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Egypt 21 Sentenced to Death for Football Riot

egypt football riot

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#16    Order66

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:07 AM



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#17    libstaK

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:10 AM

View PostOrder66, on 27 January 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:


I can't watch that in my country but the title has me wondering "We came, we saw, he died Gaddaffi" has me wondering what it has to do with this topic?

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#18    Order66

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

I was just commenting on how our Secretary of State has helped overthrow Qaddafi's regime to usher in a new era of peace and love.

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#19    joc

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:00 AM

I'll just step in here and say that if President Barack Hussien Obama had never uttered the words Mabarak has to go...none of this would have ever happened!   Moreover, I will just step up and ask this question while I'm here:  What the hell are we doing selling them F-16s and Tanks???

mmm, mmm, mmm...Barack Hussein Obama...mmm, mmm, mmm...fearless leader of the Left!  Way to go dude!

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#20    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:01 AM

View Postjoc, on 27 January 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

I'll just step in here and say that if President Barack Hussien Obama had never uttered the words Mabarak has to go...none of this would have ever happened!   Moreover, I will just step up and ask this question while I'm here:  What the hell are we doing selling them F-16s and Tanks???

mmm, mmm, mmm...Barack Hussein Obama...mmm, mmm, mmm...fearless leader of the Left!  Way to go dude!

It was not these words which did Egypt in, but rather the other words said by the US ambassador to SCAF hours before Mursi was declared president, as attested by Mahmoud Hussein, secretary-general of the Muslim Brotherhood in an interview:  

"The US ambassador called SCAF hours before Morsi was declared president, something that triggered controversy.
The US wants to protect its interests. The US was of the view that if the deposed regime came to power once again through forgery a second revolution would break out. Its intercession was not out of bias to Mohamed Morsi but for the election results to be declared without forgery. SCAF and the Elections Committee had knowledge that Morsi was ahead. In this case America stood by legitimacy to avoid a revolution that may turn the country against it."
http://english.ahram...ypts-undem.aspx

It is no secret that members of MB met US officials at least 14 times during the revolution. It is widely believed that the results of the presidential elections were 'originally' in favor of Shafik yet after an unexplained delay it was Mursi who was declared winner. It is also noteworthy that most of Mursi's disasterous grab for power decisions were preceded by meetings with Mrs. Clinton.

For a while it seemed that the Obama administration was paying heed to the Egyptian people's aspiration for freedom, democracy, and social justice in January 2011 but then they went ahead to aid and support a much worse version of Mubarak, thus earning the immense gratitude of Egyptians!  

Don't worry about the F-16s and tanks, the army is a state within a state, unless the MB succeeds in infilterating it.

Edited by meryt-tetisheri, 27 January 2013 - 03:01 AM.


#21    joc

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:12 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 27 January 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

It was not these words which did Egypt in, but rather the other words said by the US ambassador to SCAF hours before Mursi was declared president, as attested by Mahmoud Hussein, secretary-general of the Muslim Brotherhood in an interview:  

"The US ambassador called SCAF hours before Morsi was declared president, something that triggered controversy.
The US wants to protect its interests. The US was of the view that if the deposed regime came to power once again through forgery a second revolution would break out. Its intercession was not out of bias to Mohamed Morsi but for the election results to be declared without forgery. SCAF and the Elections Committee had knowledge that Morsi was ahead. In this case America stood by legitimacy to avoid a revolution that may turn the country against it."
http://english.ahram...ypts-undem.aspx

It is no secret that members of MB met US officials at least 14 times during the revolution. It is widely believed that the results of the presidential elections were 'originally' in favor of Shafik yet after an unexplained delay it was Mursi who was declared winner. It is also noteworthy that most of Mursi's disasterous grab for power decisions were preceded by meetings with Mrs. Clinton.

For a while it seemed that the Obama administration was paying heed to the Egyptian people's aspiration for freedom, democracy, and social justice in January 2011 but then they went ahead to aid and support a much worse version of Mubarak, thus earning the immense gratitude of Egyptians!

Don't worry about the F-16s and tanks, the army is a state within a state, unless the MB succeeds in infilterating it.
Yeah right, and for a while, it seemed like the Obama Administration really believed that Benghazi was the result of a You Tube video...

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#22    libstaK

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

I think the attached video link puts the events in a proper context:

http://edition.cnn.c...t-port-said.cnn

All 72 deaths in the original football riot of 2012 were on one side - The Ultras, now what are the odds of that?

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
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In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#23    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:15 AM

View Postjoc, on 27 January 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

Yeah right, and for a while, it seemed like the Obama Administration really believed that Benghazi was the result of a You Tube video...

Well, someone at least got it right in this article!

http://edition.cnn.c....html?hpt=hp_c1


#24    AsteroidX

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

I believe there is still 50 verdicts left to be handed down in this case. So its too early to say how its gonna end up. Has potential to throw Egypt right back into turmoil. I was hopeful they would find the peace they protested for.


#25    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 27 January 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

I believe there is still 50 verdicts left to be handed down in this case. So its too early to say how its gonna end up. Has potential to throw Egypt right back into turmoil. I was hopeful they would find the peace they protested for.

The verdicts of the police officers, and Port Said's chief of police are the ones which were postponed. Civilians' verdicts were rushed, and were severe, out of expediency. The Ahly Ultras, who were participating in the country-wide demonstrations on 25 January, had to be 'bribed' and calmed down in the hopes separating them from the other demonstrators. It is very unlikely that the postponed verdicts will as harsh as the ones already passed on a hodgepodge group of known thugs with criminal records, and unfortunate fans who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. No effort was exerted to uncover those who hired the thugs or bussed them to the stadium, locked the gates...etc. A civilian charged with murder while crying that he was innocent had a heart attack and died in the court as his sentence was passed. Since the families of the accused and the people of Port Said felt that the trial was a miscarriage of justice and a ploy aiming to silence the Ahly ultras by using their city as a scapegoat, they revolted. Peace comes when real justice is seen to be meted.


#26    libstaK

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 27 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The verdicts of the police officers, and Port Said's chief of police are the ones which were postponed. Civilians' verdicts were rushed, and were severe, out of expediency. The Ahly Ultras, who were participating in the country-wide demonstrations on 25 January, had to be 'bribed' and calmed down in the hopes separating them from the other demonstrators. It is very unlikely that the postponed verdicts will as harsh as the ones already passed on a hodgepodge group of known thugs with criminal records, and unfortunate fans who were at the wrong place at the wrong time. No effort was exerted to uncover those who hired the thugs or bussed them to the stadium, locked the gates...etc. A civilian charged with murder while crying that he was innocent had a heart attack and died in the court as his sentence was passed. Since the families of the accused and the people of Port Said felt that the trial was a miscarriage of justice and a ploy aiming to silence the Ahly ultras by using their city as a scapegoat, they revolted. Peace comes when real justice is seen to be meted.
It is horrifying that death sentences can be pronounced so summarily and uniformly on 21 people in one single case before the courts.  A persons life being at stake deserves a proper defence for each one of them.  I can easily believe that innocents were amongst the 21 or those caught up in the heat of the moment when the riots began on that day at the very least, not first degree murder but possibly manslaughter if there is physical evidence.  Is it really asking too much for a human life to hold enough value to ensure that the charges are bonafied and just before meting out a sentence?

I just can't see how it can be so uniformly 1st degree murder for all these 21.

But what really jars is that the result of this poor show of justice is the death of an additional 31 people and the injury of over another 300.  It's crazy and ill conceived.  The judge should be disbarred for behaving so summarily.

I sense a conflagaration simmering just below the surface in Egypt right now, these types of acts - the deaths in the original riots and 1000 injuries, together with what has now occurred are going to breed deep and abiding resentments on both sides that are just begging a chance of reprisal and counter reprisal (if that is a valid term).

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#27    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 27 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

It is horrifying that death sentences can be pronounced so summarily and uniformly on 21 people in one single case before the courts.  A persons life being at stake deserves a proper defence for each one of them.  I can easily believe that innocents were amongst the 21 or those caught up in the heat of the moment when the riots began on that day at the very least, not first degree murder but possibly manslaughter if there is physical evidence.  Is it really asking too much for a human life to hold enough value to ensure that the charges are bonafied and just before meting out a sentence?

I just can't see how it can be so uniformly 1st degree murder for all these 21.

But what really jars is that the result of this poor show of justice is the death of an additional 31 people and the injury of over another 300.  It's crazy and ill conceived.  The judge should be disbarred for behaving so summarily.

I sense a conflagaration simmering just below the surface in Egypt right now, these types of acts - the deaths in the original riots and 1000 injuries, together with what has now occurred are going to breed deep and abiding resentments on both sides that are just begging a chance of reprisal and counter reprisal (if that is a valid term).

http://www.youm7.com...2587/index.html
Above is a link to pictures of the funeral procession of the 31 who died in Port Said. Thousands attended, yet once again smoke bombs and bullets were shot, 270 more were injured! As I said before, the objective of the verdicts was to appease the Ahly Ultras and drive a wedge between them and other protesters. Justice was not really the objective. The whole thing from the very beginning was 'crazy and ill conceived' by whoever dreamt up of teaching the Ultras a lesson in Port Said's stadium in the first place!  Only true justice, thoroughly carried out, would have averted the present explosion in the whole Suez Canal area. With this charade of justice, along with the total disregard of the people's demands by greedy incompetent powers  Egypt has moved from a simmer to "soft boil'. What they fail to realize is that Egyptians have changed!

Edited by meryt-tetisheri, 27 January 2013 - 04:37 PM.


#28    Yamato

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:14 AM

Hey I know, let's deliver 20 jet fighters to Morsi in addition to the billions of grandfathered Behave-Yourself-$$ he gets for free already, and then when the 500lb bombs are falling out of the sky on Egyptians' heads, we'll scratch ours and think  "Wow! Sure couldn't have seen that coming!"
:innocent:

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#29    and then

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:58 AM

View PostYamato, on 28 January 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Hey I know, let's deliver 20 jet fighters to Morsi in addition to the billions of grandfathered Behave-Yourself-$$ he gets for free already, and then when the 500lb bombs are falling out of the sky on Egyptians' heads, we'll scratch ours and think  "Wow! Sure couldn't have seen that coming!"
:innocent:
I certainly don't like that we should be continuing to arm the Army while Mursi's acting the way he is but it just might turn that this is the only way to keep the Army from marching lock step with him.  And if that is the only influence we have with the Egyptian army then it has to be maintained.  Once the people in large majority have made it clear that they will NOT follow him and his MB goons then the army can step in and reshuffle the deck.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#30    Yamato

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

View Postand then, on 28 January 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

I certainly don't like that we should be continuing to arm the Army while Mursi's acting the way he is but it just might turn that this is the only way to keep the Army from marching lock step with him.  And if that is the only influence we have with the Egyptian army then it has to be maintained.  Once the people in large majority have made it clear that they will NOT follow him and his MB goons then the army can step in and reshuffle the deck.
The army has nothing to do with it.   The jets are going to Egypt's Air Force, commanded by Reda Mahmoud Hafez Mohamed.   The rest of your post is pure conjecture.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela





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