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China struggles to ban superstition


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#16    mischamoonlight

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:52 PM

China is barbaric whether religious or not, their treatment of animals is horrific! Sort that problem out first, killing animals in their billions, skinning and boiling animals alive, can't say that's very civilized or progressive...


#17    spartan max2

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:05 PM

Lets force people how to think cause that always works out....

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#18    Ashyne

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:17 PM

View PostOverSword, on 25 April 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Says the person who lived under a communist regime.  He is correct however, studies have indicated people with strong spiritual beliefs do tend to be capable of maintaining a positive attitude better under stressful conditions than those who don't.

They do that by using a non-existent god as an excuse for everything, to push responsibility elsewhere instead of learning from their mistakes and accepting responsibility for themselves so that they can improve, instead of using their religion as a mental crutch. In my country, I hear people using the "This is God's Will" excuse all the time for when something goes wrong and so they blame it on their god.

Examples:

A toddler crawls out of the open window and falls to his death. Instead of blaming herself for being irresponsible by leaving the window open, the mother pushes the blame elsewhere and says: "This is God's Will." (that her toddler died this way, that it was his fate and she could not have done anything about it)

A man loses his son in a car accident. Instead of working with the police to find the culprit, he keeps telling the police: "This is God's Will" and refuses to co-operate. (believing that his son was meant to die this way, that it was his fate and he could not have done anything about it)

These are all real incidents reported in the newspapers in my country over the years. I just picked these examples to show how religion is a mental crutch and stunts personal, mental growth.

Edited by Ashiene, 25 April 2013 - 03:23 PM.

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#19    GreenmansGod

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

When they close down the bear bile and tiger farms then I'll think they are on the right track.  Otherwise they are just p***ing in the wind. The more you try to force what people think, the more they will hang on to their beliefs even if deep down they know it is BS.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie

#20    redhen

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 25 April 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Lets force people how to think cause that always works out....

That's the whole point of the article. After years of suppression and a murderous 10 year period of cultural revolution whose, "stated goal was to enforce communism in the country by removing capitalist, traditional and cultural elements from Chinese society" superstition remains just as popular.

Too bad they can't just distill all the useful philosophical bits out of Taoism and Confucianism and give up the alchemy and voodoo.


#21    highdesert50

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:50 AM

Once again, I would encourage people to approach the research in an unbiased manner. Good research is based on methods, results, and limitations that are clearly defined, generalizable to a defined population, and repeatable, that is, the research encompasses both validity and reliability. To debate research is healthy.  But to negate the research due to personal biases, all-or-nothing thinking, or jumping to conclusions, ultimately erodes us of the opportunity to be empathetic, that is to be critical thinkers, and to be able to put things into perspective without "catastrophizing" nor minimizing.

Edited by highdesert50, 26 April 2013 - 03:56 AM.


#22    Mikko-kun

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

There might be some very questionable superstitions, like those that involve sacrficing and even torturing living beings. I think that no sane person would be able to do that to their pet, but the fact of the world is that what we eat was formerly alive and it was killed for us. Westerners throw away a lot of food and overeat, how is this exactly different? Saying "I didn't mean to, it just happened" doesn't help much. Respecting life through destroying it might sound very absurd, but is ignoring you destroy it more or less absurd?

My point is, even sacrifices might have some thought behind them, but it does sound like people use the sacrificing rite to clear away their own problems instead of doing it for some greater good. Sacrificing living beings because you believe that brings luck in lovelife or stock market or makes you feel more at ease... that's wrong, and it may seem to help only because of the possible placebo effect that's there, placebo that can heighten when you have stronger foundations for your beliefs. Whether those beliefs are true to their core or not, is another matter.

That said, I dont think that simply banning blindly helps much, because people do these things to improve their lives, whether it's their spiritual, emotional or more mundane life. To me it just tells there's a vacuum for improvements in there, and that you should first find and ground new ways of improving your life and finding ways to believe in this world. If you're not allowed to think this and that, you seek mental, identity-independence and "your (cultural) way" elsewhere. Suppressing more only creates more behavior that's out of place.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:55 AM

View Postmischamoonlight, on 25 April 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

China is barbaric whether religious or not, their treatment of animals is horrific! Sort that problem out first, killing animals in their billions, skinning and boiling animals alive, can't say that's very civilized or progressive...
I fully agree, but think the aspects of any society that degrade minorities and women and gays and the handicapped and the poor need to be addressed as the first priority.  Here, Chinese society is doing a lot better than many others.


#24    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

And they say that atheists don't congregate and try to exercise control over the populace.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#25    3.0

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:32 AM

China has been exporting its religions and values for years!  Who hasn't seen a movie full of Chinese actors/actresses fighting Kung Fu and teaching us there religion?  Millions of dollars in cash flow to there people because of these movies.  They should follow the values they export, and let there people freely choose.


#26    Starseed hybrid 1111

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:01 PM

come on china are you really that hungry and determined to shut people down from freedom of speech to freedom of belief man boy am i glad i don't live in china.the U.S.A is not the best either but a least its a little more different here.


#27    Ralaman

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

The Chinese Government is a laughable example of how the human being has not evolved past the point of total stupidity. Useless little officials trying to ban beliefs because it differs from their own. I spit on them.

Edited by Azznerak the Black, 15 May 2013 - 01:01 AM.


#28    xFelix

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:57 AM

Freedom of religious belief not allowed eh?

Guess who's not going to China anytime soon?

Edited by xFelix, 15 May 2013 - 03:58 AM.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#29    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:29 AM

It is very hard to establish accurate figures for China. A number of surveys  from the 1990s to recent years indicate about 14% of chinese declare themsleves as atheists.  Different modern surveys indicate that between 30% (200 million) and 60% (400 million) chinese express an attachment to one of the main religious groups, including taoism. Other sources say that taoism and animism  alone have about 400 million adherents in China. What is clear is that a "sense of spirit" is alive and well in china, and I dont think the govt has much chance of  succeding in this aim

"For a ruling party which follows Marxism, we need to help people establish a correct world view and to scientifically deal with birth, ageing, sickness and death, as well as fortune and misfortune, via popularizing scientific knowledge," he said, in rare public comments on the government's religious policy.

There is no "correct world view." Only world views which work for people. And a majority of chinese, as with all humans, seem to find that what works for them includes more than just a materialist, or even a "scientific", approach to life and living.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#30    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostDarkwind, on 25 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

When they close down the bear bile and tiger farms then I'll think they are on the right track.  Otherwise they are just p***ing in the wind. The more you try to force what people think, the more they will hang on to their beliefs even if deep down they know it is BS.

I dont agree I do not think that people hang on to beliefs unless they believe in them  (and have reasons for believing in them) "Deep down" I suspect they have even stronger beliefs. It is the nature of how humans construct thought and relate to their environment from birth.
On the other hand I agree that no one can force another what to believe. It just doesn't work.

As to the treatment of animals, I am a  great supporter of animal rights and have both donated considerable money to causes and animlalwelfare groups  in china, and written to the chinese premier and government on this issue.

But One has to be careful about imposing ones own values and attitudes on others; especially in the case of China which is very sensitive to this "moralising from the west." Evolution rather than revolution is always a more successful way to change a society's world views.

Edited by Mr Walker, 15 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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