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Michigan Votes for Right to Work Status


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#16    supervike

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 10 December 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Alright so say you are a conservative who works for a union and there is a 99% chance that union is lobbying to democrats with your union dues, because there probably really is a 99% chance they are, would you still think they are acting on your behalf? Union leadership is no different than the politicians and fatcat CEO's except that CEO's usually know how to run a business and create jobs. In fact, they're the only one of the three groups that actually provide anything.

Sorry Mr. Fess, you are wrong on this.  Union dues DO NOT GO TO POLITICAL PARTIES.  It is illegal to do so.


#17    supervike

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostMichelle, on 10 December 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

So, any qualified person could walk into a union business and get a job without joining? Besides being harassed by the union to join I can't see how this would be a bad thing.

That's the way it is in my state.  I don't have a huge issue with it.  However, in those Union-represented work groups, contracts and bargaining (which is largly where Union dues go) on this employees behalf is still happening.  I'm sure this employee would like to take advantage of any Union bargained raise or benefit addition.


#18    Michelle

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 10 December 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

that's how it is here in Oz, and the Unions basically kicked off one of our political parties.

We are almost halfway there...23 states are right to work states.


#19    Michelle

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

View Postsupervike, on 10 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Sorry Mr. Fess, you are wrong on this.  Union dues DO NOT GO TO POLITICAL PARTIES.  It is illegal to do so.

View Postsupervike, on 10 December 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

That's the way it is in my state.  I don't have a huge issue with it.  However, in those Union-represented work groups, contracts and bargaining (which is largly where Union dues go) on this employees behalf is still happening.  I'm sure this employee would like to take advantage of any Union bargained raise or benefit addition.

I don't know what loophole the unions are using, but they are big contributors to one particular party. It takes but a moment to look that up.

If a benefit happens upon the worker all the better...I simply don't believe in the strong arm tactics of a union in this day and age.


#20    and then

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:59 PM

Michigan will see a rise in business locating there if this law holds.  Companies tend to go where they don't have to deal with Union BS.  Look at all the auto manufacturing that is coming south.  I don't know how accurate it is but I saw a story about an Alabama Power crew going up to New Jersey to help with storm work cleanup and being called scabs and told they weren't needed.  Now THAT is an out of control union situation.

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#21    Michelle

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

View Postand then, on 10 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

Michigan will see a rise in business locating there if this law holds.  Companies tend to go where they don't have to deal with Union BS.  Look at all the auto manufacturing that is coming south.  I don't know how accurate it is but I saw a story about an Alabama Power crew going up to New Jersey to help with storm work cleanup and being called scabs and told they weren't needed.  Now THAT is an out of control union situation.

VW came to Chattanooga, without a union, and people are very happy with their wages.

The power crew was turned away in one area, but was able to work in another. I do agree that was shameful, especially with lives in danger due to the cold. Unions have lost the ability to see the bigger picture.


#22    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

View Postsupervike, on 10 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Sorry Mr. Fess, you are wrong on this.  Union dues DO NOT GO TO POLITICAL PARTIES.  It is illegal to do so.
Well then how exactly do unions make money because they most definitely give untold millions to the democrat party. Unions are not a business, right? Do they get money from unionized company jobs or services, thereby making them practically business partners? Seriously, if it's not from the dues how do they have all those millions to lobby with and pay protesters across the country to fight for causes they're not even aware of? Supervike, I'm looking to you for answers.

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#23    Gromdor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:36 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Well then how exactly do unions make money because they most definitely give untold millions to the democrat party. Unions are not a business, right? Do they get money from unionized company jobs or services, thereby making them practically business partners? Seriously, if it's not from the dues how do they have all those millions to lobby with and pay protesters across the country to fight for causes they're not even aware of? Supervike, I'm looking to you for answers.

A lot of unions set up a seperate political action fund that goes towards lobbying and is seperate from the union itself.  Members generally vote to contribute to this fund, to lobby on their behalf.  Union membership here in Iowa tends to be 1/6 republican, 1/6 democrat, 1/6 libertarian, and 1/2 too lazy to vote from my experience.


#24    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:48 AM

View PostGromdor, on 11 December 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

A lot of unions set up a seperate political action fund that goes towards lobbying and is seperate from the union itself.  Members generally vote to contribute to this fund, to lobby on their behalf.  Union membership here in Iowa tends to be 1/6 republican, 1/6 democrat, 1/6 libertarian, and 1/2 too lazy to vote from my experience.
Which must make you wonder how they accumulate millions let alone millions for just one party. I find it hard to believe they could gain such funding election after election on volunteered funds alone with or without that kind of political division you show. Even if every member was a full fledged democrat the fraction of those willing to contribute to such funds would never garner the significant amounts of money especially election after election and then you gotta think about how many of those contributors are contributing anything of real significance like more than a buck or two each paycheck.

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#25    Gromdor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 11 December 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

Which must make you wonder how they accumulate millions let alone millions for just one party. I find it hard to believe they could gain such funding election after election on volunteered funds alone with or without that kind of political division you show. Even if every member was a full fledged democrat the fraction of those willing to contribute to such funds would never garner the significant amounts of money especially election after election and then you gotta think about how many of those contributors are contributing anything of real significance like more than a buck or two each paycheck.

The power of people.  A union that is a million strong donating $1 a paycheck adds up quick.  But for the most part I think people over estimate the power of unions.  The company I work for is an interstate company and beat a smaller merit shop on a $100,000 job by $10,000.  The requirements of the job required that we had to use material from the same vendor and that was $80,000 of the cost of the project.  The merit shop owner had a fit.  He knew the price of union labor and knew that there was no way for our company to beat his bid.  He told the customer that the union must of "Bought" the job just to get him and that the big money from Washington was being brought in to drive him out of business.  The customer asked me if this was true.  Turns out the material vendor gave us a 15% discount because we were an interstate company and they wanted to develop a business relationship with us.


#26    Sakari

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:40 AM

Nevada is considered a " right to work State ".

I can say, everyone that lives and works there know what that really means, and say it often ...." right to fire State "

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#27    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:46 AM

View PostSakari, on 11 December 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Nevada is considered a " right to work State ".

I can say, everyone that lives and works there know what that really means, and say it often ...." right to fire State "
That beats the hell out of "can't get fired". If I couldn't fire the people I have fired I can guarantee you that I wouldn't be in a position to do such a thing because I would be out of business by now. How dare a company have the right to choose who stays on their staff? That's the thing about unions. Fair worker and discrimination laws are already on the books, for every business.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 11 December 2012 - 01:48 AM.

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#28    Gromdor

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:02 AM

Right to work states tend to have an "at will employment" clause.  The business relationship can end for good cause, bad cause or no cause with no liability.  What is happening in Nevada is people being fired for no cause on a rather large scale.  Naturally this is irking some people.


#29    F3SS

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostGromdor, on 11 December 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Right to work states tend to have an "at will employment" clause.  The business relationship can end for good cause, bad cause or no cause with no liability.  What is happening in Nevada is people being fired for no cause on a rather large scale.  Naturally this is irking some people.
So the employer has full say as to who's involved in his/her business. On what planet is does that not sound right?

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#30    Odin11

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:20 AM

View PostGromdor, on 11 December 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Right to work states tend to have an "at will employment" clause.  The business relationship can end for good cause, bad cause or no cause with no liability.  What is happening in Nevada is people being fired for no cause on a rather large scale.  Naturally this is irking some people.

I think Michigan is already an ""at will employment" state.

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