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The Paranormal is it Fake?


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#841    Einsteinium

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 06 September 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Because an outside consciousness can provide abilities and evidences, knowledge etc. which cannot come from within a singular isolated mind no matter how clever and well educated. And one can use access to the cosmic consciousness to travel to places, to "meld" with other consciousnesses, and to learn many things. Evidences and proofs are essential to KNOW something, as opposed to believing it.

One of the greatest fallacies and restrictios facing humanity is the belief that we are individual/discrete beings with individual separate consciousnesses. This is demonstrably untrue as a hard and fast rule. Mind and body  (from my experience)we are ALL a part of a much bigger entity and consiousness. (the other alernative is tha ti am unique or special and I have NEVER believed that. Human atributes can vary a lot (for expample i am slightly colour blind and tone deaf) but they are also held in common across humanity as part of our genetic and evolutionary makeup..

Are you sure you just have not been watching too much Star Trek? (Mind "meld", borg like interconnected super-consciousness) :P

You give yourself away when you say "from my experience" what you seem to not understand is that other people's experience directly and completely contradicts your own experience. And so therefore by your own logic that we can "know" things from our experience for certain, both your experiences, and their experiences, are therefore both correct. Which means that there exists simultaneously an outside consciousness that we are all a part of, and also that we are all separate discrete beings with separate and unique consciousness. That is what YOUR logic MUST conclude.

Unless you admit that some people are unable to KNOW things for certain, but then if you admit that, you also admit that there is no possible way for you to know if you are one of these people. This would therefore be your belief, that you are one who KNOWS, and that the others are ones who DO NOT KNOW. Because you see, other people have just as much 'evidence' from experience that they are separate discreet beings, as you have of being part of something bigger. Therefore either you are wrong, they are wrong, or in my opinion, you both are wrong. In which case, humans do not really KNOW all that much, and the very act of thinking you KNOW something for certain, is one of the greatest fallacies and restrictions facing humanity. To the extreme, Hitler thought he KNEW that the so called "Aryan race" was the supreme race and therefore should rule the world.

Keep an open mind. That is my philosophy :)

Edited by Einsteinium, 06 September 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#842    fullywired

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 06 September 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Absolutely. I make a small living from the lottery, and a bigger one from the pokies. For example following the advice of the cosmic consciousness. i invested a dollar change on the pokies last night and won $840 in one spin. In the last month I have made about $100 from the lottery, winning on average $25 per week ..


Please send me your Mojo

  fullywired :tu:

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#843    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:56 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 September 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

If what you say is true (and of course I suspect either pious fraud or self-delusion), you are cheating.
Why bother lying?
And "cheating" on the pokies or state lotto? I only wish. There are other posiblities, called pure dumb luck or coincidence, but that doesn't explain the concious external instructions i get on what numbers or machines to play, in order to win. I made a profit of $1300  on the weekend,  starting with a one dollar bet, and used it to pay our water and  electricity bills.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#844    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:01 PM

View Postfullywired, on 06 September 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Please send me your Mojo

  fullywired :tu:
In my opinion (and it is only that) based on my own experiences, any human can do this.  In the east it is known as extending ones chi or awareness. For me it is opening up my mind to the universe around me (especially but not inclusively the local environment) and then consciously applying, what I learn at a subconscious level. A rationalist might suggest possiblities, such as i subconsciously note the number of "cups" left alongside a pokie machine and realise that it has been played a lot, hence it MIGHT have a higher chance of paying out.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#845    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:10 PM

View PostEinsteinium, on 06 September 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Are you sure you just have not been watching too much Star Trek? (Mind "meld", borg like interconnected super-consciousness) :P

You give yourself away when you say "from my experience" what you seem to not understand is that other people's experience directly and completely contradicts your own experience. And so therefore by your own logic that we can "know" things from our experience for certain, both your experiences, and their experiences, are therefore both correct. Which means that there exists simultaneously an outside consciousness that we are all a part of, and also that we are all separate discrete beings with separate and unique consciousness. That is what YOUR logic MUST conclude.

Unless you admit that some people are unable to KNOW things for certain, but then if you admit that, you also admit that there is no possible way for you to know if you are one of these people. This would therefore be your belief, that you are one who KNOWS, and that the others are ones who DO NOT KNOW. Because you see, other people have just as much 'evidence' from experience that they are separate discreet beings, as you have of being part of something bigger. Therefore either you are wrong, they are wrong, or in my opinion, you both are wrong. In which case, humans do not really KNOW all that much, and the very act of thinking you KNOW something for certain, is one of the greatest fallacies and restrictions facing humanity. To the extreme, Hitler thought he KNEW that the so called "Aryan race" was the supreme race and therefore should rule the world.

Keep an open mind. That is my philosophy :)
One can only make logical extrapolations based on ones own evidences and experiences. Those of others can be used for comparison and evaluation but do not apply to an individual.
I use the term "mind meld" becaus e most people would recognise this term. It is a form of hive consciousness also where an individual mind cn both access the uiversal mind but also use the universal mind to link to any other conscious being in the universe. But i first met the cosmic consciousness as a young lad in the late 1950s, long befre star trek was written or thought of.  My point is that,because i am totally a normal human being in mind and body, then anything i am capable of doing, so can most other humans (there may be some exceptions.  For example while "normal" i cant see some colours very well or distinguish tones accurately while others can)

You are correc,t in that we have an individual mind and body BUT also are part of a greater mind and body, just as individual neurons are part of a larger human brain.

Ps where do you think writers GET ideas like the  borg super consciousness or mind melding, from?

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#846    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:13 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 10 September 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

Why bother lying?
And "cheating" on the pokies or state lotto? I only wish. There are other posiblities, called pure dumb luck or coincidence, but that doesn't explain the concious external instructions i get on what numbers or machines to play, in order to win. I made a profit of $1300  on the weekend,  starting with a one dollar bet, and used it to pay our water and  electricity bills.
It called pious fraud and we see a lot of it around.  You make questionable personal claims to support an unbelievable assertion.  It is not a very credible thing to do, and tends to get you ignored.


#847    Mr Walker

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 September 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

I think you are just too dense to understand, because your responses seem utterly
That just amazes me at how dense you are.  I don't think you even try to understand what others are saying to you.

Descartes claimed we could only KNOW that we existed and that all else was belief.

I do not accept that as a scientific reality or probability . When you say we cannot KNOW anything, you are factually incorrect. We can know almost anything of which we have personal experience.The rest we have to chose to accepet or reject via belief or trust; in science, books, experts, parents etc. If i don t understand what you are saying perhaps we are on differnt wavelenghts. i dont understand how you can claim that i cannot KNOW my wife exists. Take her age however I have her virth certificate but i have to trust its veracity to believe how old she is But i KNOW how old I am and how old my neices nephesws etc are becaus ei was born before them .

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#848    Frank Merton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:22 PM

Yea you are much smarter than Descartes.


#849    Mr Walker

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 12:31 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 September 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Yea you are much smarter than Descartes.
We all stand on the shoulders of giants .If i wasn't more knowledgeable /smarter than any man from 400 years ago, then there would be something very wrong.

Modern sciences, access to computers, and  the abilty to read very quickly all  give me knowledge and understandings which were simply not available to descartes. I AM very intelligent  in quantifiable ways, but it is not this that enables me to understand that descartes was wrong. It is a modern understanding of sciences, from evolutionary biology to neuro science.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#850    Einsteinium

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 10 September 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

One can only make logical extrapolations based on ones own evidences and experiences. Those of others can be used for comparison and evaluation but do not apply to an individual.
I use the term "mind meld" becaus e most people would recognise this term. It is a form of hive consciousness also where an individual mind cn both access the uiversal mind but also use the universal mind to link to any other conscious being in the universe. But i first met the cosmic consciousness as a young lad in the late 1950s, long befre star trek was written or thought of.  My point is that,because i am totally a normal human being in mind and body, then anything i am capable of doing, so can most other humans (there may be some exceptions.  For example while "normal" i cant see some colours very well or distinguish tones accurately while others can)

You are correc,t in that we have an individual mind and body BUT also are part of a greater mind and body, just as individual neurons are part of a larger human brain.

Ps where do you think writers GET ideas like the  borg super consciousness or mind melding, from?

But other people have entirely different 'evidences and experiences' than you do. Therefore you are stating that multiple different realities exist simultaneously. And each person experiences their own reality, independent of your reality. That simply must be the logical conclusion you have to draw. Because your experience equals true reality TO YOU, and another persons experience equals their own true reality, which in cases directly contradicts your experience.

So tell me, do you accept what I just said as being logically true, based on what you have been saying?

Define what a normal human being is to you, because in my mind you are not a normal human being :P

Subjective experience does not equal true reality. If this was true then every schizophrenic the world over is experiencing a true reality and not a reality the product of a malfunctioning brain. If this was true then every acid or mushroom tripper really is experiencing a real truthful reality, not simple hallucinations. The fact of the matter is that subjective experience is extremely fallible, totally unreliable, and is a product of the brain's processing of sensory inputs which is reliant on objective scientific known facts of chemistry and biology.

All I am saying, and have been saying, is that you cannot extrapolate subjective conscious experience into an objective truth. If this was possible, then people never would have though that the earth was the center of the universe, people would have understood that bacteria and viruses caused disease and not demons. But people were unable to realize these objective truths through subjective cosmic consciousness experiences. 'Cosmic consciousness' is not a new experience, it has been experienced by humans since recorded history, and probably much earlier. If objective truth's could be discerned through this alone, then people would not need the objective scientific method to understand reality. All they would need to do is tap into this cosmic consciousness. If what you say is true, then why are you not using your ability to tap into cosmic consciousness to help solve big world problems? Why are you using it selfishly to profit from the lottery? If what you say is true, then you sir are squandering a gift of immense proportions for your own selfish needs and gains. And that sir, is shameful.

Edited by Einsteinium, 11 September 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#851    Mikko-kun

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:39 PM

There can be a parallel explanation to everything, even if we couldn't come up with it or dont get why it's viable even if it is. Or if some of us have bits of distortion in their "eyes". Most of all, when you view anything from a different angle, you see different things. Look at another human being from the side, when their face is in 90 degree different direction than yours. You see only one eye, half the mouth and a human who has only one arm and leg if they stand straight. But that's not true, right? And if you look at a human from behind they have no face. And from front no butt. And if hair covers their ears, they have no ears. But is anything you see false? No, it's just a part of the bigger picture.

I've been born again 31,8,2014 approximately 21:35 local time. A moment free of clutter in the mind, emancipating myself like an escapist, allowing myself to breathe life in a stronger, less physical level... though it does resonate to physical world. It's the oomph.

#852    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostEinsteinium, on 11 September 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

But other people have entirely different 'evidences and experiences' than you do. Therefore you are stating that multiple different realities exist simultaneously. And each person experiences their own reality, independent of your reality. That simply must be the logical conclusion you have to draw. Because your experience equals true reality TO YOU, and another persons experience equals their own true reality, which in cases directly contradicts your experience.

So tell me, do you accept what I just said as being logically true, based on what you have been saying?

Define what a normal human being is to you, because in my mind you are not a normal human being :P

Subjective experience does not equal true reality. If this was true then every schizophrenic the world over is experiencing a true reality and not a reality the product of a malfunctioning brain. If this was true then every acid or mushroom tripper really is experiencing a real truthful reality, not simple hallucinations. The fact of the matter is that subjective experience is extremely fallible, totally unreliable, and is a product of the brain's processing of sensory inputs which is reliant on objective scientific known facts of chemistry and biology.

All I am saying, and have been saying, is that you cannot extrapolate subjective conscious experience into an objective truth. If this was possible, then people never would have though that the earth was the center of the universe, people would have understood that bacteria and viruses caused disease and not demons. But people were unable to realize these objective truths through subjective cosmic consciousness experiences. 'Cosmic consciousness' is not a new experience, it has been experienced by humans since recorded history, and probably much earlier. If objective truth's could be discerned through this alone, then people would not need the objective scientific method to understand reality. All they would need to do is tap into this cosmic consciousness. If what you say is true, then why are you not using your ability to tap into cosmic consciousness to help solve big world problems? Why are you using it selfishly to profit from the lottery? If what you say is true, then you sir are squandering a gift of immense proportions for your own selfish needs and gains. And that sir, is shameful.


Everyone has entirely differnt SUBJECTIVE experinces to me But most people have many  physicla experiences in common, from eating to breathing.

This is a complex issue, but at heart quite simple For every human, life is divided into the phsical/ objective and cognitive/subjective experince. This is ONLY true for humans because w are the only species with a language based on self aware consciousness which is capapble to recognise categorise excange and compre symbolic constcuts beliefs etc.


So, when i see an elephant i can bring a huge range of objective data /knolwedge, plus much subjective mental costruction, feeling, instinctive reaction, emotionalresponse  to my understanding and analtysis of the elephant.

But to compound this even further i am capable of recognising my emotional instinctive reactions and their causes and thus negating modifing or atering them. I can chose not to fear an elpeaht as a conscious act of will even if my instinctive reation is one of fear. Or i can chose to see a lovable pet dog as something to fear or be jealous of.

Objective reality is that which exists as an indepnedent objective  quantity eg a tree Subjective reality is how we decide to view a tree.

Mentally disfunctional people, including those with dementia or schitzo phrenia actually do not see that which is there at times and at times see that which does not exist This forces them to confabulate or rrationalise reasons for wah they can see and are sure must be true.

This is not true for a normal functioning human being We might make some errors based on ignorance, a lack of care in observaton, or on other factors such as historical culturla understandings but we see wha texists and we intepret that which exists using ogic evidence etc. and so we do not walk off clifs or through walls.

the reality of cosmic consciousness mustbe tested by the same evidences an logic and withthe same rigour as any other knolwde/reality

And ps I do not waste my gifts. They were given to me for a reason. In my life my wife and i have donated over a million dollars to people organisations and charities around the world including both human animal and environmental) we have saved thousands of lives and made many more more safe bearable and comfortable. We provide jobs food sanitation education etc  to some of the most needy peopleon the planet It is basically because i am blessed with so much (and because i live in a country like austrlaia where the tax system allows me to give two or three times for each dollar i earn) that i can give so much Eg if give  an organisation 1000 dollars, at my tax rate I get back about  500 dollars as a tax deduction. I give that to a charity and i get back 250, which i give again. Multiply that by 20000 dollars or so a year and you can do a lot.

God "tops up my riches" because he can more easily do so in a country like australia  (wealth brings opportunity for greater wealth) and then I can do more for women children etc around the world  My wife and i have never been on a holiday for 30 years, except when we lost everything we owned in a bush fire, and we buy all my clothes from second hand shops. A full outfit costs me about $10-15 and will last me four or five years. We live a rich and lucky life but it is in the giving of self that we become human My wife is appraising some beautiful antique jewellery left and given to her, so that she can sell it and give the proceeds to a relief agency for kids in somalia. In our view; gold (even beautiful and well crafted pieces) is  nothing, compared with being able to feed a hundred children or so for a year

I dont blame your cynicism, with me talking about lottery wins etc. But god provides for a purpose. Which could be WHY we are so "rich" in life. No matter how much we give away, more is given to us, so it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of renewal and hope.

Edited by Mr Walker, 15 September 2013 - 07:06 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#853    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 10 September 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

It called pious fraud and we see a lot of it around.  You make questionable personal claims to support an unbelievable assertion.  It is not a very credible thing to do, and tends to get you ignored.

LOL You said it. You find my claims unbelievable. In consequence you MUST find rational reasons to explain why i would make them.  EG fraud delusion   etc  Consider the alternative. i write the simple truth.  I am an honest man, and not even a deluded one. I do not require reasons to tell the truth. No one does. It is simply life's narrative.

And call me naive, but i do not make judgement calls on other peole's claims either, because there is no way I can  test them.

I know some peole lie and i understand the many reasons why some people find a need to. I was taught from birth always to tell the truth and then let the outcomes fall as the may. Of course my understanding of "the truth" is incopmlete and subjective but hat is a part of the huma condition we can only do our best.

" My truth" has contextual integrity, is backed by evidences and logic, and most of all, WORKS very effectively in the mundane world.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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