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Olympic Ceremony Heathcare Propaganda


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#46    Br Cornelius

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 06:01 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Another lefty comes out of the woodwork!

The Labour Party were a disaster when it came to managing the economy. They were so bad they hid it by allowing 500,000 immigrants into the country every year to create the illusion of growth instead of shrinkage.

No doubt that is their plan for solving the economic problems too at the next election. How many will it be this time?

Do not try to distract from the failures of Right wing neo-liberalism - which the last labour government pursued with enthusiasm. Attacks on social programs by a rabid right winger hardly has much credibility as an argument.

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#47    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:17 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Another lefty comes out of the woodwork!


I love how that's seen as an insult. Like "Lib". I think you'd be so much happier in America, where you could splutter about "Libs" and "Dems" to your heart's content, and you might find somebody who'd take you seriously.

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#48    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

Do not try to distract from the failures of Right wing neo-liberalism - which the last labour government pursued with enthusiasm. Attacks on social programs by a rabid right winger hardly has much credibility as an argument.

Br Cornelius

Neo-liberalism is not flawed it forms the basis on which a capitalist economy works. Its also taught to every business student in the land as part of their economics lessons.

The Labour Party did not pursue a policy of neo-liberalism. With its nationalisation of the banking industry it actually took the largest step to the left of any government in modern history. I could rip to peices its over expenditure on education and public services but I will stop there.

Britain does not have a capitalist economy it has a mixed one. I think you need to remember that when judging how much of a failure our modern economy is. Some figures for you from Labours last run of Government -

1. British population 60m
2. Yearly immigration 500,000
3. Natives birth rate 0.4%
4. Yearly population growth as a percentage = 3.74%

Now that means unless the economy grew at 3.74% per year we actually got poorer - http://www.google.co...q=uk gdp growth

It only grew in years 1998 and 2000. Every other year from the Blair-Brown era we got a little poorer. Household incomes dropped by vast amounts as we payed higher taxes to support their education and public service policies.

The state has gradually become poorer since 2000 thanks to socialism. I've also missed off Eastern European workers so it will be much worse than the above figures show.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 29 July 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#49    Br Cornelius

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Neo-liberalism is not flawed it forms the basis on which a capitalist economy works. Its also taught to every business student in the land as part of their economics lessons.

The Labour Party did not pursue a policy of neo-liberalism. With its nationalisation of the banking industry it actually took the largest step to the left of any government in modern history. I could rip to peices its over expenditure on education and public services but I will stop there.

Britain does not have a capitalist economy it has a mixed one. I think you need to remember that when judging how much of a failure our modern economy is. Some figures for you from Labours last run of Government -

1. British population 60m
2. Yearly immigration 500,000
3. Natives birth rate 0.4%
4. Yearly population growth as a percentage = 3.74%

Now that means unless the economy grew at 3.74% per year we actually got poorer - http://www.google.co...q=uk gdp growth

It only grew in years 1998 and 2000. Every other year from the Blair-Brown era we got a little poorer. Household incomes dropped by vast amounts as we payed higher taxes to support their education and public service policies.

The state has gradually become poorer since 2000 thanks to socialism.

Fundamentally all parties have pursued a neo-liberal agenda - simply dressed up in marginally different ways. The current Government has contracted the economy in its two years in office which is not a good advert for your ideas. I would not be so bold as to support the mess which labour made of the economy - but thats not a big issue for me since I am not a labour supporter. However attacks on one of the most efficient health care delivery systems in the world in favour of a replication of failed American model just makes your position laughable.

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#50    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:52 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 29 July 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Fundamentally all parties have pursued a neo-liberal agenda - simply dressed up in marginally different ways. The current Government has contracted the economy in its two years in office which is not a good advert for your ideas. I would not be so bold as to support the mess which labour made of the economy - but thats not a big issue for me since I am not a labour supporter. However attacks on one of the most efficient health care delivery systems in the world in favour of a replication of failed American model just makes your position laughable.

Br Cornelius

With the UK economy exporting banking and services while being an importer of food and petroleum we are limited in what actions we can take to balance the books. Austerity, quantitive easing and tax-cuts are pretty much all we can do. All are ineffective while we are coupled to the EU when it comes to kick starting the economy. The depression will last until the EU sorts itself out.

In global depressions its oddly enough countries like North Korea which are most able to resist the hardship. If everybody earns the same and the nation is self-sufficent you can hyper-inflate the debt away. But North Korea is also very poor with a low quality of life.

I disagree that the NHS is efficent. It has a tall management structure, people in it earn a state wage not one they would get in the private sector, drug prices are fixed artifically high and there is too much beaurcracy. The Americans had it right before Obama meddled. There is also the point that poor service provided by a privite company also costs it customers so there is pressure to perform.


#51    smurf0852

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

With the UK economy exporting banking and services while being an importer of food and petroleum we are limited in what actions we can take to balance the books. Austerity, quantitive easing and tax-cuts are pretty much all we can do. All are ineffective while we are coupled to the EU when it comes to kick starting the economy. The depression will last until the EU sorts itself out.

In global depressions its oddly enough countries like North Korea which are most able to resist the hardship. If everybody earns the same and the nation is self-sufficent you can hyper-inflate the debt away. But North Korea is also very poor with a low quality of life.

I disagree that the NHS is efficent. It has a tall management structure, people in it earn a state wage not one they would get in the private sector, drug prices are fixed artifically high and there is too much beaurcracy. The Americans had it right before Obama meddled. There is also the point that poor service provided by a privite company also costs it customers so there is pressure to perform.
doctors,nurses and medical admin staff get paid more in private hospitals than they do in the NHS.or would you advocate privatising the NHS and then putting them all on minimum wage because they didnt go to eton ?


#52    smurf0852

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:30 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Under the NHS someone of poor health becomes a financial burdon on the state but under private healthcare they quickly reach the point where they cant afford treatment.

The important thing to remember here is that every peice of Socialism needs to be paid for through taxes. Higher taxes which usually target the commercial sector drive up business costs making them less competitive. The result is lower exports and higher imports. The British GDP is artifically low because of the high taxes in the state which are needed to pay for all the socialism.

Do you like paying council tax? income tax? NICs? VAT on fuel? VAT? road tax?
Do businesses like paying employee NICs and high corporation taxes?
Do you like paying your share of keeping 500,000 in prison cells?
Do you like paying for the pointless education of millions who wont get to use their qualifications?

If all the socialism was stripped out and taxes decimated the UK would very quickly become the worlds leading economic superpower. We were 100 years ago before all the above bs was introduced.
i really dont mind paying my taxes i do mind they being used as tax credits so rich companys can pay there staff crap wages.some big companys have benefit advisers who work out how many hours a member of staff is better off working without it effecting there tax credits.well here is a novel idea pay the staff a decent wage and our tax burden will fall it isnt rocket science but greed at the top once again will not allow this to happen.


#53    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:44 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 29 July 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

doctors,nurses and medical admin staff get paid more in private hospitals than they do in the NHS.or would you advocate privatising the NHS and then putting them all on minimum wage because they didnt go to eton ?

A distortion.

The amount of private hospitals in the UK is low and they naturally employ the best staff. Under a privatised system all medical staff would be employed by the private sector. They would be paid what they are worth as set by the demand for their skills. Medical staff would still be an in demand job so their wages would still be high but instead of paying a placcy surgeon £250,000 a year he'd be on £100,000 (as an example).

The difference between private and public education is the types of youngsters your children are exposed to. Many children in public schools are toxic and they affect the lives of the other children they come into contact with. Toxic people find it hard getting anywhere in life so its rare they can afford to send their own kids to a private school. The quality of education received at both is the same. Also you cant educate an idiot no matter if you sent him to the best school on earth.

We should segregate children in the lower class. By bringing back grammer schools we can remove those that have potential from the rest so they can achieve the social mobility they're capable off.


#54    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:52 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 29 July 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

i really dont mind paying my taxes i do mind they being used as tax credits so rich companys can pay there staff crap wages.some big companys have benefit advisers who work out how many hours a member of staff is better off working without it effecting there tax credits.well here is a novel idea pay the staff a decent wage and our tax burden will fall it isnt rocket science but greed at the top once again will not allow this to happen.

Where have you worked? (If you dont mind me asking)


#55    None of the above

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Another lefty comes out of the woodwork!




Surely in the language of your rabid right wing rants, we would be 'Reds coming out from under the beds"


#56    None of the above

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 29 July 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

doctors,nurses and medical admin staff get paid more in private hospitals than they do in the NHS.or would you advocate privatising the NHS and then putting them all on minimum wage because they didnt go to eton ?

Don't be crazy, he's already said he's opposed to the minimum wage ;)

Edited by Atlantia, 29 July 2012 - 10:07 PM.


#57    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:18 PM

View PostAtlantia, on 29 July 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

Don't be crazy, he's already said he's opposed to the minimum wage ;)

lol

Doctors, nurses and specialists are valued members of society but they should still be on private wages not state salaries. They should also be paid what they're worth. I'm happy for a brain surgeon to be earning half a million a year but only if he/she deserves it.

Many at the bottom of society arent worth minimum wage so its wrong to pay them that. Lazy, unproductive, unskilled, incompetant employees should be on £3 an hour. They are not valuable to a business or society.


#58    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

The irony is that as the economy expanded, unemployment would drop and then wages would rise.
yes, because in the great capitalist utopia that is the US, everyone is paid a sensible and appropriate wage, more then enough to live on and afford all the luxuaries od life like being able to see a GP when you're sick.

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#59    Br Cornelius

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:26 PM

Just to debunk the contention that the American system is more efficient, here is the conclusion of a US Government review of administrative costs comparing the US system to the Canadian system (comparable to the UK system). Its main conclusion is;

Quote

Most of the empirical literature on administrative costs
compare the U.S. and Canadian health care systems. These
studies indicate that administering the Canadian system con-
sumes a substantially smaller proportion of health care spend-
ing than does the U.S. system. Imposition of a Canadian-style
system in the United States would substantially reduce admin-
istrative costs, although estimates of those savings range wide-
ly (from $47 billion to $98 billion in 1991 U.S. dollars).


http://docs-europe.e...66b810fb25c.pdf

So the multi-insurer administration model is inherently more inefficient than the single provider model followed in Canada and the UK. The Canadian system has the secondary benefit of offering equal access to health provision such that those on minimum wage jobs do not have to face second class service or die from lack of provision.

I think that if the British public were asked the simple question of which system they would choose - we can all guess what the answer would be (here's a hint -  not the one suggested by by Mr Right Wing. Maybe he believe that the people are to ignorant to make the Right choice).

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 29 July 2012 - 10:32 PM.

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#60    None of the above

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 29 July 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Where have you worked? (If you dont mind me asking)

Seeing as you've asked the question.
What do you do?
How do you serve our great nation?





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