Atlantis

[Agonaces of Susa]

Here's the real secret:

[questionmark]

Here's the real secret:

Ah yes...and who made that map if I may ask?

[Qoais]

Plato may have lived in the 300's but he is writing about a place that supposedly SANK 9000 years before Solon. Solon was 635-558 BC. About another 300 years added to Plato's life time. That is when Alantis SANK, so she had to have had a history of some sort BEFORE she sank, which is a lot older than 9000 years before Solon. Atlantis didn't just drop from the sky fully formed, unless of course you believe she was a UFO that did land and was marooned here.

[Agonaces of Susa]

Ah yes...and who made that map if I may ask?

It would be irrelevant if the tooth fairy made it.

It's truth is self-evident, even to a child.

And ad hominem fallacies only harm rather than help your case.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[questionmark]

Plato may have lived in the 300's but he is writing about a place that supposedly SANK 9000 years before Solon. Solon was 635-558 BC. About another 300 years added to Plato's life time. That is when Alantis SANK, so she had to have had a history of some sort BEFORE she sank, which is a lot older than 9000 years before Solon. Atlantis didn't just drop from the sky fully formed, unless of course you believe she was a UFO that did land and was marooned here.

And here comes the crux of the story... 10.000 BC a highly insular developed civilization? Even with trade and contact the others could not make it.

[Agonaces of Susa]

Plato may have lived in the 300's but he is writing about a place that supposedly SANK 9000 years before Solon. Solon was 635-558 BC. About another 300 years added to Plato's life time. That is when Alantis SANK, so she had to have had a history of some sort BEFORE she sank, which is a lot older than 9000 years before Solon. Atlantis didn't just drop from the sky fully formed, unless of course you believe she was a UFO that did land and was marooned here.

We have archaeological evidence from 9,500 B.C.

Here's an Egyptian sphinx dated to 9,500 B.C., not incidentally the exact same date as Atlantis.

"Look at this. It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt." -- Klaus Schmidt, archaeologist, April 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/23/archaeology.turkey

[questionmark]

We have archaeological evidence from 9,500 B.C.

Here's an Egyptian sphinx dated to 9,500 B.C., not incidentally the exact same date as Atlantis.

"Look at this. It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt." -- Klaus Schmidt, archaeologist, April 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/23/archaeology.turkey

Ah, good old Göbekli Tepe. Do you know what kind of civilization you are talking about?

[Agonaces of Susa]

Ah, good old Göbekli Tepe. Do you know what kind of civilization you are talking about?

The one with the sphinx in it that's thousands of years older than Khafra?

Edited November 16, 2009 by Agonaces of Susa

[questionmark]

The one with the sphinx in it?

Yep, but that "Sphinx"does not resemble the one in Giza very much:

as you see...it took 600 year of civilization to get to the "Other one"

Edited November 16, 2009 by questionmark

[Qoais]

This does not mean the people who made these carvings were from Atlantis.

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3487

I had a discussion about these carvings several years ago with some folks who were adamant Urantia Book fans. They said this was from the original Garden of Eden. Who's correct?

[Agonaces of Susa]

Yep, but that "Sphinx"does not resemble the one in Giza very much:

as you see...it took 600 year of civilization to get to the "Other one"

That's not a sphinx...

The sphinx is half man half lion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/23/archaeology.turkey

"Look at this", he said, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt.

[questionmark]

This does not mean the people who made these carvings were from Atlantis.

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3487

I had a discussion about these carvings several years ago with some folks who were adamant Urantia Book fans. They said this was from the original Garden of Eden. Who's correct?

Neither, Göbliki is most probably the place where organized religion was discovered (or should I say invented?). But that way back in the neolithic. It could be that due to a schism the place was abandoned and "buried" by its last occupants. Or , more plausible, the living conditions were made impossible due to the increasing population and the place was abandoned, but first the temple was buried under a mound, just as high dignitaries of the time were buried.

[questionmark]

That's not a sphinx...

The sphinx is half man half lion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/apr/23/archaeology.turkey

OOps, then Schmidt, quoted in the article you linked must be wrong. He identifies that thing as Sphinx. Sorry...there must be none at Göbliki.

[Agonaces of Susa]

OOps, then Schmidt, quoted in the article you linked must be wrong. He identifies that thing as Sphinx. Sorry...there must be none at Göbliki.

I'm pretty sure the professional archaeologist on site knows more about the subject than you do.

[questionmark]

I'm pretty sure the professional archaeologist on site knows more about the subject than you do.

Ok, then the picture got labeled wrong

[Qoais]

Are there any pictures of this Sphinx?

[lakeview rud]

Have they verified the dating scientifically (on gobekli)? I ask that because generally any attempt to establish an organized culture prior to Sumeria tends to get the sh** pounded out of it by the orthodox scholars. For example the Okinawan underwater pyramid was first described as a completely natural formation, then it went to being natural with people doing some carvings on it, then it went from being 10,000 years old (because it was underwater) to being only 2000 years old. I understand that its tough to prove out things that old but its hard to believe that Sumeria and Egypt just blossomed. Best place to look for 10,000 year old civilizations or at least structures would be at sea levels of the Ice Age so maybe 200 feet below sea level?

[Qoais]

I have been trying to find a way to contact the director of the dig - Vecihi Ozkaya - but I'm not having much luck. QM, where do you find it that this little animal thingy is a Sphinx? Where does Schmidt say that this is it specifically?

[questionmark]

Are there any pictures of this Sphinx?

The only one I could find labeled as such is the lion above. There is no sphinx, it was a figure of speech by Schmidt taken out of context that the whole fringe pounced on. The earliest Sphinxes we know are Babylonian...6000 years later.

[Qoais]

We have archaeological evidence from 9,500 B.C.

Of what? Triremes? No. Plato said Atlantis sunk 9000 years before Solon. So about 11,500 years ago.

Atlantis was supposedly out in the Atlantic Ocean.

Atlantis supposedly had huge ships - Triremes - in her harbours before she sank, from all other countries bringing her goods.

WHAT other countries? There weren't any other countries per se 11,500 years ago and there sure weren't any cultures with Triremes 11,500 years ago.

To get to Atlantis or for them to get to the mainland, they would have had to have ships that could stand the constant battering of the ocean, back and forth, to do trade. Where is the evidence for anyone, anywhere at the time, having such ships?

Edited November 17, 2009 by Qoais

[questionmark]

Have they verified the dating scientifically (on gobekli)? I ask that because generally any attempt to establish an organized culture prior to Sumeria tends to get the sh** pounded out of it by the orthodox scholars. For example the Okinawan underwater pyramid was first described as a completely natural formation, then it went to being natural with people doing some carvings on it, then it went from being 10,000 years old (because it was underwater) to being only 2000 years old. I understand that its tough to prove out things that old but its hard to believe that Sumeria and Egypt just blossomed. Best place to look for 10,000 year old civilizations or at least structures would be at sea levels of the Ice Age so maybe 200 feet below sea level?

Göbekli is pretty accurately dated, give or take 1000 years. The most amazing thing is the instruments used to built that temple. It took the excavation team a long time to figure it out but at the end they could reproduce it. That whole thing was built with stone age tools.

On the French/German TV channel Arte they had a very interesting documentation about it a few months back with Schmidt making a demonstration and showing some unfinished pieces that have been abandoned.

[questionmark]

I have been trying to find a way to contact the director of the dig - Vecihi Ozkaya - but I'm not having much luck. QM, where do you find it that this little animal thingy is a Sphinx? Where does Schmidt say that this is it specifically?

I PMd his official e-mail to you

[Qoais]

I PMd his official e-mail to you

I've sent one off to him, thanks, we'll just have to wait and see what he says. IF HE says anything!!

[+DieChecker]

It doesn't really matter what people think. The historical record says that the Atlantean Empire in Antarctica had subjugated all of North Africa as far East as Egypt and even into Europe.

I suppose it only matters what YOU think? Got a little Hitler complex going on in your head eh?

"... the men of Atlantis [Antarctica] had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia." -- Plato, Timaeus, 360 B.C.

You are ruining the quote with your self placed Antarctica definition.

You've obviously never read the Timaeus because Atlantis was bigger than Libya (North Africa) and Asia (the Middle East) combined, in other words Antarctica.

"... the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together." -- Plato, Timaeus, 360 B.C.

If you take the middle east "Asia" to be 1500 miles by 1500 miles and "Libya" to be the same, then that adds up to about 4 million square miles. Greenland is actually only a million square miles, but the sea ice could make it seem a lot bigger. Ancient geographers where about as acurrate as a blind man drawing the Olympic Rings. And Greenland is more hospitable and has a history of actual human occupation going back probably five to ten thousand years. (Inuit)

1. The 360 B.C. description of Atlantis is a description of Antarctica.

"... in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent." -- Plato, Timaeus, 360 B.C.

Going from this quote the island is IN FRONT of the Pillars of Heracles. How is Antarctica in front of the Pillars of Heracles. Nothing is actully in Front of the pillars till you reach North America. Excepting some small islands like Bermuda and the Canary Islands.

[Qoais]

IN FRONT OF GIBRALTAR - STRAIGHT ACROSS THE POND IS WASHINGTON DC

Edited November 17, 2009 by Qoais