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What happens when you die?


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#91    wolfknight

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:58 PM

We die. Come back as something else. The body turned to dust.


#92    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:10 PM

View Post_Only, on 25 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:



I have been thinking while writing my dreams down and looking at them that maybe dreams and dream like scenarios (like NDEs) are completely non physical situations, translated by us in the only way our minds here know; physically. Something comes to us in a dream (maybe a presence, being, thought, emotion) and makes us feel a certain way, and one person will translate that thing into a mermaid, another a Native American spirit, etc. The mind translating what it doesn't understand into something it already does. If this was true, the emotions felt around the mermaid/spirit would be the important thing, not the physical-ish being itself.
I think your correct, but not all dream imagery is misinterpretation. I think We are psychological as well as spiritual beings. Dreams serve a purpose though it's not entirely understood.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#93    Sean93

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:17 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 26 November 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Well many do believe certain kinds of dreams have spiritual components. Yes many have similar dreams. On function of dreaming is where internal conflicts play out. We all have had our teeth fall out and tooth decay is a real problem that we all face. Equating that with the standard NDE seems like quit a stretch. But it wouldn't matter anyway. Why would many thousands potentially millions, if we stretch back into history, of people have the same kind of "dream/hullucination" upon near death that strongly hints at an after life and a spirit realm. Not only that.... The experience has a definite positive corololation with the development of life saveing technology.

Yes that is as far as you are aware. But that dosnt make it fundamental reality. There are two hypothesis:

1) the brain is a materialistic producer of conciousness

2) the brain is a receiver of conciousness ( like a radio)

In either scenario the physical brain and it's components are entirely necessary. Any tampering with it will produce affects. If I were to make a prediction 100 years ago using the brain as receiver theory, one of them would be that there would be more NDEs with better medical technology. I'll make the prediction now. As lifesaveing technologies improve from this point in history, we will see more incidents of NDEs.

The teeth falling out isn't about tooth decay, it's interpreted as something to do with your words, of course I don't believe in dream interpretation being anything other than what is on our mind, to call brain function spiritual is, to myself, stupid, I've lucid dreamed, I Astral Project all the time (Yeah right, it's sleep paralysis coupled with a lucid dream idiots :td: ) and I still see it as nothing more than the brain carrying out a simple funtion. My Grandfather died recently and I've had about 5 dreams about him. Some would say it's a message from beyond but to me that's just stupid, I dreamt of him because I was thinking of him, it happens to me a lot, I 9 times out of 10 dream about something that is on my mind or have seen, no matter how brief.  

When you speak of the brain being a reciever of consciouness, are you saying that where consciouness is being recieved from is a spirtual place/being?

Like I said, NDE's may be true, it's just that they don't prove any religion because they vary from each religion, culture and individual. Also, if the consistent contents of an NDE's are biological, it would make sense in case that other neurolgical defects/conditions come with consistent 'symptoms' such as hallucinations and hearing sounds, seeing relatives and hearing the big voice most likely come from the fact that it's what has become the norm for people to expect in such as situation- but again, who knows right? If NDE's are in fact real however and show us an afterlife, it's not the afterlife of the world religions unless Polytheism is the case which in effect, condtradicts the religions which claim one god: Exodus 8:10, Surat al-Qasas:70, Hinduism's 'One God as Many'  (could also apply to Christianity too with the Trinity and it's saints as demi-Gods)

The way I see it, if NDE's are real, they show us an afterlife not of our small minded, human influenced religions, but something more, a higher order. Like George Carlin says "I think we're part of a a higher order, call it what you want, I call it the Big Electron. It doesn't punsih, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all, it just is and so are we, for a little while". If there is a 'god', then that's what I see IT/ THEY as too.


If there is a god/god's and they want us to believe in them so badly, they should stop ******* with us and come out and show themselves instead of basking on their thrones and pulling our strings, demanding praise (some of them) and above all, being sadistic ****s.

Posted Image

Edited by Sean93, 26 November 2012 - 04:30 PM.

"Regarding life, the wisest men of all ages have judged it alike: It is worthless."

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

#94    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:47 PM

Well Sean, you seem to teeter on the brink of horribly fallacious thought and immature name calleing and then descent critical thinking skills and articulate understanding. My guess is that you are young.

You are right!!! NDEs if real do not proove a specific religion. If you are an astral projector, then you understand the deeply personal representations of internal imagery. Somone capable of clearing their thoughts and becoming a pure observer while keeping their sponsoring intents in check has every reason to believe the journey is much more than lucid dreaming. Not "idiots" as you say.

And you are incorrect. Lucid dreams are a completely different place in the mind than when the journey occures. EEG patterns can be observed while Somone is lucid dreaming. The dreamer can send eye signals to a researcher who then records their brainwaves.

The journey, what little has been recorded, in scientific terms using brainwave patterns would be described as an induced sustained lucid hypnagogic state. Not a dream at all.



"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#95    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

View PostSean93, on 26 November 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:


[size=3]The teeth falling out isn't about tooth decay

When you speak of the brain being a reciever of consciouness, are you saying that where consciouness is being recieved from is a spirtual place/being?


No but it is a common experience that we then place our own meanings to. I don't buy universal dream inturpretations.

Could be. Or tuning into a universal conciousness that permiates everything or a collective subconscious. Possibly monophsyicic in nature.

Still yet I'm not opposed to the idea of multiple dementions and our physical parts just being part of a larger construct. Not unlike an arm of an octopus just multi dimentional. When this part gets cut off it regrows at another time. Life is quite amazing. Now extend those amazing attributes through many dimensions and potentially eternity, and I dont think the sky is the limit.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#96    Quaentum

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

We die, get processed and come back as

Posted Image

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#97    Artaxerxes

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:56 PM

This life isn't about this life. It's all in preparation for the next. A very temporary place where we come for just a short while to experience duality and separation, time and space, and make memories of what it was like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.  

It's the answer to the question, "why does God allow suffering? Or "how does God allow so much suffering?"

When we get to the other side we look back on what happened in this life like it was a "dream in itself." Or as the Universe as a Hologram calls it, "Maya, an illusion." While we are here we think it's a long time but when we get to the other side it all seems like it happened in the "blink of an eye."

All lessons, a school, a place to learn what it was we were sent here to learn. And it has to be the way it is, with the emotion and suffering, because without emotion there is no memory. There is a very close connection between memory and emotion and the more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates.

We are not our physical bodies.   We are simply spiritual beings having a physical experience. Here to learn the things that can't be learned in Heaven because the physics of heaven are very different than the physics of the so called "physical" universe.

And what is it that can't be learned in heaven? What it means and how it feels to be separate, what time and space look and feel like, and make memories of what it was like to live in or inhabit a physical body and live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time Universe.

Art

Edited by Artaxerxes, 26 November 2012 - 06:57 PM.


#98    Artaxerxes

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:58 PM

The soul's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and it is holistically imprinted with what it needs to know regardless of who we are, or where we live, or what we believe.

The Soul's lessons are too important to leave up to chance.

Art

Edited by Artaxerxes, 26 November 2012 - 07:03 PM.


#99    Artaxerxes

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:02 PM

The most interesting and best NDE experience that I've read that I believe comes the closest to what happens to our soul when we die is Mark Horton's NDE.

Mark Horton's NDE

My Near Death Experience
Mark A. Horton
I "died" from total kidney, liver, and respiratory shutdown. Coupled with massive internal bleeding and the associated anemia. Since I was already in a coma, I have no idea when my NDE actually occurred. From reading my medical chart and other sup- porting information and anectodal evidence, I presume it was on New Year's Eve, 1992. It was that evening that my kidneys had quit, my liver had ceased functioning, and the doctors had told my parents that they should contact a funeral home since it was doubtful that I would make it through the night and if I did, they would have to put me onto a kidney dialysis machine the next morning; the shock of which would probably kill me anyways. Dur- ing the evening (from what I've read in the chart) I went into full respiratory arrest and was placed on a ventilator. So there I was, kidneys shut down, liver not functioning, fluid building up, getting pneumonia, and a machine breathing for me. I suspect that's when I "left." I have vague, very vague recollections of looking down on a body in a bed with tubes and machines, but I cannot honestly say that it was mine. I was, well, floating is not an adequate description, more like held up, contained, buoyed, sustained in a warm, dry, medium of some sort, suspended without pressure or any feeling of containment, just there. I felt safe, warm, calm, without pain or fogginess at all, com- pletely aware.

Then the "experience" began.
Suddenly dusk became full, blazing daylight, except with a brightness brighter than normally associated with daylight... ev- erything was bright as I was lifted (without any feeling or pres- sure) upwards to a high point (I assume, since I was unaware of standing on anything or for that matter aware of any "body" that I had) I was pure intellect, absorbing information and knowledge through "sensors" or means that I have no concept of. From this vantage point, I had to merely think of a place and time and I was there, experiencing everything about the place and time and people present.

I have always, I don't know why, had a very strong "pull" toward Scotland. I have some Scottish ancestry, but no more so than English, Swedish, and Prussian, but I don't know why I have such a strong affinity for the land, its history, its culture, and the music. (No sound in this world can stir the feelings that the sound of bagpipes arise in me!) Well, one of my first "trips" was to Scotland, on a high cliff overlooking a grey, crashing sea during a violent thunderstorm. I was there! I could feel the wind lashing at me and the driving force of the rain while I could see and hear the crashing of the thunder and the sea. All I had done was have the mearest fleeting thought of the land and I was there! As I've said, I have no idea why I have such a strong tie to that particular piece of space/time.

I next thought of warm sunshine and I was in a place of bright warm light and comfort. I could discern nothing but a comforting brightness around me (such that "me" was... I still had no "body" that I remember, but had the "feeling" that I was an amorphous, glowing pure intellect... all sensors and no tangi- ble gross physical body to drag me down or contain me. It was a truly wonderful feeling? state? being? Words just don't exist to describe this.) This was very pleasant and comforting and went on for microseconds or billions of years, I have no idea since time just wasn't an operative construct and had no meaning or relevance to existence. I literally had the feeling that I was everywhere in the universe simultaneously.

This brightness ceased and was replaced with a view of the earth rapidly receding "below" me. I was still enveloped in a sense of warmth and comfort, but "moving" backwards at an ever- increasing velocity; the view of the earth almost instantly gave way to an overall view of our solar system which as quickly gave way to a cluster of star systems that apparently was in one of the arms of our galaxy. I was still absorbing all of this on so many different levels beyond merely what we think of as seeing as I raced outward. I could still sense the location of our planet even though at this distance that should have been impossible in the normal space/time continuum. My overall feelings were of comfort, wonder, amazement, belonging, a sense of "rightness", and overlaying it all what I can only call an overwhelming love, although that word is woefully inadequate to describe those feel- ings.

Still moving (backwards always for some reason) I suddenly just relaxed completely and allowed "myself" to dissolve (?) open up (?) merge (?) into the "oneness" that surrounded me. The ex- plosion of emotion and (again words are almost useless) over- whelming "love" that I now felt made any previous feelings I had experienced even during this episode, however "long" it had/was/is going on, seem like nothing! I cannot possibly put into words that any human language has that feeling. I was ev- erything, I was nothing. I was everywhere, I was nowhere. I was everywhen, I wasn't. My intellect had expanded to contain every thing, time, place, and even being that was, is, or ever would be! I was unique yet I was the tiniest part of the whole. I know this is sounding like gibberish... it even does to me a times when I read it on paper; but to have been it! Words don't exist to describe the joy and love and warmth. It truly is inde- scribable!

And I was still accellerating outward, absorbing, observing, and becoming more! Entire galaxies became the size of grains of sand. I saw immense galaxies colliding together. I saw "holes" in space that weren't holes at all, but were filled with some- thing I couldn't comprehend even in my "enhanced" state... proto- galaxies perhaps? And there were so many galaxies to see and feel; but still I could sense where our planet was... I say sense because our tiny Milky Way galaxy had vanished; I could "feel" it there, but could no longer "see" it.

And I kept going outward! I began to discern a curvature to the scene before me and realized that the universe was really a large sphere containing all the galaxies. It became more and more apparent as I moved (still backwards) into the "darkspace" beyond the sphere of galaxies. Still, the occasional galaxy whipped by as I continued moving outward. And then I "felt" a large something or presence behind me. I seemed to slow slightly and hesitate and then was through this barrier and looking down at the sphere that contained our universe. It seemed to be at once transparent and slightly opaque as if I were seeing the en- ergy fields that contained it. The image of the electron shell of an atom seems to fit here.

I was still moving outward and could now make out around the shrinking curvature of our universe, other spheres which could only be other universes. These seemed to be arranged in some sort of order, a spherical shell of universes around a core that I could not see. And beyond this shell, another, towards which I was now speeding. The overall impression I'm left with is of something like those little carved "spheres within spheres" of ivory that one used to see in import shops.
I never made it to the next shell. As I was moving outward to the next shell layer of universes, something started pulling at me and I was suddenly racing back forwards, inward toward our universe and then inside it. The other galaxies within our uni- verse were gone and I had one last "sight" of our arm of the Milky Way galaxy and then I was back. Stunned, confused, sad, having a tremendous sense of loss, I guess at the loss of the knowledge and love and "oneness" that I had been.

My NDE was over.
I drifted in and out of a coma for some time after that, I have no idea of how long. During this time I had a mixture of strong dreams, perhaps some halucinations if I understand how halucinations are supposed to be - very vivid, almost concrete dreams in which the "dream-people" have real, solid, bodies and with whom one can hold logical, normal conversations, and I think short "mini-NDEs" in which I was able to experience some small fraction of the overpowering love and "oneness" that I had during my major "trip."

I guess then I started to "adjust" and begin my unconscious attempt at ignoring what had happened to me and trying to "get on with" my life. But still something was missing... that hole was still there and gnawing at my mind. Finally after almost a year I sat not thinking, I guess you could say meditating and letting my mind relax, when everything starting coming back into my con- scious thoughts. I could no longer supress these memories and knew it. So I just let them flow inward, becoming ever more strongly convinced that what I had experienced WAS real, that it wasn't just an halucination or dream, that we are all individuals and "one" at the same time, and that the only thing important ev- er is love. Complete, open, giving, incredibly filling love. That is the only thing that matters. All else is superfluous.

I was changed forever. I simply am. We are all one, we are all "God." Or perhaps "God" is all of us. I have thought long on the biblical phrase "And God made man in His image." I wonder if perhaps this really means that man is created and exists in "God"'s imagination which is then man's reality. I am no bibli- cal scholar and will not debate theologies since those are so very personal, but that possible interpretation of the biblical phrase is interesting for me to contemplate. I do not profess to any specific religion at all; never have, and definitely now nev- er will, for they are all right and all wrong... merely man's at- tempt to quantify, regiment, and control even the spiritual as- pect of the individual. I now know that living to be kind and love each other is the only true "religion" there is; if one must label something "religion." From what I've read and spoken to other NDEers about, this seems to be an almost universal feeling amongst those who've had NDEs. We may describe what we've "seen" in various religious terms depending upon background and pre-NDE beliefs, but the message of universal love and forgiveness is the same.

So that is my experience. The aftereffects are still there and growing every day. To say it has changed me completely is at once obvious and an incredible understatement. I still am inter- ested in computer systems and work with them as a profession, but find myself more interested in how they can truly help people as opposed to just being intellectual "toys" that perform functions and that people pay me money for designing and tuning. I've nev- er been outwardly materialistic in the "yuppie" sense of the word, but had cherished certain possessions and worried about them; now I still cherish the beauty in things, but the posses- sion of a thing is unimportant... I find myself giving many things away to others if they express an interest or desire for them. I'm probably labeled as a "patsy." It doesn't matter. I find myself openly crying over the sadness in the world and in people's lives. I share many of the same feelings that other NDErs have... the total lack of fear of death - it's comforting actually to think of it since it'll be a return to that state that I experienced and can now only briefly make contact with, the overwhelming sense of love for everyone and everything around me, the peaceful calm that I feel, even the sometimes painful em- pathic abilities that now seem to have blossomed within me - if I can somehow relieve another's suffering by taking it from them and into me, I do so gladly.

In summary I suppose the question many would ask is "was it worth dying?"
I would have to answer joyfully, "Yes!"

http://www.mindsprin.../nde/markh.html


#100    Sean93

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:06 PM

Seeker, you come across as someone who has the notion that they are right about what they write. There is no point in anyone having a conversation with people of that type because it ultimately remains futile. Go ahead an believe in Multi-dimensional planes and dreams being more than just dreams, it's your belief and I don't care what you believe, I just wanted a discussion about NDE's but in a efw of your posts on this forum I've seen the phrase 'This is incorrect' when it's all oopen to interpretation and it's all presonal belief and opinion. Not that me saying this will make any difference, it never does so I won't hold out hope.

Call my thinking Fallacious and say I decent 'Critcical thinking skills and Articulate Understanding' all you want, I don't care what people think of me, least not people who come across as though they think they know the whole story.

As for dreams, whether you think they have a deeper meanin or not, that's for you to believe. Maybe I'm just an Astral projector denying my gift :innocent: .

P.S, what does age have to do with it? I'm 19 in a few days, and it's not age that matters so why even mention it?

"Regarding life, the wisest men of all ages have judged it alike: It is worthless."

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

#101    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostSean93, on 26 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Seeker, you come across as someone who has the notion that they are right about what they write. There is no point in anyone having a conversation with people of that type because it ultimately remains futile. Go ahead an believe in Multi-dimensional planes and dreams being more than just dreams, it's your belief and I don't care what you believe, I just wanted a discussion about NDE's but in a efw of your posts on this forum I've seen the phrase 'This is incorrect' when it's all oopen to interpretation and it's all presonal belief and opinion. Not that me saying this will make any difference, it never does so I won't hold out hope.

Call my thinking Fallacious and say I decent 'Critcical thinking skills and Articulate Understanding' all you want, I don't care what people think of me, least not people who come across as though they think they know the whole story.

As for dreams, whether you think they have a deeper meanin or not, that's for you to believe. Maybe I'm just an Astral projector denying my gift :innocent: .

P.S, what does age have to do with it? I'm 19 in a few days, and it's not age that matters so why even mention it?
Sorry you sounded young. Calling people idiots and such is usually a sign of immaturity... I was right. some people are wrong when they make fallacious statements about the origins of religions and other things. These things are not inturpretations they are historical realities.

Now yes the other stuff is quite debatable and open for inturpretation. My style of writing laks passive voice. When I make an argument I make it strong. This does put sensitive people off, but it's a skill I learned in college...it's a habit. No one has the answers to the great mystery sean. All we can do is deduce and engage in philosophy.

Age has a lot to do with it. At 19 you have not had the time to explore these subjects to their full potential or understand the basic use of REAL. Logic. My encouragement would be to expand your horizons rather than spout fallacy all over the place. A university is a good place to start if you are not already there.

By the way I ment descent critical thinking skills, I was complimenting you my friend ;)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#102    Bling

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

What has NDE's got to with this topic??!!  Why can't we stay on topic??!!

Rant over :P


#103    Sean93

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 26 November 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

Sorry you sounded young. Calling people idiots and such is usually a sign of immaturity... I was right. some people are wrong when they make fallacious statements about the origins of religions and other things. These things are not inturpretations they are historical realities.

Now yes the other stuff is quite debatable and open for inturpretation. My style of writing laks passive voice. When I make an argument I make it strong. This does put sensitive people off, but it's a skill I learned in college...it's a habit. No one has the answers to the great mystery sean. All we can do is deduce and engage in philosophy.

Age has a lot to do with it. At 19 you have not had the time to explore these subjects to their full potential or understand the basic use of REAL. Logic. My encouragement would be to expand your horizons rather than spout fallacy all over the place. A university is a good place to start if you are not already there.

By the way I ment descent critical thinking skills, I was complimenting you my friend ;)

I won't let this turn into a debate of who is right and who is wrong, doesn't matter to me that much, just general interest, I can't and don't want to change your ways anyhow, you think what you want to.

By the way, It's spelt Decent, not Descent. Descent means "An action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.", I thought you were being condescending and snide about my thinking but whatever.

I don;t want to prove you wrong, I just want to know what's right but obviously you nor anyone here can know that at the moment, myself included.

"Regarding life, the wisest men of all ages have judged it alike: It is worthless."

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

#104    White Crane Feather

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

View PostSean93, on 26 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:



I won't let this turn into a debate of who is right and who is wrong, doesn't matter to me that much, just general interest, I can't and don't want to change your ways anyhow, you think what you want to.

By the way, It's spelt Decent, not Descent. Descent means "An action of moving downward, dropping, or falling.", I thought you were being condescending and snide about my thinking but whatever.

I don;t want to prove you wrong, I just want to know what's right but obviously you nor anyone here can know that at the moment, myself included.
Well you have discovered my horrible lak of reguard for spelling.

But it seems that you occupy an agnostic position. For most it's the only reasonable and honest position.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#105    White Crane Feather

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  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

View PostBling, on 26 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

What has NDE's got to with this topic??!!  Why can't we stay on topic??!!

Rant over :P
"What happens when you die?"

Id say that is an NDE thread in the makeing.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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