Ramey Memo

[FiascoMo]

Apparently, in the famous picture of Ramey and the weather balloon. He is holding a small sheet of paper. Computer analysis have been made and apparently it blows the cover off the Roswell case.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/

"The message turns out to be a telegram from Gen. Ramey to the Pentagon and

Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, the acting AAF Chief of Staff at the time. Ramey is providing Vandenberg an update on the very fluid situation in-the-field at Roswell.

The first paragraph describes what had been found. Ramey starts by acknowledging "THAT A 'DISK' IS NEXT NEW FIND." He then adds that "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and something else (possibly just "A WRECK") had also been found near the recovery "OPERATION AT THE 'RANCH'." At the end it states that "YOU" (i.e. Gen. Vandenberg) had ordered the "victims" and/or the wreckage "FORWARDED" to "FORT WORTH, TEX."

[jaylemurph]

So, in trying to perpetrate a huge cover-up, one of the principal agent brings along to a place with the press a telegram that debunks him and then gets photographed with it?!

If you buy that website, I have a nice little bridge to sell you -- historical presence, pleasant design and an excellent location over the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Cheap, too!

--Jaylemurph

[Lance5550]

Most of the stuff on that piece of paper is definitely up to interpretaion....but the words "crash" and the part of the word "ali__" are obvious (as well as a few others). To dismiss this as silly is like dismissing the fact that Jack Ruby had mafia connections...it's simply a fact.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Lance5550

[bball]

I have heard of this before. All this site is doing is posting a picture of a memo that is in the picture and the text is certainly something to be studied. So weather or not the site is credible is irrelevant. The point is that everytime you see some interesting or debateable evidence that deserves attention, do not discredit the source. This is not the only site or person to know of this memo. And I don't doubt that Gen. Ramey might have had an important letter with him. The military wasn't exactly discreet or thinking ahead when they released a press statement saying they had a flying saucer.

[Lance5550]

I have heard of this before. All this site is doing is posting a picture of a memo that is in the picture and the text is certainly something to be studied. So weather or not the site is credible is irrelevant. The point is that everytime you see some interesting or debateable evidence that deserves attention, do not discredit the source. This is not the only site or person to know of this memo. And I don't doubt that Gen. Ramey might have had an important letter with him. The military wasn't exactly discreet or thinking ahead when they released a press statement saying they had a flying saucer.

Well...people don't normally do deathbed confessions for a gag...especially if they are normal religious people otherwise.

And the fisrt law of logic (for me) is that the first explanation in the heat of a situation - is most likely true.

Maybe not perfect or even correct...but the odds lean that way.

[skyeagle409]

Apparently, in the famous picture of Ramey and the weather balloon. He is holding a small sheet of paper. Computer analysis have been made and apparently it blows the cover off the Roswell case.

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/

"The message turns out to be a telegram from Gen. Ramey to the Pentagon and

Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, the acting AAF Chief of Staff at the time. Ramey is providing Vandenberg an update on the very fluid situation in-the-field at Roswell.

The first paragraph describes what had been found. Ramey starts by acknowledging "THAT A 'DISK' IS NEXT NEW FIND." He then adds that "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and something else (possibly just "A WRECK") had also been found near the recovery "OPERATION AT THE 'RANCH'." At the end it states that "YOU" (i.e. Gen. Vandenberg) had ordered the "victims" and/or the wreckage "FORWARDED" to "FORT WORTH, TEX."

General Ramey's letter was featured on TV just the other night.

Military personnel, who were directly involved in the Roswell incident, have stated that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials. Even military and civilian personnel at Wright-Patterson AFB have stated that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials based on their examinations. Senator Barry Goldwater wanted to take a look at alien technology at Wright-Patterson AFB, but was turned down and he made it clear that it wasn't done in a very nice way.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

Senator Barry Goldwater

"My friend, General Curtis LeMay, Chairman of the Military Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon VERY angrily told me that I had no need to know. He gave me a lot of HELL about my activities at Wright-Patterson. He threatened to end our friendship for life! My God, Mac, that surprised the hell out of me." LeMay added, "you stay clear of our mutual friend, "Butch", too. (meaning General William "Butch" Blanchard) his having been at Roswell (later Walker) Army Air base and the 509Th., will not gain you any favor for knowledge of that Roswell crash claim."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

We now know beyond any doubt that no balloon of any kind was ever involved in the Roswell incident and we have uncovered proof that the suggestion to use a rawin device to cover-up the Roswell incident came from outside Roswell AAF, but I didn't need that document to tell me that the Roswell incident is currently covered up by the government and Congressman Steven Schiff had found out the hard way when the Air Force blocked his attempts to investgate the Roswell incident and He made it clear there is a Roswell cover-up and his coments were published in the Washington Post on January 14, 1994.

The Roswell photos were hoaxed by the military and the debris in the photos were torn by hand and not what was recovered on the Foster ranch and of all of the stories on the Roswell incident, only the initial 'flying saucer recovery' story remains untact, since the cover-up stories have already been proven as false. Now, Lt. Haut's affidavit has been released and it corroborates what other military personnel have been saying all along in retgards to ET beings and the Roswell incident.

Edited July 14, 2007 by skyeagle409

[Lance5550]

I guess my only question is...is the area of the Roswell crash off-limits to regular folks? I should know this but I'm not that up to par on the deal. Logically, if they brought in a bunch of E-3's to scour the area they would have missed some small particles. With current technology, those particles could easily be found. We wouldn't need a 1/2 inch piece of spacecraft...a minute piece could be micro-analyzed.

[Dan_Orlovsky]

So, in trying to perpetrate a huge cover-up, one of the principal agent brings along to a place with the press a telegram that debunks him and then gets photographed with it?!

If you buy that website, I have a nice little bridge to sell you -- historical presence, pleasant design and an excellent location over the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Cheap, too!

--Jaylemurph

Well for one thing they didnt have computers that could blow up images like we do now so Ramey prolly wasnt too concerned about it being photographed at the distance that it was. Second, the official story originally put out by the Army was that it was indeed a flying saucer. That changed as soon as Ramey showed up. Roswell is only a mystery to individuals who dont want to leave their nice little world of security.

[skyeagle409]

I guess my only question is...is the area of the Roswell crash off-limits to regular folks?

I don't know if it is or not. They have had all kinds of people out there but they had permission to dig around the area.

[Fluffybunny]

I don't know if it is or not. They have had all kinds of people out there but they had permission to dig around the area.

My understanding is that it still is a working ranch, and private property, but that permission is given from time to time for folks to investigate. I think that the biggest issue is that the huge size of the ranch and the lack of details from the ranch owner regarding the crash site has left no confirmed area to check. The last thing I read was that folks were taking computer generated topographical maps in order to try and estimate where an impact may have been based on a few clues left from 1947. Even if there is chunks of debris left buried in the sand there is just no way to search hundreds/thousands of acres of land for tiny pieces of material; it just isn't feasible and makes searching for a needle in a haystack seem like easy pickings.

As for the memo; I am not sure what to make of it; it seems like some of the workds are rather open to interpretation, and when I give the interpretation that I read in the original posts link thought, I do not see this experienced military man bringing a top secret document to the photo session with the balloon material in an attempt to debunk the earlier claims- it just doesn't make sense and even if it was some longshot attempt by Ramey to leave some photographic evidence regarding the truth, I do not see how the other soldiers would allow the document to be shown as it is in the photo.

I wish it were true, but my gut tells me that it is more wishful thinking than anything.

[skyeagle409]

My understanding is that it still is a working ranch, and private property, but that permission is given from time to time for folks to investigate. I think that the biggest issue is that the huge size of the ranch and the lack of details from the ranch owner regarding the crash site has left no confirmed area to check. The last thing I read was that folks were taking computer generated topographical maps in order to try and estimate where an impact may have been based on a few clues left from 1947. Even if there is chunks of debris left buried in the sand there is just no way to search hundreds/thousands of acres of land for tiny pieces of material; it just isn't feasible and makes searching for a needle in a haystack seem like easy pickings.

As for the memo; I am not sure what to make of it; it seems like some of the workds are rather open to interpretation, and when I give the interpretation that I read in the original posts link thought, I do not see this experienced military man bringing a top secret document to the photo session with the balloon material in an attempt to debunk the earlier claims- it just doesn't make sense and even if it was some longshot attempt by Ramey to leave some photographic evidence regarding the truth, I do not see how the other soldiers would allow the document to be shown as it is in the photo.

I wish it were true, but my gut tells me that it is more wishful thinking than anything.

Thanks!

I believe that technology will eventually reveal Ramey's letter to where there will be no question as to its contents. General Ramey was also present at the Air Force's news conference in 1952 to explain away the UFO incidents over Washington as temperature inversion.

[Enigma wrapped in a puzzle]

So, in trying to perpetrate a huge cover-up, one of the principal agent brings along to a place with the press a telegram that debunks him and then gets photographed with it?!

If you buy that website, I have a nice little bridge to sell you -- historical presence, pleasant design and an excellent location over the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan. Cheap, too!

--Jaylemurph

The memo he has is in his hand with only a small amount showing. Wh y would you even think this is hard to believe? He has a memo that is telling him what to do about what is going on and he is taking a cover up photogragh. OMG that is ridiculous to think that could happen.

P.S. your bridge reference was gay.

[Cinders]

This was sort of discussed on CNN Larry King Live show last night...

LKL: Are UFO's Real?

[skyeagle409]

This was sort of discussed on CNN Larry King Live show last night...

LKL: Are UFO's Real?

Thanks, Cinders!

In the video, I heard the words: "Not of this earth." Basically, that is what other military personnel have been saying all along in regards to the Roswell incident.

[psyche101]

The memo he has is in his hand with only a small amount showing. Wh y would you even think this is hard to believe? He has a memo that is telling him what to do about what is going on and he is taking a cover up photogragh. OMG that is ridiculous to think that could happen.

P.S. your bridge reference was gay.

Sorry, Jaylemurph is right. Top secret is exactly that, press would not be allowed to enter the room with high level communications present. That would be like leaving your wallet open on the counter whilst you wander the shop. In addition, Ramey would be drawn and quartered for such a breach.

Honestly, get a 35mm camera, which probably would be better quality than the one originally used, cut a section of newspaper and photgraph it from across the room. Then try to blow up or even make out the text. You will see why this is a hoax claim.

Even if one had the original, you can't do this, you can't just blow things up with no loss. Best you could get with that evidence is a blob.

Bad evidence like this make me quite sure no spacecraft was within several parsecs of Roswelll in 1947.

Edited July 16, 2007 by psyche101

[skyeagle409]

Bad evidence like this make me quite sure no spacecraft was within several parsecs of Roswelll in 1947.

The memo would just confirm what military and civilian personnel have been saying all along, and that is, the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials.

In addition, witnesses were reporting flying saucers overhead even before Mac Brazel discovered the debris field on the Foster ranch. In fact, the Wilmot's report made it to the press before the military's report. To further add, the area is where scientist and engineers were tracking flying saucers in additon to those in Minnesota, and in their own words, the flying saucers they were tracking were extraterrestrial as well.

The military would never have spent thousands of dollars to conduct aircraft flights to fly remains of a weather balloon to Wright-Patterson AFB to find out what it was. Now, we are left with this question; what was it that crashed 60 years ago that compells the military to keep it locked behind close-doors to this very day? A number of classified military aircraft have been revealed over the years but not the object that crashed at Roswell.

* Project Mogul balloon train #4

* Flying saucer

[skyeagle409]

So, in trying to perpetrate a huge cover-up, one of the principal agent brings along to a place with the press a telegram that debunks him and then gets photographed with it?!

Actually, there is another document that debunks the weather balloon rawin remains that General Ramey is posing with and that document suggested using a weather balloon device, which is shown in the photos, to cover up what was actually recovered.

[Enigma wrapped in a puzzle]

Sorry, Jaylemurph is right. Top secret is exactly that, press would not be allowed to enter the room with high level communications present. That would be like leaving your wallet open on the counter whilst you wander the shop. In addition, Ramey would be drawn and quartered for such a breach.

Honestly, get a 35mm camera, which probably would be better quality than the one originally used, cut a section of newspaper and photgraph it from across the room. Then try to blow up or even make out the text. You will see why this is a hoax claim.

Even if one had the original, you can't do this, you can't just blow things up with no loss. Best you could get with that evidence is a blob.

Bad evidence like this make me quite sure no spacecraft was within several parsecs of Roswelll in 1947.

I am sure he is right psche101 because he agrees with you right? So its not possible for you to believe that Ramey was called out of his office for a photo opp. while he was reading a memo or holding a memo. Now since technology back then was so ancient why do you think he would have even thought about there being an issue taking a picture with a folded up memo? He would not have been "quartered for such a breach" as you put it because no one new what he was holding in his hand until now 60 years later. Have you even been to the website and seen how they are analizing the photo? Some of it is pretty obvious and some is up to speculation.

[bball]

Sorry, Jaylemurph is right. Top secret is exactly that, press would not be allowed to enter the room with high level communications present. That would be like leaving your wallet open on the counter whilst you wander the shop. In addition, Ramey would be drawn and quartered for such a breach.

Honestly, get a 35mm camera, which probably would be better quality than the one originally used, cut a section of newspaper and photgraph it from across the room. Then try to blow up or even make out the text. You will see why this is a hoax claim.

Even if one had the original, you can't do this, you can't just blow things up with no loss. Best you could get with that evidence is a blob.

Bad evidence like this make me quite sure no spacecraft was within several parsecs of Roswelll in 1947.

It is right there in front of you. How is this a hoax? He has a letter and it has information of some kind on it, and with newer technology it is able to be studied and anaylyzed. Why does that not makes sense to you? No one says you can't blow things up with no loss, if you could we would know what the whole thing says. But you cannot deny that some of it is legible to a certain degree.

[xstortionist]

Only way to find out if that is really what the letter says is to make a duplicate still frame photo in a room with a letter typed up in the same kind of font and have the picture taken the same way...the compare both pictures and see if the words look the same in the same resolution.

[Agent. Mulder]

Only way to find out if that is really what the letter says is to make a duplicate still frame photo in a room with a letter typed up in the same kind of font and have the picture taken the same way...the compare both pictures and see if the words look the same in the same resolution.

despite the fact i do believe in the Ramey memo, that is a good way to find out whether or not our technology is actually working and showing us pretty much what it the memo says.

[psyche101]

I am sure he is right psche101 because he agrees with you right? So its not possible for you to believe that Ramey was called out of his office for a photo opp. while he was reading a memo or holding a memo. Now since technology back then was so ancient why do you think he would have even thought about there being an issue taking a picture with a folded up memo? He would not have been "quartered for such a breach" as you put it because no one new what he was holding in his hand until now 60 years later. Have you even been to the website and seen how they are analizing the photo? Some of it is pretty obvious and some is up to speculation.

Nothing to do with agreeing with me, just pixels.

Top security is top security. Press, media are not allowed in a room containing top secret material. No, when carrying sensitive information, one does not opt to partake in a photo opp. It's just good sense, this is the military. Why do all believers think the military is clever enough to keep such an incredible secret, yet c*** up on basic protocols?

He would be in extreme trouble if he allowed non-military personell in the presence of top secret material. Being "Quartered" may have been a light punishment for what is in effect, treason.

Yes I have seen the site, some time ago actually, I can only see the memo as speculation. If it can be proved otherwise, it would have and Roswell would be confirmed as an ET cover up. It is not. Fact. I don't have the same faith in this deciphering software. I know enough to know that any text captured at that distance with a 35mm camera would not be dechipherable.

This is fact, not speculation, not speculation on what may be. It may not be what you want, but it is what it is.

Bad evidence casts further doubt. This memo is grasping at straws. The people attempting to do the impossible have already deciphered this in thier minds. The text would be so difficult to make out on the original that the pursuit of this course alone shows it is no more than another act of desperation.

I would like to know your opinion on the fact that according to statistics we now have 600 witnesses and 11 crash sites?

Then again, perhaps these people are right because they agree with you?

[psyche101]

Only way to find out if that is really what the letter says is to make a duplicate still frame photo in a room with a letter typed up in the same kind of font and have the picture taken the same way...the compare both pictures and see if the words look the same in the same resolution.

I would welcome such an experiment. It would finally prove a few basic facts about graphics.

This is very similar to what I have suggested.

[psyche101]

It is right there in front of you. How is this a hoax? He has a letter and it has information of some kind on it, and with newer technology it is able to be studied and anaylyzed. Why does that not makes sense to you? No one says you can't blow things up with no loss, if you could we would know what the whole thing says. But you cannot deny that some of it is legible to a certain degree.

Indeed I do deny it. The "deciphered words are fake. Try the experiment. Prove me wrong. That text is so small that no matter how you view it, the legibility is lost at that resolution over that distance.

Newer technology cannot turn a blob into words no matter how good it is. Had the been original taken at high resolution, perhaps some text may be legible. You are wrong, huge losses are sufferred when enlarging. Remember, you are blowing up little squares, there is not enough little squares in that area of the pic to seperate the text.

If you had enough pixels to work with, you still wouldn't be able to read the memo, unless you have some software that can completely unfold it and X Ray through his thumb!

Edited July 17, 2007 by psyche101

[dcman]

Indeed I do deny it. The "deciphered words are fake. Try the experiment. Prove me wrong. That text is so small that no matter how you view it, the legibility is lost at that resolution over that distance.

Newer technology cannot turn a blob into words no matter how good it is. Had the been original taken at high resolution, perhaps some text may be legible. You are wrong, huge losses are sufferred when enlarging. Remember, you are blowing up little squares, there is not enough little squares in that area of the pic to seperate the text.

If you had enough pixels to work with, you still wouldn't be able to read the memo, unless you have some software that can completely unfold it and X Ray through his thumb!

I would like an intelligent reply to: "An Engineer Looks at the Project Mogul Hypothesis"

Summary and conclusion

A mathematical model idealized the debris field as a variable-length, parabola-shaped region sparsely covered with fragments of an extraordinary thin-shell material.

It was assumed that Mogul Flight 4 created the debris field, leaving behind metalized-paper, rawin-radar-target remnants having a known total surface area.

Model-predicted and Mogul Flight 4-supplied thin-shell material surface areas were compared. One Mogul balloon train could account for only an extremely small fraction of the reported debris, even if Major Jesse Marcel had badly overestimated the field size.

Clearly, Project Mogul Flight 4 could not have been responsible for the debris found on the Foster ranch. Indeed, the analysis illustrates in a most compelling fashion just how absurd the Air Force’s Mogul hypothesis really is.

Read the whole thing here: http://www.cufos.org/ros4.html and respond please.