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Proselytizing; Why Do It?


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#46    JMPD1

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:57 PM

Ever stop to think why god allows SOME of his worshippers to "meet" him, but not others?
I have known christians who prayed every day, followed the teachings of their god all their life, and never once did they actually feel the presence of god as some claim to.

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#47    Cadetak

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:59 PM

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Do you know my definition of Christian? I define a Christian as someone who loves God, follows God, communicates regularly with God, trusts in God, experiences God, and lives God's teachings. Now, I don't know about you, but once you have met God, it's kind of hard to un-meet him and think he doesn't exist without deluding yourself into denial of his existence. If you TRULY knew God, than you would never be able to stop knowing he's there because then you would be denying knowledge of reality.


I've never met God...I tried to but it didn't happen.

This connection with God isn't exclusive to christianity....the same 'connection' has bin experienced by people of different religions and with different gods.

Also, just because one may believe God exists doesn't mean they will worship him.





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#48    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:00 PM

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Ever stop to think why god allows SOME of his worshippers to "meet" him, but not others?
I have known christians who prayed every day, followed the teachings of their god all their life, and never once did they actually feel the presence of god as some claim to.

But you see, what are they expecting? And how are they expecting to get it? When they pray how do they pray, what do they pray for, to whom do they pray to? What teachings did they follow? How did they follow them? Were they sincere? Was it a heartfelt thing? Do they feel that God has let them down, or that they have moved on to their own truth? Before I was a Christian, I prayed everyday as well, I thought I was a Christian too, and then I became one, and realized that I wasn't.


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I've never met God...I tried to but it didn't happen.

This connection with God isn't exclusive to christianity....the same 'connection' has bin experienced by people of different religions and with different gods.

Also, just because one may believe God exists doesn't mean they will worship him.

How did you go about trying? I have no doubt that people of other faiths experience something. Is that something my God? Not necessarily. BM for example, I do not think that BM and I serve the same God. Is she experiencing something? Possibly, but whatever she is experiencing isn't HaShem.

Edited by Knight of Zion (COI), 03 August 2007 - 03:03 PM.


#49    Cadetak

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:08 PM

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But you see, what are they expecting? And how are they expecting to get it? When they pray how do they pray, what do they pray for, to whom do they pray to? What teachings did they follow? How did they follow them? Were they sincere? Was it a heartfelt thing? Do they feel that God has let them down, or that they have moved on to their own truth? Before I was a Christian, I prayed everyday as well, I thought I was a Christian too, and then I became one, and realized that I wasn't.


Please do tell us how you became a 'real' christian.

Once upon a time I searched for God for all the reasons and in all the ways, studied the various mythologies, practiced the core teachings, and participated in the rituals. What shall I do to meet the big man?

You spoke of delusion so how would one ever know what their experiencing is genuine or not?

Edited by Cadetak47, 03 August 2007 - 03:10 PM.

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#50    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:23 PM

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Please do tell us how you became a 'real' christian.

Once upon a time I searched for God for all the reasons and in all the ways, studied the various mythologies, practiced the core teachings, and participated in the rituals. What shall I do to meet the big man?

You spoke of delusion so how would one ever know what their experiencing is genuine or not?

It's the kind of thing where you know when you know. Like, there's when you think you know, but once you actually know, than you know. If I were to tell you based solely on my experience, than I would say to sincerely cry out to God, from the bottom of your heart and soul. That's why I did anyway. If someone asked "How do I experience God?" I would tell them to seek God. But before seeking you must evaluate. Because your own condition and sincerity will effect the results of your search. Do you believe in God when you seek him? If you don't, how can you expect to find what you don't believe in? If you found and experienced God would you follow him, love him, uphold his name, and live his teachings? When seeking you must also expect challenges. If you get to your first obstacle in the journey to find God, and after that you are no longer willing to search than you will never find God. And this is why I believe that each person who seeks God MUST believe in him as reality. Because there are things you will experience and go through that you will not be able to logically understand. When searching for God you have to be focused on your goal (finding God) and not detering from that goal. If you don't believe in God, than it's not gonna happen.


#51    Cadetak

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:29 PM

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It's the kind of thing where you know when you know. Like, there's when you think you know, but once you actually know, than you know. If I were to tell you based solely on my experience, than I would say to sincerely cry out to God, from the bottom of your heart and soul. That's why I did anyway. If someone asked "How do I experience God?" I would tell them to seek God. But before seeking you must evaluate. Because your own condition and sincerity will effect the results of your search. Do you believe in God when you seek him? If you don't, how can you expect to find what you don't believe in? If you found and experienced God would you follow him, love him, uphold his name, and live his teachings? When seeking you must also expect challenges. If you get to your first obstacle in the journey to find God, and after that you are no longer willing to search than you will never find God. And this is why I believe that each person who seeks God MUST believe in him as reality. Because there are things you will experience and go through that you will not be able to logically understand. When searching for God you have to be focused on your goal (finding God) and not detering from that goal. If you don't believe in God, than it's not gonna happen.


By your reasoning I couldn't find God now...but by your reasoning I should have found when I was a christian.

As I am now I cannot worship God if he is real or not.

Edited by Cadetak47, 03 August 2007 - 03:31 PM.

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#52    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:32 PM

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By your reasoning I couldn't find God now...but by your reasoning I should have found when I was a christian.

As I am now I cannot worship God if he is real or not.

So you truly believed in God? You absolutely believed in him? When you saught after him, you didn't find, but how long did you search, how did you search? What did your search consist of? When obstacles or things that were "unbelievable came along, did you quit? What caused you to stop searching?


#53    EmpressV

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:39 PM

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Do you know my definition of Christian? I define a Christian as someone who loves God, follows God, communicates regularly with God, trusts in God, experiences God, and lives God's teachings. Now, I don't know about you, but once you have met God, it's kind of hard to un-meet him and think he doesn't exist without deluding yourself into denial of his existence. If you TRULY knew God, than you would never be able to stop knowing he's there because then you would be denying knowledge of reality.

So in other words you are taking christ out of christianity. The christianity I knew came from worshipping christ/jesus. What kind of christian doesn't worship christ/jesus. They would most likely practice judeaism or islamic.

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#54    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 03:54 PM

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So in other words you are taking christ out of christianity. The christianity I knew came from worshipping christ/jesus. What kind of christian doesn't worship christ/jesus. They would most likely practice judeaism or islamic.

I haven't take Christ out. In my opinion Christ and the Father are both just one God. By seeking God you are seeking Christ. By seeking Christ you are seeking God. "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" Christ and God are the same, there's no difference. If one searches for HaShem, one will find him. If one searches for Christ one will still find HaShem because Christ and HaShem are the same.


#55    JMPD1

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:00 PM

But I guess that only applies if you are looking the "right" way, hmmmm?



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#56    EmpressV

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:02 PM

I guess I don't get it. Have you come up with your own kind of xianity? I know some people who worship the teachings of jesus but don't acknowledge that he was the son of a god. As a matter of fact they don't believe in gods. They still call themselves xians because they follow christ/jesus. I guess there are all kinds of worshipers in the world and they don't necessarily fit into your vision of what a xian should be. Yet they are.

You should get that narcasism thingy checked. It could lead to who knows what wink2.gif

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#57    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:18 PM

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I guess I don't get it. Have you come up with your own kind of xianity? I know some people who worship the teachings of jesus but don't acknowledge that he was the son of a god. As a matter of fact they don't believe in gods. They still call themselves xians because they follow christ/jesus. I guess there are all kinds of worshipers in the world and they don't necessarily fit into your vision of what a xian should be. Yet they are.

You should get that narcasism thingy checked. It could lead to who knows what wink2.gif

I haven't come up with my own kind of Christianity, I am merely following Christ's teachings as they are meant to be followed. Many people do not realize that Christ is/was a very big supporter of individuality, not only that but there isn't a rigid and set requirement or mind set necessary to be a Christian. Christ spoke that in order to be saved one must be born again. When Nicodemus asked about this Jesus said one must be born of the Spirit. Jesus sent the Spirit after his death. During his life Jesus spoke that the only way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to follow his teachings (develop a relationship with the Father). While here Jesus gave only two commands "Love God and Love others." The only set similarity between Christians is that we all have the Spirit of God, and we all know God personally. If you meet someone who says they don't know God personally, than they are not Christian. Christ didn't come to promote himself, he came to promote his Father (HaShem). Christ came and taught that a relationship with him/HaShem is necessary to enter the Kingdom and he taught that the only way to achieve this relationship with God is through him.


#58    EmpressV

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:40 PM

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I haven't come up with my own kind of Christianity, I am merely following Christ's teachings as they are meant to be followed. Many people do not realize that Christ is/was a very big supporter of individuality, not only that but there isn't a rigid and set requirement or mind set necessary to be a Christian. Christ spoke that in order to be saved one must be born again. When Nicodemus asked about this Jesus said one must be born of the Spirit. Jesus sent the Spirit after his death. During his life Jesus spoke that the only way to enter the Kingdom of Heaven is to follow his teachings (develop a relationship with the Father). While here Jesus gave only two commands "Love God and Love others." The only set similarity between Christians is that we all have the Spirit of God, and we all know God personally. If you meet someone who says they don't know God personally, than they are not Christian. Christ didn't come to promote himself, he came to promote his Father (HaShem). Christ came and taught that a relationship with him/HaShem is necessary to enter the Kingdom and he taught that the only way to achieve this relationship with God is through him.

So let me get this right. My mother in law and her mother were 2 of the most devout xians I've ever met but according to your description they weren't xian. Somehow I don't think they would approve of your version.

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Many people do not realize that Christ is/was a very big supporter of individuality
Again you need to practice what you are preaching in order to be taken seriously

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#59    randym23

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:51 PM

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It was an analogy.



an analogy that presumes that non-christian beliefs are somehow less than or just plain wrong.
I could just as easily say the religion is like a virus trying to spread itself overwriting others
"dna" with its own to propagate itself selfishly.

besides trying to convert people is a negation of free will. Its an act of spiritual rape that says
"you're not enough of a person for your will to matter".
and negating free will means that people can't CHOOSE to do "evil"
if people can't choose to do evil, then it's God committing evil.

and if everyone so darned sure of punishment and god's wisdom in the afterlife why are they
so eager to punish them in this one. hmmmmmmmmm.

in short if it's MY business whether i believe or not. Trying to convert someone demonstrates
a profound level of disrespect for another person's sovereignty.



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#60    TheKnight

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 04:54 PM

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So let me get this right. My mother in law and her mother were 2 of the most devout xians I've ever met but according to your description they weren't xian. Somehow I don't think they would approve of your version.

Most Christians would disapprove of my "version" of Christianity. But most "Christians" also believe the Bible is the "infallible inerrant word of God". Most of them believe God is a trinity, most of them believe that heaven is a place where our materialism will be indulged, most of them believe that Satan is the enemy of God, most of them believe a lot of things that aren't necessarily true. Devout is a term applied to the severely religious, it's applied to people who are very very wrapped up in the rituals that their religion tells them that they need. Devout is nothing of substance and devotion to meaningless rituals means nothing to God.

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Again you need to practice what you are preaching in order to be taken seriously

Who says I don't? I am a very very big supporter of individuality myself. I dislike those who seek to conform people to all be similar. I love diversity and I hate assimilationism.

Edited by Knight of Zion (COI), 03 August 2007 - 04:54 PM.





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