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The Paranormal is it Fake?


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#601    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 16 July 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

I get the impression that lots of people think they are "special" in some way.  Often they are lying, but its a special sort of lie that on one level the person knows is not true but on another level the person believes.  For a long time I didn't believe this phenomenon exists, which I think made me somewhat more tolerant of this sort of claim, but a few cases of serious questioning until inconsistencies and other clues came out has revealed it.

It applies to experiences, to faith, to observed phenomena,  and so on, and the thing is there is no answer to such a claim short of mental imbalance or lying, and the person seems reasonably stable.

When it comes to ourselves, we are almost all downright fools.
Speak for yourself :devil:

Edited by Mr Walker, 18 July 2013 - 01:11 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#602    Blood_Sacrifice

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:35 PM

Forget proving a negative, the very basic definition of paranormal is that it doesn't have any material/testable evidence behind its phenomena -- if it did have any evidence (even a tiny bit) it would, by its very definition, cease being a paranormal event.

So looking for evidences of the paranormal is a paradox. If it's a paranormal event, it has no testable evidence. If it has testable evidence, it is not paranormal. And since 'proving the paranormal' is an oxymoron, disproving that the paranormal doesn't exist is well, a no-brainer.

End of.

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#603    scowl

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:40 PM

View PostBlood_Sacrifice, on 18 July 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Forget proving a negative, the very basic definition of paranormal is that it doesn't have any material/testable evidence behind its phenomena -- if it did have any evidence (even a tiny bit) it would, by its very definition, cease being a paranormal event.


This has been explained to the OP at least a dozen times in this thread. His response has been that we are wrong because "someone" has claimed to have "proved" that the paranormal doesn't exist.

When we ask for more information about this, we get sent to stuff he either misread, misinterpreted or doesn't completely understand.

The OP doesn't understand why the Scientific Method requires experiments with falsifiable conclusions so don't bother explaining how science works.


#604    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:50 PM

So we are all fools.


#605    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 18 July 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Speak for yourself :devil:
I might have expected as much from you.


#606    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 12:06 AM

What keeps the moon in orbit?  Now to most of us that is paranormal, and especially to a chap like Einstein.


#607    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:06 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 July 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

I might have expected as much from you.

Well i put the smilie in for a purpose, but seriously, not all humans are self deluded or even capable of delusion. The human mind can understand itself and also its external environments it can integrate efficiently and effectively betwee body mind and environment. It can know and understand its nature and its drivers, and it can operate logically and rationally quite separate from its evolved nature.

  I have studied formally and informally many disciplines. And in my case you are wrong (and so I must assume you are wrong for humanity in general)

I was actually taught to think both objectively and subjectively, to learn and understand the usages of language and communication and to undestand people both as individuals and as a social unit.

Intelligence and experience allow us much, but education, discipline, training and  practice, allow much more.
We learn how to perceive  more accurately and how to understand  more logically ,as we become more skilled and practiced.

You are speaking from your own experience and hence constructed world view. Mine is very different and so i know that while you are right in part, you are wrong in part. YOu are speaking for yourself and hence for others like you. I am speaking for myself and others like me. You CANNOT logically or correctly speak for me, or interpret my life (or anyone else's) through your own..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#608    alibongo

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 11:50 AM

Well, have we come to a conclusion yet?


#609    Mikko-kun

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 18 July 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

So we are all fools.

Compared to who?

I'll be gone.

#610    alibongo

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:16 AM

I was just looking through you tube , and  saw a clip where Richard Dawkins was challenged by a Muslim scholar to prove than Mohamed did not ascend to heaven on a winged horse. Of course, poor  Professor Dawkins was left with egg on his face, as he could not disprove this. Also, in another clip, he could not disprove that Jesus had turned water into wine. In both clips, he was challenged to disprove these tenets of faith, but he could not ,conclusively. So, obviously, both religions being  exclusive, are exclusively correct, and both are the only true religion, so we are left with the conclusion that that which cannot be disproved must be true, however illogical, mutually exclusive, or nonsensical. Following this,it is a small step accepting the paranormal or indeed an other nonsense is worthy of study.

Edited by alibongo, 24 July 2013 - 02:20 AM.


#611    Frank Merton

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 02:31 AM

By definition the paranormal cannot exist.  If something is real it is real.  If it is fiction it is fiction.  There is no in-between state.

The Muslim asking for proof about Mohamed ascending and so forth is of course committing gross heresy.


#612    scowl

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 05:51 PM

View Postalibongo, on 24 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I was just looking through you tube , and  saw a clip where Richard Dawkins was challenged by a Muslim scholar to prove than Mohamed did not ascend to heaven on a winged horse. Of course, poor  Professor Dawkins was left with egg on his face, as he could not disprove this. Also, in another clip, he could not disprove that Jesus had turned water into wine. In both clips, he was challenged to disprove these tenets of faith, but he could not ,conclusively. So, obviously, both religions being  exclusive, are exclusively correct, and both are the only true religion, so we are left with the conclusion that that which cannot be disproved must be true, however illogical, mutually exclusive, or nonsensical. Following this,it is a small step accepting the paranormal or indeed an other nonsense is worthy of study.

I thought Muslims do believe in Jesus and this would not contradict Islam being the "one true religion".


#613    Mikko-kun

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 24 July 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

By definition the paranormal cannot exist.  If something is real it is real.  If it is fiction it is fiction.  There is no in-between state.

The Muslim asking for proof about Mohamed ascending and so forth is of course committing gross heresy.

What if there's partial existence? Or temporary existence which leaves mere residue which we may either not note or which we may confuse to something else? An in-between between fact and fiction? I'm pretty sure there's such a state in our minds at least, but in the physical world though brain is a physical thing too. If there's a particle which partially exist and partially doesn't? A maybe-particle?

I'll be gone.

#614    kannin

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:04 PM

BAM OCTOPUS IN THE FACE! I AM THE PARANORMAL SHIZZAH!

happiness can be found in the darkest of times, only if one remembers to turn on the light

#615    fullywired

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:17 PM

View Postalibongo, on 24 July 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

I was just looking through you tube , and  saw a clip where Richard Dawkins was challenged by a Muslim scholar to prove than Mohamed did not ascend to heaven on a winged horse. Of course, poor  Professor Dawkins was left with egg on his face, as he could not disprove this. Also, in another clip, he could not disprove that Jesus had turned water into wine. In both clips, he was challenged to disprove these tenets of faith, but he could not ,conclusively. So, obviously, both religions being  exclusive, are exclusively correct, and both are the only true religion, so we are left with the conclusion that that which cannot be disproved must be true, however illogical, mutually exclusive, or nonsensical. Following this,it is a small step accepting the paranormal or indeed an other nonsense is worthy of study.

It was not Richard Dawkins job to prove anything ,We are back to the old adage "extraordinary  claims need extraordinary evidence " It was the Muslim scholar making the claims and it is he who should provide the evidence

fullywired

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