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Bigfoot: real or myth? -- Why? -- Why not?


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#346    S2F

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:05 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 14 June 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

It is well known that the ice ages have come and gone at a regular rate for well over a million years. And each one is pretty much like the last, where glaciation covers a good percentage of the northern hemisphere. And so logically the oceans would lower the same each time, and logically the same land bridges would show up each time.

Homo Erectus was found to live in China as far back as 750,000 years, so they would have had probably as many as 8 chances to get to the Americas. That we haven't found any fossils means either they never went over, or that we simply haven't found any evidence yet. Given the numbers of species that did cross over, I'd wonder why they didn't.

Posted Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_ages

Except Beringia (The land bridge between Siberia and Alaska) was never glaciated.

Quote

Beringia is a loosely defined region surrounding the Bering Strait, the Chukchi Sea, and the Bering Sea. It includes parts of Chukotka and Kamchatka in Russia as well as Alaska in the United States. In historical contexts it also includes the Bering land bridge, an ancient land bridge roughly 1,000 miles (1,600 km) wide (north to south) at its greatest extent, which connected Asia with North America at various times during the Pleistocene ice ages.

The term Beringia was first coined by the Swedish botanist Eric Hultén in 1937.[1] During the ice ages, Beringia, like most of Siberia and all of Manchuria, was not glaciated because snowfall was very light.[2] It was a grassland steppe, including the land bridge, that stretched for several hundred miles into the continents on either side. It is believed that a small human population of at most a few thousand survived the Last Glacial Maximum in Beringia, isolated from its ancestor populations in Asia for at least 5,000 years, before expanding to populate the Americas sometime after 16,500 years ago, during the Late Glacial Maximum as the American glaciers blocking the way southward melted


It requires sufficient glaciation in the rest of the world to drop sea levels enough to expose the seabed. I can't find the information that says exactly when Beringia appeared and when it didn't. Still looking.

*Never mind, I misread your post.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 14 June 2014 - 05:11 AM.

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#347    Q-C

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:24 AM

For me it doesn’t matter what I know or think I know or what I say. And even though I'll try to make a point and fight for a point (that is what we do here), I don’t expect it to matter much at all to anyone else on an anonymous public para/cryptid forum.

What does speak volumes to me however is... Why isn’t mainstream science (those who DO know, those we should listen to) interested, intrigued, dialoguing and investigating the thousands-to-hundreds –to-40- years of “evidence” of bigfoot?

If Bigfoot is so possible and if bigfoot is also probable, where are the mainstream scientists?

No one should ever blindly follow my lead, but I prefer to heed, or at least recognize science's.

This would be one heck of a discovery for any scientist/researcher, and since we have all this evidence, thousands of encounters, where is science? Why are they so silent and uninvolved?
Hmmm

Edited by QuiteContrary, 14 June 2014 - 05:33 AM.

Bigfoot is in the eye of the beholder

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#348    Night Walker

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:31 AM

View PostLDJ, on 13 June 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Pull back the drapes and let the light in N-W..  empty your mind of everything you think you know..  and never rule out anything..  there are still wonders yet to be discovered..

I appreciate the advice and hope that it applies to the "believers" too:

Empty your mind of everything you think you know about Bigfoot - examine what the history of "evidence" is really telling us about Bigfoot.
Never rule anything out - especially when people are involved.
There are still wonders yet to be discovered - yes there are even when they turn out to be somewhat different to what may have been expected.

Don't mistake me for a cynic - I still go out at night seeking the dangerous man-beast of Oz in its lair. Any are welcome to join me so long as they accept the risks - Yowies are known to rip people's heads right off!

Posted Image

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#349    LDJ

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:26 PM

View PostNight Walker, on 14 June 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I appreciate the advice and hope that it applies to the "believers" too:

Empty your mind of everything you think you know about Bigfoot - examine what the history of "evidence" is really telling us about Bigfoot.
Never rule anything out - especially when people are involved.
There are still wonders yet to be discovered - yes there are even when they turn out to be somewhat different to what may have been expected.

Don't mistake me for a cynic - I still go out at night seeking the dangerous man-beast of Oz in its lair. Any are welcome to join me so long as they accept the risks - Yowies are known to rip people's heads right off!

Posted Image

I think we are saying same thing N-W..  an open mind is the only way the truth will ever be discovered..  too many times we get distracted by the agendas of who happens to be presenting the argument..


#350    Sakari

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think we are saying same thing N-W..  an open mind is the only way the truth will ever be discovered..  too many times we get distracted by the agendas of who happens to be presenting the argument..


When it comes to Bigfoot ( and other things ), an " open mind " is open so far that the brains of the believers have fallen out. Having a " open mind " when it is blatantly obvious something does not exist, is not going to make it exist in the future.

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#351    LDJ

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:21 PM

View PostSakari, on 14 June 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

When it comes to Bigfoot ( and other things ), an " open mind " is open so far that the brains of the believers have fallen out. Having a " open mind " when it is blatantly obvious something does not exist, is not going to make it exist in the future.

Really?  Think about what you just said..  you haven't got a clue whether or not Bigfoot exists..  yet your mind is closed to the possibility..  foolish does not quite describe your position..


#352    Sakari

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:03 PM

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

you haven't got a clue whether or not Bigfoot exists..  .

Uhm, no....I have a ton of " clues " that Bigfoot does not exist.

I used to think he did ( or she ), but after actually studying things, like biology, habitat, breeding populations ( biology ), etc,etc,etc....And not counting on just TV, Bigfoot books, and the internet ( although this site sure taught me a lot of things ) , I know they do not, and have not existed.

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#353    legendarycryptids

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:39 PM

According to evolution theories, we branched off several times before becoming modern humans, as we spread out around the globe. This is proven by looking at DNA markers tracing modern human back to Africa some 200,000 years ago. With the number of times modern humans split off into different groups, it's not unreasonable to think one group chose a method of self-isolation to survive the odds against other human species. Given this concept, it is certainly plausible for Bigfoot to exist out there. It's most certainly interesting how everything described about Bigfoot similarily resembles that of ancient hunter-gatherer men.


#354    S2F

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:04 PM

View PostSakari, on 14 June 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Uhm, no....I have a ton of " clues " that Bigfoot does not exist.

I used to think he did ( or she ), but after actually studying things, like biology, habitat, breeding populations ( biology ), etc,etc,etc....And not counting on just TV, Bigfoot books, and the internet ( although this site sure taught me a lot of things ) , I know they do not, and have not existed.

I began my interest in Bigfoot more or less on the fence. I thought it was an intriguing possibility but the more I discussed, the more I researched and the more I learned the less I believed that Bigfoot was real. If someone really digs in to the Bigfoot myth and utilizes what we know about biology, ecology, animal behavior, primatology along with a host of other academia there really isn't any other reasonable conclusion to be drawn.

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#355    Q-C

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:10 PM

View Postlegendarycryptids, on 14 June 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

According to evolution theories, we branched off several times before becoming modern humans, as we spread out around the globe. This is proven by looking at DNA markers tracing modern human back to Africa some 200,000 years ago. With the number of times modern humans split off into different groups, it's not unreasonable to think one group chose a method of self-isolation to survive the odds against other human species. Given this concept, it is certainly plausible for Bigfoot to exist out there. It's most certainly interesting how everything described about Bigfoot similarily resembles that of ancient hunter-gatherer men.

bolding mine, QC

There's a whole lot of descriptions of bigfoot that don't.  

Self-isolation? We've got thousands of encounters spread across thousands of miles. They migrate, follow paths, game trails, roads. Like toys and candy and even interact with us.

They are curious about us. How many years before curiosity turns into a solid verified encounter? Apparently tens of thousands.

They choose to play hide and seek among us all this time? But remove all evidence of such proximity.

Bigfoot is in the eye of the beholder

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#356    Sakari

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:26 PM

View Postlegendarycryptids, on 14 June 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

According to evolution theories, we branched off several times before becoming modern humans, as we spread out around the globe. This is proven by looking at DNA markers tracing modern human back to Africa some 200,000 years ago. With the number of times modern humans split off into different groups, it's not unreasonable to think one group chose a method of self-isolation to survive the odds against other human species. Given this concept, it is certainly plausible for Bigfoot to exist out there. It's most certainly interesting how everything described about Bigfoot similarily resembles that of ancient hunter-gatherer men.


And here we go......

The debate starts all over again.....( even though all of the information is on this forum, in the past topics )




Posted Image





Edited by Sakari, 14 June 2014 - 09:28 PM.

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#357    Swede

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:46 PM

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Oh hell Swede..  thank god you're here..  such objectivity and illumination as I've never been privileged to witness previously..  I have no doubt that your application to Mensa will be approved at any moment..  we're all behind ya' bud..

Odd. Evasion and diversion are not generally considered to be equatable to credible documentation.

For example; you stated that the wholly undocumented "species" under discussion is (purportedly) "far more savvy than given credit" (LDJ #325). Could one then presume that you have at hand the credible documentation to support this statement? If so, providing said documentation would be an asset to your own credibility and the viability of your position.

Edit: Typo.

Edited by Swede, 14 June 2014 - 09:49 PM.


#358    Sakari

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:00 PM

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Oh hell Swede..  thank god you're here..  such objectivity and illumination as I've never been privileged to witness previously..  I have no doubt that your application to Mensa will be approved at any moment..  we're all behind ya' bud..

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Really?  Think about what you just said..  you haven't got a clue whether or not Bigfoot exists..  yet your mind is closed to the possibility..  foolish does not quite describe your position..



Normally, I would say welcome to UM........

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#359    Night Walker

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 12:31 AM

View PostLDJ, on 14 June 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I think we are saying same thing N-W..  an open mind is the only way the truth will ever be discovered..  too many times we get distracted by the agendas of who happens to be presenting the argument..

I'm not sure that we are saying the same thing:

If Bigfoot exists as an undiscovered species then only objective evidence is the only way to that truth. However the objective evidence for Bigfoot (ie fakes and misidentifications) reveals that something else is going on...

If Bigfoot exists as an imaginary creature within a cultural context then an open mind (ie a willingness to entertain new ideas) can ultimately only assist in appreciating that truth...

Because Bigfoot is, at best, a subjective "experience" which is not supported by its own objective evidence then anyone (including ourselves) who is presenting a particular Bigfoot argument is also promoting their particular Bigfoot agenda. That is not necessarily a bad thing but the danger of distraction arises when we fail to adequately question that which we already suppose to be true...

Posted Image Yes! Canada's most fearsome predator. The Kodiak Marmoset – it's the world's largest smallest primate. "My God! He's killing us..."

The Yowie-ocalypse is upon us...

#360    LDJ

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 04:03 AM

View PostSakari, on 14 June 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Uhm, no....I have a ton of " clues " that Bigfoot does not exist.

I used to think he did ( or she ), but after actually studying things, like biology, habitat, breeding populations ( biology ), etc,etc,etc....And not counting on just TV, Bigfoot books, and the internet ( although this site sure taught me a lot of things ) , I know they do not, and have not existed.

Then I shall respect your belief and not waste anymore of your time.





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