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Are Ghosts Mentally Ill?


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#106    DancingCorpse

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:15 PM

I suppose active spirits who still frequent places which held great torment and sadness for them could be seen as suffering 'mental illness' (think it's a very streamlined and packaged box to call it a mere illness) still, otherwise they'd have moved on or be only in visitation if they had reached closure or peace with that part of their physical existence. I don't believe the cliché thing in a lot of ghost hunt programs about saying a prayer and go towards the light, it doesn't suit every spirit's beliefs/desires surely and is very simplistic and quick. It's a sad thing to think about spirit forms who are lost, how the heck do you solve a problem like that, it's tough enough to wade through a bout of darkness whilst alive in the present world!

Edited by DancingCorpse, 23 November 2012 - 07:16 PM.

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#107    CRIPTIC CHAMELEON

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:09 PM

I do believe that when you pass on you do take some of your life's persona hence why you have say a headless ghost or a stinky ghost or chain rattling etc etc what ever trauma you have when you pass over go's with you until you move on to your next existence.


#108    SSilhouette

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:56 AM

Quote

I suppose active spirits who still frequent places which held great torment and sadness for them could be seen as suffering 'mental illness' (think it's a very streamlined and packaged box to call it a mere illness) still, otherwise they'd have moved on or be only in visitation if they had reached closure or peace with that part of their physical existence. I don't believe the cliché thing in a lot of ghost hunt programs about saying a prayer and go towards the light, it doesn't suit every spirit's beliefs/desires surely and is very simplistic and quick. It's a sad thing to think about spirit forms who are lost, how the heck do you solve a problem like that, it's tough enough to wade through a bout of darkness whilst alive in the present world!

I agree Dancing Corpse.  It is constricting to merely call it "mental illness".  But for the purposes of this conversation, I think everyone gets the gist.  I would venture to say that mentall illness in the living is really more of a spiritual problem that we have chosen to believe is organic.  Sure, there's things like epilepsy and parkinsons etc. which really are organic misfiring of the brain, which serves as the main processor for the spirit while it interfaces with the material world.  But spiritual illness is one as a result of trauma to the personality or of choices we make.

It really is simplistic to think that telling a ghost deeply twisted in spirit to "go to the light".  I'd imagine a lot more convicing would have to be done in most cases.  But in those cases where the spirit isn't aware it's dead fully, I think that might suffice.  But for those heavily twisted souls that can't let go, I'd think just having a regular conversation with them, like you're advising a live person would work better.  And I doubt those conversations could solve the problem all in one shot.  For some really hard cases it might take a year or more even to finally nudge the spirit on?


#109    coldethyl

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 12:49 PM

View PostSSilhouette, on 24 November 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

I agree Dancing Corpse.  It is constricting to merely call it "mental illness".  But for the purposes of this conversation, I think everyone gets the gist.  I would venture to say that mentall illness in the living is really more of a spiritual problem that we have chosen to believe is organic.  Sure, there's things like epilepsy and parkinsons etc. which really are organic misfiring of the brain, which serves as the main processor for the spirit while it interfaces with the material world.  But spiritual illness is one as a result of trauma to the personality or of choices we make.

It really is simplistic to think that telling a ghost deeply twisted in spirit to "go to the light".  I'd imagine a lot more convicing would have to be done in most cases.  But in those cases where the spirit isn't aware it's dead fully, I think that might suffice.  But for those heavily twisted souls that can't let go, I'd think just having a regular conversation with them, like you're advising a live person would work better.  And I doubt those conversations could solve the problem all in one shot.  For some really hard cases it might take a year or more even to finally nudge the spirit on?

And because you think mental illness is 'spiritual' that is one of the reasons it has such a stigma in society today.

IS cancer or diabetes spiritual?  NO.  Neither is mental illness.  No matter what you THINK, it is organic and has been proven so.


Home Posted ImageInform YourselfPosted ImageAbout Mental Illness Posted ImageMental Illnesses
Posted Image | Posted Image | |  
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What is mental illness?

A mental illness is a medical condition that disrupts a person's thinking, feeling, mood, ability to relate to others and daily functioning. Just as diabetes is a disorder of the pancreas, mental illnesses are medical conditions that often result in a diminished capacity for coping with the ordinary demands of life.
Serious mental illnesses include major depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD), panic disorder, posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and borderline personality disorder. The good news about mental illness is that recovery is possible.
Mental illnesses can affect persons of any age, race, religion or income. Mental illnesses are not the result of personal weakness, lack of character or poor upbringing. Mental illnesses are treatable. Most people diagnosed with a serious mental illness can experience relief from their symptoms by actively participating in an individual treatment plan.

http://www.nami.org/

For Heaven's sake, read a link, do some research or something.

Although the exact cause of most mental illnesses is not known, it is becoming clear through research that many of these conditions are caused by a combination of genetic, biological, psychological, and environmental factors -- not personal weakness or a character defect -- and recovery from a mental illness is not simply a matter of will and self-discipline.
  • Heredity (genetics): Many mental illnesses run in families, suggesting they may be passed on from parents to children through genes. Genes contain instructions for the function of each cell in the body and are responsible for how we look, act, think, etc. However, just because your mother or father may have or had a mental illness doesn't mean you will have one. Hereditary just means that you are more likely to get the condition than if you didn't have an affected family member. Experts believe that many mental conditions are linked to problems in multiple genes -- not just one, as with many diseases -- which is why a person inherits a susceptibility to a mental disorder but doesn't always develop the condition. The disorder itself occurs from the interaction of these genes and other factors -- such as psychological trauma and environmental stressors -- which can influence, or trigger, the illness in a person who has inherited a susceptibility to it.
  • Biology: Some mental illnesses have been linked to an abnormal balance of brain chemicals called neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters help nerve cells in the brain to communicate with each other. If these chemicals are out of balance or are not working properly, messages may not make it through the brain correctly, leading to symptoms of mental illness. In addition, defects in or injury to certain areas of the brain also have been linked to some mental conditions. Also, recent studies also show inflammation may have a role in the development of mental illness.
  • Psychological trauma: Some mental illnesses may be triggered by psychological trauma suffered as a child or teenager, such as  
    • severe emotional, physical, or sexual abuse
    • a significant early loss, such as the loss of a parent
    • neglect
  • Environmental stressors: Certain stressors -- such as a death or divorce, a dysfunctional family life, changing jobs or schools, and substance abuse -- can trigger a disorder in a person who may be at risk for developing a mental illness.
  • Can Mental Illness Be Prevented?

    Unfortunately, most mental illnesses are caused by a combination of factors and cannot be prevented.
    How Common Is Mental Illness?

    Mental illnesses are very common. In fact, they are more common than cancer, diabetes, or heart disease. According to the National Institute of Mental Health, about 25% of American adults (those ages 18 and older) and about 13% of American children (those ages 8 to 15) are diagnosed with a mental disorder during a given year.
    Major depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia are among the U.S.'s top 10 leading causes of disability.
    Mental illness does not discriminate. It can affect people of any age, income or educational level, and cultural background. Although mental illness affects both males and females, certain conditions -- such as eating disorders -- tend to occur more often in females, and other disorders -- such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) -- more commonly occur in male children.
    How Is Mental Illness Treated?

    A mental illness, like many chronic illnesses, requires ongoing treatment. Fortunately, much progress has been made in the last two decades in treating mental illnesses. As a result, many mental conditions can be effectively treated with one or a combination of the following therapies:
  • Medication
  • Psychotherapy, such as individual or group therapy
  • Day treatment or partial hospital treatment
  • Specific therapies, such as cognitive behavioral therapy and behavior modification
Other treatments available include:
  • Alternative therapies, such as water therapy, massage, and biofeedback
  • Creative therapies, such as art therapy, music therapy, or play therapy
  • Hypnotherapy
  • Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT)
  • Vagus nerve stimulation (VNS)
  • Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS)  
What Is the Outlook for People With Mental Illness?

When diagnosed early and treated properly, many people fully recover from their mental illness or are able to successfully control their symptoms. Although some people become disabled because of a chronic or severe mental illness, many others are able to live full and productive lives. In fact, as many as eight in 10 people suffering from a mental illness can effectively return to their normal activities if they receive appropriate treatment.

http://www.webmd.com...-illness-basics

Now, as constructive arguments go, you post a valid argument from a valid website where it states mental illness is caused by a trauma wherein the spirit is yanked from the body at death.  And, please where there is no medical or biological explanation to mental illness.


#110    Ligia Cabus

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

View Postcoldethyl, on 23 November 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

That is my point exactly.  If the spirit is separate from the body, mental illness would not travel into the afterlife, just as cancer would not.  Do you see where I'm coming from?

I see a confusion here.

The question isn't a mental illness that someone has during the life. Occurs that in  the after life, in the transition among be live incarnated and be no more incarnated, the spirit pass by an experience that, many times, isn't well assimilated by the creature. Troubled with its new condition, many persons can manifest, in the post mortem,  mental problems that they never had during life.

Someone that can has been mentally healthy, considering a clinical pattern of normality, when faced with the situation of post mortem (hostility of other spirits, a new perspective with which can appreciate its own actions during the past life),  these are factors that can trigger an imbalance of Being in the post mortem.

The spiritist literature emphasizes that in the post mortem, the thought is decisive in the configuration of the reality that the disembodied spirit will go to experimence. These spirits are often victims of illusions created by their own beliefs and feelings. The feeling of guilt and, for example, is a creator of monsters.

There are examples of cases of blind people in life whose, in the post mortem, long remained blind. But, in fact, the factors that caused the organic blindness no longer were present.

So these people would not suffer more deprivation of the vision, not really -  but still beliving that remain blind, like in incarnated condition, they think that still are blind and remain in this condition until they be rescued. Then, they receive the  treatment of deconditioning from the past life. Cases like this are quoted and commented, for example, in the book spiritist "Memoirs of a Suicide" by Yvone A. Pereira (Memórias de um suicida).

Edited by Ligia Cabus, 24 November 2012 - 02:08 PM.


#111    coldethyl

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostLigia Cabus, on 24 November 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

I see a confusion here.

The question isn't a mental illness that someone has during the life. Occurs that in  the after life, in the transition among be live incarnated and be no more incarnated, the spirit pass by an experience that, many times, isn't well assimilated by the creature. Troubled with its new condition, many persons can manifest, in the post mortem,  mental problems that they never had during life.

Someone that can has been mentally healthy, considering a clinical pattern of normality, when faced with the situation of post mortem (hostility of other spirits, a new perspective with which can appreciate its own actions during the past life),  these are factors that can trigger an imbalance of Being in the post mortem.

The spiritist literature emphasizes that in the post mortem, the thought is decisive in the configuration of the reality that the disembodied spirit will go to experimence. These spirits are often victims of illusions created by their own beliefs and feelings. The feeling of guilt and, for example, is a creator of monsters.

There are examples of cases of blind people in life whose, in the post mortem, long remained blind. But, in fact, the factors that caused the organic blindness no longer were present.

So these people would not suffer more deprivation of the vision, not really -  but still beliving that remain blind, like in incarnated condition, they think that still are blind and remain in this condition until they be rescued. Then, they receive the  treatment of deconditioning from the past life. Cases like this are quoted and commented, for example, in the book spiritist "Memoirs of a Suicide" by Yvone A. Pereira (Memórias de um suicida).

Yes, a book based on theory and opinion not facts and science.

No one actually knows what happens when we die, it's based on faith.

To state that someone could acquire a mental illness after death, is still offensive as it still is the same thing as saying you could acquire cancer after death.

Emotional turmoil is not necessarily mental illness.  That is where this thread suffers and is ignorant.


#112    Rlyeh

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostLigia Cabus, on 17 November 2012 - 04:52 AM, said:

Mind and brain are not synonymous, nor in terms of academic science.
No one said they were, not even the quote you replied to.
According to academic science mental illness is caused by factors in the brain.


#113    Ligia Cabus

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 24 November 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

No one said they were, not even the quote you replied to.
According to academic science mental illness is caused by factors in the brain.

Oh, someone said...

View Postcoldethyl, on 23 October 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

IF ghosts exists they would have to have a brain to be mentally ill.

They would to have a brain? What kind of brain? A gray mass?

This is an affirmation that associates cleary mind and brain. More, associates the brain with mental illness but the premise of this topic is the existence of disembodied spirits, ghosts.To make a claim like this association is necessary to have a precise definition of mind is. I'm waiting and wondering: objectively, What is MIND?

To make a claim like this, this kind of  association - is necessary to have a precise definition of what is mind. I'm  asking and waiting the answer: objectively, What is MIND? Where is the definition of Mind in the argumentation of the great sages of this topic?

But the psychiatry still wasn't able to define the nature of of the thoughts or of the mind - lato sensu  (in wide sense). Recent experiments has revealed that the thoughts  can be projected like a kind of energy,  able move a computer's cursor, for example, allowing to paralised persons interact with machines. This is psychokinesis. Only one of the phenomenons which prove that the secrets of the mind and the thoughts aren't a closed question to the science.

Ghost WOULD HAVE A BRAIN... YEAH! BUT... What kind of brain? A gray mass?  Dense, like the substance of physical body? What thinks in us? The brain? The spirit?

And if the brain function reveal itself only as a complex medium, but simple medium or device for receiving and transmitting messages, as proposed by the bio-chemical Rupert Sheldrake - and mental illness be - a result of a device broken?

*snip*

Edited by Saru, 24 November 2012 - 08:12 PM.
Removed flame


#114    Saru

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:11 PM

Thread cleaned

Can we keep the comments civil and respectful please, no name calling or derogatory personal remarks


#115    coldethyl

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

View PostSaru, on 24 November 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Thread cleaned

Can we keep the comments civil and respectful please, no name calling or derogatory personal remarks

Thank you very much.


#116    coldethyl

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostLigia Cabus, on 24 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Oh, someone said...



They would to have a brain? What kind of brain? A gray mass?

This is an affirmation that associates cleary mind and brain. More, associates the brain with mental illness but the premise of this topic is the existence of disembodied spirits, ghosts.To make a claim like this association is necessary to have a precise definition of mind is. I'm waiting and wondering: objectively, What is MIND?

To make a claim like this, this kind of  association - is necessary to have a precise definition of what is mind. I'm  asking and waiting the answer: objectively, What is MIND? Where is the definition of Mind in the argumentation of the great sages of this topic?

But the psychiatry still wasn't able to define the nature of of the thoughts or of the mind - lato sensu  (in wide sense). Recent experiments has revealed that the thoughts  can be projected like a kind of energy,  able move a computer's cursor, for example, allowing to paralised persons interact with machines. This is psychokinesis. Only one of the phenomenons which prove that the secrets of the mind and the thoughts aren't a closed question to the science.

Ghost WOULD HAVE A BRAIN... YEAH! BUT... What kind of brain? A gray mass?  Dense, like the substance of physical body? What thinks in us? The brain? The spirit?

And if the brain function reveal itself only as a complex medium, but simple medium or device for receiving and transmitting messages, as proposed by the bio-chemical Rupert Sheldrake - and mental illness be - a result of a device broken?

*snip*

I am aware of the mind-body dichotomy.  I have read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and ectoplasm is mainly thought to be hoaxed.  Cheesecloth was used in Doyle's day.

Please provide evidence where telekinesis actually exists.  I am not just copying and pasting, I am giving facts and backing them up.

Philosophy is supposed to be a rational study or thinking of a subject.

Science has come a long way since Doyle's book on spiritualism.


#117    Rlyeh

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:52 PM

View PostLigia Cabus, on 24 November 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

They would to have a brain? What kind of brain? A gray mass?
Ofcourse, unless you can demonstrate mental awareness without a brain.

Quote

I'm waiting and wondering: objectively, What is MIND?
Cognition and related faculties that maintain consciousness.

Quote

Ghost WOULD HAVE A BRAIN... YEAH! BUT... What kind of brain? A gray mass?  Dense, like the substance of physical body? What thinks in us? The brain? The spirit?
A brain is an organ, part of the central nervous system. Please don't mix quackery with biology.


#118    Cassea

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:04 AM

coldethyl I think you are taking this too personally.  I am mentally ill and don't take offence to the thread.  When I read the title I thought it was an interesting idea to consider.  But perhaps SSihouette means "spiritually ill" instead of mentally ill.  And perhaps that illness makes manifest a deprived energy.  A spiritual echo.  Imagine a long cry of pain that echoes and is heard longer than a simple word.  When a person who is spiritually ill dies that sense of pain can leave a shadow, echo, remnant of themselves after their bodies have physically died.

Understanding Traumatic Brain Injury communication issues.   http://www.asha.org/.../#comm_problems

#119    coldethyl

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:41 AM

View PostCassea, on 25 November 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

coldethyl I think you are taking this too personally.  I am mentally ill and don't take offence to the thread.  When I read the title I thought it was an interesting idea to consider.  But perhaps SSihouette means "spiritually ill" instead of mentally ill.  And perhaps that illness makes manifest a deprived energy.  A spiritual echo.  Imagine a long cry of pain that echoes and is heard longer than a simple word.  When a person who is spiritually ill dies that sense of pain can leave a shadow, echo, remnant of themselves after their bodies have physically died.

Perhaps you missed the message Saru removed where I was personally attacked.

I too am mentally ill and I do not like to perpertrate the stigma associated with it.  I see it constantly and have experienced it personally.  That is why I will defy ignorance of any kind when it comes to the subject.

If she means spiritually ill, then she should say so, as I have stated more than once what mental illness is and get no coherent response.

I appreciate your response, but as you even state, the OP does not clearly know what she is referring to.


#120    Cassea

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 12:45 AM

I don't think he or she meant to know.  That's why they opened it up for discussion.  I do not know of the stigma attached to mental illness.  The mind is a body part like any other. If you have a illness in your kidney or heart,  what stigma is attached.  Don't feel that way any longer.  Just poof it a way.   But the statement was that ghosts had mental illness, not necessarily that mentally ill people created ghosts.  At least that is how I read it.

Understanding Traumatic Brain Injury communication issues.   http://www.asha.org/.../#comm_problems




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