Reality check: Canada's government health

[__Kratos__]

KINGSTON, Ontario (CNN) -- For Shona Holmes, simple pleasures such as playing with her dog or walking in her plush garden are a gift.

After suffering from crushing headaches and vision problems, she was diagnosed with a brain tumor four years ago.She was told if it wasn't removed, she could go blind or even die.

"They said to me that you had a brain tumor and it was pressing on your optic chasm and that it needed to come out immediately," Holmes said.

Read more...

Just one of the stories I've heard lately since the US has been talking about government health care.

[Startraveler]

What's the point? Neither the Senate Finance plan, the Senate HELP plan, nor the House Tri Committee plan involves turning the U.S. health care system into a single-payer system like Canada's Medicare. This is a pretty old trick--discuss ideas that aren't on the table to distract from those that are.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Startraveler

[__Kratos__]

It's comparing ideas to other ideas that are similar. Not that far off base.

[+DieChecker]

Just one of the stories I've heard lately since the US has been talking about government health care.

I see this as being at least partly what the US will experience with "Healthcare for All". Longer lines and slower service. Those who have the money will still get the premium care, but those who will be stigma'ed with the government plan will have to wait in line. Probably the best doctors and centers will take the more expensive insurances and again the poorer will be left with whatever/whoever they can find. The difference will be that they will not go broke getting they care, they will simply be either refused or suffer horribly waiting to see a specialist.

I saw the other day that Obama dismissed Ron Wyden's plan for healthcare reform. He said it was to radical, I believe. It is the only plan that has a way for he plan to be paid for that is not a bunch of maybe's and if's. My helthcare from Intel is top notch, and I pay for it. Like 10% of my take home pay. So, any way this reform falls out, I'm going to do OK.

I'm just interested in how these other plans expect to pay for all this free healthcare? Bankrupt the rest of the budget, or just keep spending money that is not there?

[Thanato]

Its not necessarily the healthcare system its the fact that there is a doctor shortage because people just don't want to spend that time in university.

I and millions of other Canadians would not change our health care system if given the choice. For every sad story there are four times that at least in happy endings.

~Thanato

[+DieChecker]

Its not necessarily the healthcare system its the fact that there is a doctor shortage because people just don't want to spend that time in university.

I and millions of other Canadians would not change our health care system if given the choice. For every sad story there are four times that at least in happy endings.

~Thanato

I certainly hope it is more then 4 times, as that implies 20% of the people are not happy with their healthcare.

And why be a doctor in Canada, whey you can move to the US and make 4 times as much money.

Edited July 7, 2009 by DieChecker

[IronGhost]

Sure you can find horror stories about any health care system in the world -- but to decry "rationing" in the Canadian system, ad therefore call it inferior to the U.S. is totally ridiculous.

We not only have "rationing" here in the U.S. now -- we have perhaps 10 times as much rationing as in C anada -- it's called being poor or unemployed, or working at a low-paying job that does not offer coverage.

What about the 50 million people in the U.S. who have no health insurance at all. They only wish they could be rationed -- because they have no heath care choices as all. There's millions more who have jobs, but only have "sht**y coverage plans that pay for only catastrophic problems -- the rest comes out of their own pocket.

I also wish people would not call Canada's -- or any public plan "free." It's not free -- public plans are paid for with the taxes of the citizens -- which is still a much cheaper way than our private system which is based on profit, not on helping people.

The bottom line is, in Canada, they spend one-third less on healtch care than we do in the U.S., they have a longer life span on average thean the U.S. -- and everyone is covered.

Here, we spend a third more than the Canucks -- yet we leave 50 millions of our fellow citizens out on the cold -- if they don't have any cash or insurance, they can pretty much *uck off and die -- or go to the emergency room, get treated at 10 times the cost -- and the rest of us pick up the tab.

I say bring on a Canadian style system to the U.S. -- far from perfect, yet far superior to our greed and profit driven system.

Edited July 7, 2009 by IronGhost

[momentarylapseofreason]

That's funny because last weekend I asked some people from Alberta, Canada how truly bad the health care system really is over there.

They said the health care system is fine and that it works. They do it in the order of need and they never had a problem when she suffered from breast cancer. They said that the claims over here are mostly exaggerated propaganda . But when you read the link below you can see that Canada's health care is not as efficient as some other countries. Obama admin. never claimed they would use the Canada model. Funny how the people that are against social health care don't use the better systems as examples.

Health Care Around the World: An Introduction

April 14, 2008 in Health Care Around the World, International Health Care Systems

Recently I came across an article by Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute title “The Grass is Not Always Greener: A Look at National Health Care Systems Around the World.” I figured that the article would be a highly biased piece of writing which would show that the U.S. healthcare system is great and the universal health care systems of Western Europe are horrible.

While the article does tend to highlight some of the drawbacks of centralized, planned medical care, the article has a well-researched, thorough review of the health care systems of many countries.

For the next week or so, I will be summarizing the health care systems in some of these countries. How do these health care systems operate? Which countries have the “best” health care systems? What are the pros and cons of each system? I hope you find these summaries enlightening.

The link to all the summaries can be found here. The countries who’s health care systems I will discuss are:

* France,

* Italy,

* Spain,

* Japan,

* Norway,

* Portugal,

* Greece,

* Great Britain,

* Switzerland,

* Germany,

* Canada.

Link below describes each country and how well or not it works in each country and how it is financed

http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14...n-introduction/

Edited July 7, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[The Silver Thong]

That's funny because last weekend I asked some people from Alberta, Canada how truly bad the heath care system really is over there.

They said the health care system is fine and that it works. They do it in the order of need and they never had a problem when she suffered from breast cancer. They said that the claims over here are mostly exaggerated propaganda

It's very true what you say about the propaganda. Most of these stories are true as sometimes the system has it faults as I'm sure Americans can understand However these stories are cherry picked and glorified, for reasons I don't know. Fear of universal health care equals communism maybe ?

I have had so many visits to the hospital for broken bones and yes the flu as well lol never a dime out of my pocket nor a rise in a so called insurance premium. Yes here in Canada if you have the money you can get special care. No one will deny that. However that does not take away from universal health care as anyone can receive treatment for free. I wonder how many people in the U.S. don't go to doctors as often as they should? could it be due to cost? hence a bigger problem down the road with more elderly sickly people?

[momentarylapseofreason]

It's very true what you say about the propaganda. Most of these stories are true as sometimes the system has it faults as I'm sure Americans can understand However these stories are cherry picked and glorified, for reasons I don't know. Fear of universal health care equals communism maybe ?

I have had so many visits to the hospital for broken bones and yes the flu as well lol never a dime out of my pocket nor a rise in a so called insurance premium. Yes here in Canada if you have the money you can get special care. No one will deny that. However that does not take away from universal health care as anyone can receive treatment for free. I wonder how many people in the U.S. don't go to doctors as often as they should? could it be due to cost? hence a bigger problem down the road with more elderly sickly people?

I have one of the better health care insurances here in the U.S. and my health care was still better in Germany (socialized). I am high risk for breast cancer- they give me 1 mammogram a year here. in Germany I get 1 mammogram a year including 2 ultrasounds a year. They recommended 2 mammograms but I said no because of the radiation. Recently I had a pap smear with abnormal cells, they told me to come in for a biopsy-next day they called and said no need -to come back in a year (wtf?). In Germany when I had an abnormal pap smear-they called me right back in within a couple days to re-test.

I told my doctor here that I had a neck injury which gives me headaches and causes blurred vision (even without headaches). He told me to go to physical therapy and not to a Orthopedic doctor because they might want to operate. He perscribed pills. In Germany I got Chinese massage and acupuncture that made all the pain go away without pain pills.

In Germany I was diagnosed with glaucoma, they used all this fancy technology, the doctor over here says I don't have glaucoma, but I'm going to find a doctor with new equipment, I know they have it. (sometimes eye pressure can be temporarily elevated the doc here explained)

But the dental is much better over here. IMO much better (except in Germany all kids get free braces up to the age of 18)

Edited July 7, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

It's very true what you say about the propaganda. Most of these stories are true as sometimes the system has it faults as I'm sure Americans can understand However these stories are cherry picked and glorified, for reasons I don't know. Fear of universal health care equals communism maybe ?

I have had so many visits to the hospital for broken bones and yes the flu as well lol never a dime out of my pocket nor a rise in a so called insurance premium. Yes here in Canada if you have the money you can get special care. No one will deny that. However that does not take away from universal health care as anyone can receive treatment for free. I wonder how many people in the U.S. don't go to doctors as often as they should? could it be due to cost? hence a bigger problem down the road with more elderly sickly people?

Well, we had a friend that died from skin cancer because he couldn't afford the treatments supposedly (I was in Germany meanwhile). But i thought they have to treat you here?

[FurthurBB]

Just one of the stories I've heard lately since the US has been talking about government health care.

Since single payer government run healthcare is not even on the table, why would you bring this up?

[FurthurBB]

It's comparing ideas to other ideas that are similar. Not that far off base.

No actually, they are nothing alike. If you can find a story like this from Israel, then I will commend you on actually thinking about the subject at hand.

[Relle]

I've never had a problem with Canada's health care system, not that I've had to use it much!

When I was pregnant with my first kid I had some bleeding. Got into emergency right away and an ultra sound booked for later in the week. When I had both of my kids I had a great private room that I didn't have to pay for. And excellent care.

There are long waits for certain things. There's a shortage of doctors here and technicians. They have the ultrasound machines, MRIs etc, etc running 24 hours a day to keep up with the demand.

I wouldn't trade this system for anything. I don't mind paying higher taxes for it.

[Lt_Ripley]

Its not necessarily the healthcare system its the fact that there is a doctor shortage because people just don't want to spend that time in university.

I and millions of other Canadians would not change our health care system if given the choice. For every sad story there are four times that at least in happy endings.

~Thanato

agreed. I live 20 from the Canadian boarder . many of my friends are Canadian. One of whom had breast cancer that because she put off seeing a doctor has spread into her muscle mass and was in both her breasts ........

she was in for surgery the same week it was all discovered.

we have stories here in the US where cancer is over looked as not to worry about ........then shortly after wards to be seen as too late to do anything. Where people have gone in to have one limb amputated to wake up and find the wrong one was.

David Grose, 39, a Paris, Texas, welder, had a cancerous growth on his nose but couldn't get treatment without insurance. In desperation last fall, he took a bus 300 miles to one of the country's premier cancer centers in Houston, only to be turned away because he didn't have insurance.

http://www.heart-intl.net/HEART/061508/Texanstryingto.htm

and if you don't have the cash ?? you have to wait to be put on Medicaid. if you qualify ........ and that can take months .

neither system is perfect.

[The Silver Thong]

Well, we had a friend that died from skin cancer because he couldn't afford the treatments supposedly (I was in Germany meanwhile). But i thought they have to treat you here?

I fell off my motorcycle about 5 years ago and broke my nose and my jaw and fractured my neck and skull. I recieved top notch care immediatly the only thing I had to pay for was the nice ride in the ambulance the oh so awsome drugs they gave me were free LOL

If you are diagnosed with anything here and given it's severity one can see treatment that same day. The horror stories are true but few and far between imo. I was diagnosed with a bone desease about a month or so ago and have already recieved extensive treatment and it's not that severe, so I have no complaints at all. The nice thing to is that you know your getting the same treatment as a guy that makes half a million a year unless of course they opt to go to a private clinic and pay through the nose. Then again they will get the same treatment just quicker and all on there dime.

[questionmark]

Reality check: How many Canadians loose their home and savings because they got sick, and how many U.S.-Americans?

[The Silver Thong]

Reality check: How many Canadians loose their home and savings because they got sick, and how many U.S.-Americans?

Interesting question and the answer seems all to obvious.

[Stardrive]

Reality check: How many Canadians loose their home and savings because they got sick, and how many U.S.-Americans?

Which is why if I were diagnosed with a serious illness, that's the last they (the doctor) would see of me. I would refuse to leave my family a mountain of debt as my legacy.

[The Silver Thong]

Which is why if I were diagnosed with a serious illness, that's the last they (the doctor) would see of me. I would refuse to leave my family a mountain of debt as my legacy.

Boy that is terrible when people have to go to these lengths to save the family from medical bankruptcy. Allmost like suicide to save your family if you get sick, very sad indeed.

[Stardrive]

Boy that is terrible when people have to go to these lengths to save the family from medical bankruptcy. Allmost like suicide to save your family if you get sick, very sad indeed.

It's all a matter of perspective. I was speaking from "terminal illness" aspect. None of us are going to make it out of here alive anyways..

[eqgumby]

There are flaws in all the systems. The worse is "non-emergency" care. Socialized medicine minimizes it and there are major delays. I have Canadian relatives that come to the US for health care, then will fly back to Canada for other major care issues (like a heart surgery for example). I also have lived with "socialized" medicine for many years, and it is sometimes ABSURD the lengths one goes to to get care.

[The Silver Thong]

It's all a matter of perspective. I was speaking from "terminal illness" aspect. None of us are going to make it out of here alive anyways..

Ya I kinda figured it would have to be terminal lol wait I didn't mean to lol not funny

[Wickian]

From what I read in that article, tax payers are the ones who foot the bill for cosmetic surgeries as well? That's just wrong.

[The Silver Thong]

From what I read in that article, tax payers are the ones who foot the bill for cosmetic surgeries as well? That's just wrong.

Nope not true. The only time the tax payers pay for cosmetic surgery is when it's required. For example somebody gets burned or maimed we will pay for it. We won't pay for some lady to get a boob job or some guy to get a smaller nose. If we did that I would be right mad. I work with a girl that is getting some sort of ring put on her stomach to lose wieght (can't remember what it's called) it's costing her $ 16.000.00 unnecessary cosmetic surgey is not free. At one point we did pay for peoples gender reassignment but not anymore.