Ghosts created in 'disturbing' lab experiment

[Still Waters]

Ghostly apparitions and hauntings have pervaded folklore and legend for thousands of years, but now scientists have shown that they are just a figment of the imagination.

http://www.telegraph...experiment.html

[RyanNREMTP]

Interesting.

[freetoroam]

Please to see an experiment has been done to prove what many of us have been saying for years...an illusion created by the mind.

This experiment is fascinating and shows the capabilites of our minds, even when not under our control.

But, I doubt this will convince some of the believers.

[Karasu]

Please to see an experiment has been done to prove what many of us have been saying for years...an illusion created by the mind.

This experiment is fascinating and shows the capabilites of our minds, even when not under our control.

But, I doubt this will convince some of the believers.

Yeah but, "Who you gonna call? POLYTECHNIQUE FEDERALE DE LAUSANNE!", just isn't as catchy.

[freetoroam]

Yeah but, "Who you gonna call? POLYTECHNIQUE FEDERALE DE LAUSANNE!", just isn't as catchy.

With the right tune, thats practically a whole song.

[LV-426]

I'd say this experiment, while a likely explanation for some cases, isn't a definitive answer to 'folklore and legend for thousands of years'. Some cases just defy rational explanation, even if it's as simple as us not understanding the science yet rather than any kind of spiritual connotations.

[Archangel Oger]

I'd say this experiment, while a likely explanation for some cases, isn't a definitive answer to 'folklore and legend for thousands of years'. Some cases just defy rational explanation, even if it's as simple as us not understanding the science yet rather than any kind of spiritual connotations.

Not to mention the fact that the subject is blindfolded, one would have to SEE the "ghost" not just feel it. It defeats the point they are trying to make from top to bottom and side to side. Of course, people report being touched BUT they can see what is going on around them.

[freetoroam]

I'd say this experiment, while a likely explanation for some cases, isn't a definitive answer to 'folklore and legend for thousands of years'. Some cases just defy rational explanation, even if it's as simple as us not understanding the science yet rather than any kind of spiritual connotations.

The thing is with folklores and legends which began many years ago, began because of not having an understanding of how many things work, add to this, superstition, naivety, lack of education, and the fact that we did not have the science or technology to explain things back then...but today we do and this experiments further adds to our knowledge of understanding while explaining another "mystery" for some........if they are prepared to accept it.

[freetoroam]

They saw up to four phantoms positioned around them and believed that ghosts were touching their backs with invisible fingers

Not to mention the fact that the subject is blindfolded, one would have to SEE the "ghost" not just feel it. It defeats the point they are trying to make from top to bottom and side to side. Of course, people report being touched BUT they can see what is going on around them.

Not all of them were, that was another part of the experiment.

Edited November 6, 2014 by freetoroam

[Oxo1]

Doesn't explain the icy cold room temperatures that have sometimes been reported in the presence of a ghost though.

I had the opportunity once to talk to a hotel chambermaid working in a London hotel, who was cleaning a room when she suddenly became aware of a dark figure of a man dressed in a hat and what looked like an undertakers suite from the eary 1900's, lying on the floor motionless behind her. The hotel room door was open, and the top half of the man was in the room and the lower half was in the corridoor. So obviously shocked by this, she then went on to ask the man what he was doing lying on the floor. She didn't receive an answer, but soon after he started to slowly sink through the floor and was then gone. I had no reason not to believe her, as she was most sincere about what she had seen.

So try and explain that one please in scientific terms.

[Imaginarynumber1]

I had no reason not to believe her, as she was most sincere about what she had seen.

So try and explain that one please in scientific terms.

You also had no real to believe her. You probably did because you believe in ghosts.

People lie and make up stories all the time.

[freetoroam]

Doesn't explain the icy cold room temperatures that have sometimes been reported in the presence of a ghost though.

I had the opportunity once to talk to a hotel chambermaid working in a London hotel, who was cleaning a room when she suddenly became aware of a dark figure of a man dressed in a hat and what looked like an undertakers suite from the eary 1900's, lying on the floor motionless behind her. The hotel room door was open, and the top half of the man was in the room and the lower half was in the corridoor. So obviously shocked by this, she then went on to ask the man what he was doing lying on the floor. She didn't receive an answer, but soon after he started to slowly sink through the floor and was then gone. I had no reason not to believe her, as she was most sincere about what she had seen.

So try and explain that one please in scientific terms.

You start out telling this as if you were there:

You give a full description as if you saw it, and then you end it by saying you had no reason not to believe her.

Please can you describe what an undertakers suit from the early 1900's looked like.

There is no scientific terms for complete fabrication.

[taniwha]

Senses can trick the mind so whats new? However the experiment is not designed to test if ghosts exist or not and the only 'disturbing' result from it is that some people here seem to think it does.

[freetoroam]

Senses can trick the mind so whats new? However the experiment is not designed to test if ghosts exist or not and the only 'disturbing' result from it is that some people here seem to think it does.

One person has already misread the article thinking everyone was blindfolded, I think you may have misread it too.....they did the experiment to show how the mind and brain can see ghosts and Apparitions.

It clearly states in the 3rd and 4th paragraph what they were trying to achieve, and they did.

So basicall, they have shown that to many who thought they saw a ghost..the ghost did not exist, but only in their head.

Edited November 7, 2014 by freetoroam

[taniwha]

One person has already misread the article thinking everyone was blindfolded, I think you may have misread it too.....they did the experiment to show how the mind and brain can see ghosts and Apparitions.

It clearly states in the 3rd and 4th paragraph what they were trying to achieve, and they did.

So basicall, they have shown that to many who thought they saw a ghost..the ghost did not exist, but only in their head.

Yes your right, no one will be unconvinced who has actually ever seen or heard or felt a ghost for real. Usually people who see ghosts have unusally high perceptions, their senses are 'in tune' or enhanced somehow by the experience. This experiment tricks people by sensory deprivation using the creepy blindfold technique.

Virtual reality is no substitute for the real thing. Remember the 'reality show' Space Cadets? Same thing.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Cadets_(TV_series)

[Oxo1]

You start out telling this as if you were there:

You give a full description as if you saw it, and then you end it by saying you had no reason not to believe her.

Please can you describe what an undertakers suit from the early 1900's looked like.

There is no scientific terms for complete fabrication.

I'm only describing the story the way it was told to me, and I believe from her sincerity yes sincerity and the way she told the story she was telling the truth, it's as simple as that. I am recounting this story from about 25 years ago, so from what I remember of her description of the undertakers suit, is far from clear in my mind. I have no idea what a 1900's undertakers suit would look like. I have just remembered though while writing this, the description of his face which was rather grim and grey looking, and she could quite clearly see his face because he was lying on his back. The hotel building dates back to victorian times when it was then used as a dwelling or lodging house. So there it is, taken at face value it's just another ghost story, and one that defies a rational scientific explanation, I'm glad to say.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

So scientists can induce this 'feeling' artificially. That just proves that our brains can get 'fooled' to feel presence of something similar to paranormal. If i can make a 3D model of ice cream in computer program that doesn't mean that ice cream doesn't exist in reality.

[freetoroam]

I'm only describing the story the way it was told to me, and I believe from her sincerity yes sincerity and the way she told the story she was telling the truth, it's as simple as that. I am recounting this story from about 25 years ago, so from what I remember of her description of the undertakers suit, is far from clear in my mind. I have no idea what a 1900's undertakers suit would look like. I have just remembered though while writing this, the description of his face which was rather grim and grey looking, and she could quite clearly see his face because he was lying on his back. The hotel building dates back to victorian times when it was then used as a dwelling or lodging house. So there it is, taken at face value it's just another ghost story, and one that defies a rational scientific explanation, I'm glad to say.

Science is not interested in trying to rationalise fictional ghost stories like this, this is more up the street of M.R.James.

What is it with the victorian times and people believing any ghost story from or about then, has to be true......many a fictional ghost writers about then and they do not even claim its true.

[freetoroam]

So scientists can induce this 'feeling' artificially. That just proves that our brains can get 'fooled' to feel presence of something similar to paranormal. If i can make a 3D model of ice cream in computer program that doesn't mean that ice cream doesn't exist in reality.

I think we could be going round in circles with some people, I did say some will never believe it.....even if it was slapped on their heads with a wet blanket, they are just not having it.

[Mr.United_Nations]

Kinda agree but it won't be fully answered until we know about more about the brain and universe. What the experiment fails to show is how children see ghosts and animals. It ties in with Time as well.

For me the jury still out

[JinxDeMynx]

What idiot would purposely make a ghostly presence.

[Sir Smoke aLot]

I think we could be going round in circles with some people, I did say some will never believe it.....even if it was slapped on their heads with a wet blanket, they are just not having it.

I can't really understand why do people ( in this case those who were working on this project ) claim something 'big' while they were doing only 'tiny' things which are just showing us that brain can be fooled and manipulated in many ways, nothing new. To even link this test to ghosts, really its hard for me. Its clearly said in article that they changed 'movement' of robotic arm by 500 milliseconds - part from article :

'' But something a lot stranger happened when the back-touching was delayed and about 500 milliseconds out of sync with the finger movements. ''

What did they expect, that there will be no change in perception? How is that result ' a lot stranger ' ( as unexpected, weird maybe? ) Brains are surely capable of things that we aren't aware of, things that no one has ever think of but someday we will understand more. That, of course, doesn't mean that some beliefs ( like ghosts ) are just brain illusions. It's stupid claim or maybe i just can't understand their point Its elementary school material, this test.

[Occult1]

Senses can trick the mind so whats new? However the experiment is not designed to test if ghosts exist or not and the only 'disturbing' result from it is that some people here seem to think it does.

You've got a point. And it kind of remind of Michael Persinger's 'God helmet' experiment where he tried to stimulate temporal lobes with weak magnetic fields, allegedly creating all kind of mystical or spiritual experiences. In his Atheistic/materialist beliefs he seemed to think that because you can make people hallucinate under these conditions that would ruled out everything else once and for all.

‘But when the system malfunctions because of disease - or, in this case, a robot - this can sometimes create a second representation of one’s own body, which is no longer perceived as ‘me’ but as someone else, a “presence”.’

Source: http://www.dailymail...sence-room.html

That under lab condition we can push a mind under strain to alter perception is one thing, to try to debunk the 'ghost' phenomena in this way is quite another. It amazes me that these researchers are refering to people having such experiences as crazy, ill or overstressed invidviduals.

Edited November 7, 2014 by sam_comm

[Imaginarynumber1]

What idiot would purposely make a ghostly presence.

What idiot would believe in ghosts?

[AbyssWalker]

Kinda agree but it won't be fully answered until we know about more about the brain and universe. What the experiment fails to show is how children see ghosts and animals. It ties in with Time as well.

For me the jury still out

Jury will always be out, but this is an interesting study,

Maybe it's not the children that are seeing ghosts, but the parents who want to believe that their children are "special". Just sayin, and Not saying that children aren't special in many other ways.