And I also want to know why this topic is not pinned yet?  

Edited by Sakari, 13 October 2012 - 03:49 AM.

[Brian Topp]

Sakari, on 13 October 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

And I also want to know why this topic is not pinned yet?  

Because you get in trouble with the admins and mods here more than I do.

[QuiteContrary]

Understood, thanks for taking the time to clarify.

[Saru]

Sakari, on 13 October 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

And I also want to know why this topic is not pinned yet?

Putting a stop to charlatans and frauds in the paranormal/psychic field is a commendable endeavor, as is raising concerns on the topic of people with mental illnesses being given unsound 'spiritual' advice instead of a recommendation to see a doctor; but when you invite people to contribute their deeply held personal beliefs on a controversial paranormal topic it is extremely important to maintain a degree of neutrality and civility in doing so and we're simply not seeing that. The thread is filled with bickering and personal attacks; if someone comes in and contributes something they get chastised for having not read the entire thread first ( all 1500+ posts of it ), even if they have read it all their beliefs tend to be promptly shot down and picked apart in a series of condescending and dismissive remarks. There's way too much hostility being leveled towards those who are contributing.

[Sakari]

Saru, on 13 October 2012 - 04:10 PM, said:

Putting a stop to charlatans and frauds in the paranormal/psychic field is a commendable endeavor, as is raising concerns on the topic of people with mental illnesses being given unsound 'spiritual' advice instead of a recommendation to see a doctor; but when you invite people to contribute their deeply held personal beliefs on a controversial paranormal topic it is extremely important to maintain a degree of neutrality and civility in doing so and we're simply not seeing that. The thread is filled with bickering and personal attacks; if someone comes in and contributes something they get chastised for having not read the entire thread first ( all 1500+ posts of it ), even if they have read it all their beliefs tend to be promptly shot down and picked apart in a series of condescending and dismissive remarks. There's way too much hostility being leveled towards those who are contributing.

Strange, other then asking some people to read the entire topic ( I believe more people other then me have said this ), I would say I was the one being chastised, and picked apart in a series of condescending and dismissive remarks. There is way to much hostility being leveled towards myself also. Hell, I had someone asking for harm to be done to my wife on this topic.

I get it, I really do......