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Landing on asteroids may cause avalanches

asteroids comets avalanches force-chains

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#16    danielost

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:56 PM

I also said an unmanned ship wouldn't be making minute corrections, like one under control by a human.  How you going to simulate something that is completely random for each human would handle the controls differently from the others.  When the men landed on the moon they used a hopping gate.  They didn't practice that on earth.  Armstrong found that the best way to move on moon.

Your just like my dad.  Your both scared someone might by smarter than you.  My dad has gone so far as to believe his own lies about how I did so goood when iwas in school.  He held my back oth figerotively and reality.  My first grade teacher said iu could go to the seventh graded.  My dad put me in the second grade, supposedly so I would be with kids my age.  So I understand your problm

Edited by danielost, 07 July 2013 - 07:03 PM.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#17    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

View Postdanielost, on 07 July 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

I also said an unmanned ship wouldn't be making minute corrections, like one under control by a human.  How you going to simulate something that is completely random for each human would handle the controls differently from the others.  When the men landed on the moon they used a hopping gate.  They didn't practice that on earth.  Armstrong found that the best way to move on moon.

What has this got to do anything?

I repeat, you have either not read or not understood the original article. It says:

Quote

A lander touching down on the surface on one side of a small, rubble-pile asteroid could perhaps cause an avalanche on the other side, by long-range transmission of forces through chains  It would, however, depend on the angle and location of the impact, as well as the history of the surface what kind of memories the regolith holds, said Murdoch.

A lander danielost, not activity by astronauts, there is no mention of that at all, it is simply another one of your inventions. My calculations are based on the work of the scientists, not the guesswork of someone with no scientific ability at all.

View Postdanielost, on 07 July 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Your just like my dad.  Your both scared someone might by smarter than you.  My dad has gone so far as to believe his own lies about how I did so goood when iwas in school.  He held my back oth figerotively and reality.  My first grade teacher said iu could go to the seventh graded.  My dad put me in the second grade, supposedly so I would be with kids my age.  So I understand your problm
This is hardly the place to discuss your psychological problems, it's off topic for a start.

As for me, I know lots of people are smarter than me, that's why I don't go into subjects where I know absolutely nothing and invent stuff to try and look clever, it's a sure fire way of looking very foolish indeed.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#18    ImMike

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:08 AM

Ok... I created an account just to say this. danielost, you have no idea what you are talking about. Unless English is your second language, your father did you the biggest favor of your life by keeping you in second grade. Your last post made absolutely no sense. Also your gravitational field was never and will never be greater than the earth. I don't care how many feathers you stick to yourself or how big of a lunch you had that day.


#19    danielost

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM

Dwarf your mad at me for making a guess and using the words if, might and maybe.  The article that your so proud of used the words, might couse an avolance. That makes that a guess.  So by your attack on me, that article was a waste of space.

To the other person, I am the only one on this thread that is using his immaganation.  Dwarf has a phd and assumes anyone with out one is stupid.  I don't know well enough to say why you think I am stupid.  But I would GUESS it is because dwarf thinks I am.  Now the gravity field is much smaller than earths. If the rock is small enough there might be a chance for an asternaut may lounch himself into space.

Edited to add.

By the way dwarf your math has to do with the amount of force at landing.  I was mainly talking gravity fields.
But, as I have said twice now.  A robot can not land as a human could, because of the minute corrections you have to make.  I am guessing you have never played any of the lander games if you had you would know what I am talking about.

Edited by danielost, 08 July 2013 - 07:30 PM.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#20    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:35 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Dwarf your mad at me
I not mad with you. It may be personal for you, it's not for me.

I am, however, bored with your posts. I'm bored with them because you repeatedly make statements of fact which are are no such thing and are usually totally wrong. I am bored with them because I have better things to do than correct the nonsensical idiocy you see fit to post in the science sections. I am bored them because you make yourself look foolish with the nonsense you post but don't take responsibility for your own actions, but instead try to blame everyone else.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

for making a guess
Guessing has NO place in science.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

and using the words if, might and maybe.

I'm also bored with your intellectual dishonesty. Posting complete (and usually incorrect) guesses as if they are fact. Here is your reply to Crashley

View Postdanielost, on 05 July 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

A unmanned mission won't work, the vessel wouldn't have the mass of a manned mission would.  Also, a robot wouln't need to keep making corrections that a man would.  The other problem is the manned ship might have enough mass to pull any loe rocks to it.

As for rock piles we just have to make sure we don't land on one.  That I where your unmanned mission would come into it.
Not once did you point out it was only your opinion, not once did you say it is only a guess, and only in the sentence where you show a complete ignorance of the strength of gravity did you use the word might. The rest of the nonsense you presented as fact.


View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The article that your so proud of used the words, might couse an avolance. That makes that a guess.
No it doesn't. If I say, "if you don't look both ways when you cross the road" it is not a guess. If I say, "if you drop the glass it might smash", it is not a guess. If I say, "if you drive drunk you might kill someone", it is not a guess. These statements are factually correct, it is just that the outcome is not necessarily certain.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

So by your attack on me,
I didn't attack you, I attacked the nonsense you posted.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

that article was a waste of space.
No!

Your guess is based on nothing. It has no supporting evidence, no observational data, no mathematical calculations to support it, no empirical evidence what so ever. It is made up nonsense by someone who (as demonstrated by the rubbish you have written above) understands NOTHING about how science works.

The original article I linked to is an hypothesis created by experts in their fields based on experimentation and a deep understanding of the principles involved. It combines observations made during experiments with the known phenomenon of force-chains between particles.

They use words such as "might", "possible", "could be" etc not because they are guessing but because they understand the nature of a scientific hypothesis. They understand that any hypothesis is only as good as the supporting evidence. They understand that future missions to asteroids could confirm or refute their claims. They use these words because of intellectual honesty.

The fact that you believe your (wrong) guesses are the equal of the scientific conclusions of a team of scientists who are experts in the relevant fields says volumes about your grasp (or lack of grasp) of what constitutes science.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

To the other person, I am the only one on this thread that is using his immaganation.
Imagination is a wonderful thing, but science is EVIDENCE and FACT based. Your guesses are not.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Dwarf has a phd and assumes anyone with out one is stupid.
There you go with making up stuff again. I do not have a PhD, nor have I ever claimed to have one. That in itself should show that second part of your invention can't be true.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I don't know well enough to say why you think I am stupid.
And more invention. Neither I, nor ImMike have said that you are stupid. We have both said you don't know what you are talking about. That is not the same thing at all. For all I know Albert Einstein knew nothing about the history of China in the 14th century. That would not make him stupid, it would make him ignorant of that subject. If he then went on to make claims about the history of China in the 14th century based on guess work and ignorance then he would be foolish. Intelligence and knowledge are NOT the same thing.

Now I have warned you enough times in the past about making false allegations against people, I really suggest that you don't do it again.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

But I would GUESS it is because dwarf thinks I am.
Ignoring the fact that he didn't call you stupid, it doesn't even cross your mind that the reason he says you don't know what you are talking about is because you don't know what you are talking about does it. You post total nonsense, someone tells you you have posted total nonsense, therefore it's might fault. [sarcasm]Very logical.[/sarcasm]

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Now the gravity field is much smaller than earths. If the rock is small enough there might be a chance for an asternaut may lounch himself into space.
Whilst true this irrelevant to the problem of force-chain caused avalanches.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

By the way dwarf your math has to do with the amount of force at landing.
Yes it was, because that it was the article was about.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I was mainly talking gravity fields.
Yes you were, and demonstrating no understanding of them at all.

continued below...

Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 08 July 2013 - 10:22 PM.
typos and clarifications

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#21    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:40 PM

Continued...

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

But, as I have said twice now.
It doesn't matter how often you repeat rubbish, it remains rubbish.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

A robot can not land as a human could,
Yes it can.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

because of the minute corrections you have to make.
The corrections required for landing are the same whether carried out by computer or by an astronaut. Physics remains the same in both cases. It neither knows nor cares whether the vehicle is manned or not.

Beside these manoeuvres are totally irrelevant, it is the force imparted on the asteroid at the point of landing (or impact) which matter (go and read the original article). The corrections before landing will play no part.

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

I am guessing you have never played any of the lander games if you had you would know what I am talking about.
You  are joking right? Sadly I suspect you are not. You base your arguments on computer games and the fictional movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind and you wonder why no one takes your posts seriously.

Edited to add:
{b]danielost[/b]
You may wonder why, if I am so bored with your post, I continue to respond to them. It's because I care about scientific truth, I fear that someone may actually believe the stuff you post. One of your fellow countrymen says it far better than I ever could.

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Edited by Waspie_Dwarf, 08 July 2013 - 09:11 PM.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#22    ImMike

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:06 PM

View Postdanielost, on 08 July 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:


To the other person, I am the only one on this thread that is using his immaganation.  Dwarf has a phd and assumes anyone with out one is stupid.  I don't know well enough to say why you think I am stupid.  But I would GUESS it is because dwarf thinks I am.  Now the gravity field is much smaller than earths. If the rock is small enough there might be a chance for an asternaut may lounch himself into space.


I said what I did based solely on what you have written. This thread is the first time I've read what either of you have posted so I don't know why you would think I would take his side for no reason. Your posts are full of typos and many sentences you have written make no sense at all. You are also saying things that are completely untrue and passing it off as fact. Instead of admitting you are wrong or even trying understand what other people are saying, you just come back and spout out more incorrect or irrelevant information.

I also do not have a PHD. I didn't even finish college, and I'm willing to say that there is a lot in this field that is over my head. If someone tells me I'm wrong about something I said, I would try to find out why they are saying that and if I can't come up with anything to disprove it, I would admit I was wrong. You seem to be incapable doing this.


#23    danielost

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM

That is your problem.  I said a robot cannot land a ship like a human can.  I was not talking about the weight of the ship.  I was talking about the pilot of the ship.

Did you see the movie apallo thirteen.  The scene in which they use the earth as a target to align the ship for its return course.  The humans were bouncing that ship all over the place.  The final line was we had to learn how to fly all over again.  What made that manouver so hard is that there were two humans at the control, instead of one computer.  If the domputer had bee up the manouver would have been smooth.

Everything else I said had a quilifing word in it to tell everyone who read it would know it was a guess. Just as the person who wrote the article. Did.  Your problem is I am a high school drop out and you have a phd and I am ableto keep up with you. Altho my ablet cannot keep up with me on these long posts

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#24    danielost

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:02 AM

Immike dwarf didn't like the way I said it not what I said.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#25    JMPD1

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:05 AM

Welcome to UM ImMike.  Keep your eyes and ears open and you can learn some neat things here.  There are some extremely clever and sharp folk hereabouts!

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#26    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:31 AM

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

That is your problem.  I said a robot cannot land a ship like a human can.  I was not talking about the weight of the ship.  I was talking about the pilot of the ship.
Yes I understood what you said. You didn't but I did.

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Did you see the movie apallo thirteen.  The scene in which they use the earth as a target to align the ship for its return course.  The humans were bouncing that ship all over the place.  The final line was we had to learn how to fly all over again.  What made that manouver so hard is that there were two humans at the control, instead of one computer.  If the domputer had bee up the manouver would have been smooth.
How do you manage to be so wrong so often?

  • That scene was highly exaggerated for dramatic effect. Hollywood movies are not renowned for there scientific accuracy.
  • Do you really think a manned mission would attempt a landing on an asteroid if it had suffered total computer failure? Just because a mission is manned it doesn't mean they will switch off the computers, or are you basing your argument on the scene in Star Wars where Luke uses the Force instead of his computer to attack the Death Star.
  • I repeat YET AGAIN; only those forces transferred to the asteroid at the point of landing or impact will have an effect on the asteroid. Manoeuvring before landing, however rough or smooth, will have zero effect.

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Everything else I said had a quilifing word in it to tell everyone who read it would know it was a guess. Just as the person who wrote the article. Did.
No it didn't. I quoted EXACTLY what you said and highlighted the definite words you used.

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Your problem is I am a high school drop out
No, my problem is that you post stuff that is wrong over and over again. Then (despite the links provided) rather than have the integrity to admit you are wrong, or even the common-sense to check to see if you are wrong, you argue by posting even more bull.

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

and you have a phd and I am ableto keep up with you. Altho my ablet cannot keep up with me on these long posts
Which part of the following didn't you understand?

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 08 July 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

There you go with making up stuff again. I do not have a PhD, nor have I ever claimed to have one.

View Postdanielost, on 09 July 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

and I am ableto keep up with you.
Really? You carry on believing it if it makes you happy.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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#27    ImMike

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:14 AM

View PostJMPD1, on 09 July 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

Welcome to UM ImMike.  Keep your eyes and ears open and you can learn some neat things here.  There are some extremely clever and sharp folk hereabouts!

Thanks :)





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