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Egypt Military Commit a Massacre


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#16    acidhead

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:45 AM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 08 July 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

because unfortunatly my friend people are looking in eyesight of racisim these days
they don't see human beings anymore .. they see christians , muslims , etc etc
and i think that's clear in some comments by some people as you can see

exactly... social engineering...  Collectivism.... see it a lot on these boards and in real life... especially from the religious folk and self professed atheists

Edited by acidhead, 09 July 2013 - 05:46 AM.

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#17    Yamato

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostSakari, on 08 July 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Who said that?

I said terrorists.....Unless you consider Muslims terrorists.
Zaphod called them "Islamic extremists" based on what he wants to believe, which is what you believe, which is one side's take on two conflicting reports.  Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu described this as a massacre.  These were demonstrators as far as we know.   What evidence do you have to say they're "terrorists"?     Suddenly everyone in Egypt who supports the MB is a terrorist?  Really?

This reaction from you and others like Zaphod really is ridiculous.  People in the street, even if they are sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood, suddenly deserve to be shot in cold blood because they're "Al Qaeda"?   And this from the guy who can't figure out why it's a good idea to stop extorting American money to pay sweetheart Morsi's MB?   He thinks that bloodshed in the streets is a great idea, but can't understand the concept of not financing who he considers terrorists?  That's some grade-A two-faced political opinion right there.






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"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#18    and then

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:27 AM

View PostYamato, on 09 July 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Zaphod called them "Islamic extremists" based on what he wants to believe, which is what you believe, which is one side's take on two conflicting reports.  Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu described this as a massacre.  These were demonstrators as far as we know.   What evidence do you have to say they're "terrorists"? Suddenly everyone in Egypt who supports the MB is a terrorist?  Really?

This reaction from you and others like Zaphod really is ridiculous.  People in the street, even if they are sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood, suddenly deserve to be shot in cold blood because they're "Al Qaeda"?   And this from the guy who can't figure out why it's a good idea to stop extorting American money to pay sweetheart Morsi's MB?   He thinks that bloodshed in the streets is a great idea, but can't understand the concept of not financing who he considers terrorists?  That's some grade-A two-faced political opinion right there.





There are also reports from witnesses that some of the protesters were shooting and throwing molotovs.  Who can say who is telling the truth?

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#19    Yamato

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:42 AM

View Postand then, on 09 July 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

There are also reports from witnesses that some of the protesters were shooting and throwing molotovs.  Who can say who is telling the truth?
Exactly.  So therefore we don't jump to conclusions that they're "Al Qaeda terrorists", nor do we like the posts of other people who say they are.  :angry:

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#20    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:45 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 09 July 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

Seriously Knight, I must question your sources of information. There are records of the exact opposite of these flattering claims (in bold)
- One of Mursi's first actions was to have MB members or loyalists replace the editers-in-chief "of each of the fifty state-owned publications, which include the most-widely distributed newspaper in Egypt, Al-Ahram, as well as several other widely-read ones, including Al-Akhbar, Al-Akhbar Al-Youm, and Al-Gomhoreya"
-Two private newspapers were shut down, the printed Egypt independent met the same fate in April 2013

-"
censorship has taken the form of harassment and criminal charges. The archaic crime of "insulting the President" was most famously used by Mubarak in 2007 against four of the most popular opposition newspaper editors. Unfortunately, it is a crime that is being utilised with great vigour under President Morsi. In October, Tawfik Okasha, an outspoken talk show host and long-time opposition figure was sentenced to four months jail time for this crime. The proceedings against him showed the extent to which freedom of speech would be violated in order to protect the presidency from criticism; it was claimed: "Morsi is the President of all Egyptians and insulting him is like insulting the whole nation." Islam Afifi, editor-in-chief of independent newspaper Al-Dostor, also faced charges of the same crime. On Tuesday 11 December, in conjunction with massive protests nationwide opposing the constitution, a variety of newspapers refused to print their daily editions, in protest against the continuous violations of their freedoms of speech and expression." Do you remeber the recent case of Bassem Youssef 'Egypt's Jon Stewart'?

-As for TV channels: "In November, the privately-owned Dream television channels, which had several anti-Islamist shows, were shut down for a week due to unclear licensing problems. More recently, popular and widely-watched nighttime TV presenter Amr Adeeb was forced to take a break from his show, following a particularly critical program in which he called Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood “failures.”  Starting in December, the frequency and level of government interference with the media and its figures has increased. Another well-known host, Mahmoud Saad, was questioned by police for three hours for the now oft-used charge of "insulting the President" while presenting his program. Khairy Ramadan, presenter of popular show "Momken," announced his resignation on air for not being allowed to interview that night’s guest, the Nasserist former presidential candidate Hamdeen Sabbahi. It later became apparent that government interference forced the television channel’s administration to deny Sabbahi the chance to appear on air."


In one of his last speeches, Mursi threatened the owners of such channels as CTV, Dream, ONTV...steps were being prepared for their closure.

- The Media Production City was besieged for a long period by "Hazemoun" (the same group that also besieged the Supreme Constitutional court) " been camped outside the Media Production City, home of the largest independent television studios, in attempts to strike fear in the hearts of presenters inside and in the visiting guests outside. The hard-line Islamist leader of the sit-in, Hazem Salah Abu Ismail, had no problems pointing out exactly what drove his demonstrations; on his Facebook page, he claimed: “the media has become biased against Islamists.” It is a simple but striking sentiment, because it shows that any form of criticism-- insulting, degrading, or otherwise-- is not acceptable. Several members of staff have reportedly been assaulted, while searches of employees are being conducted by the group." http://www.jadaliyya...d-media-freedom


Al Jazeera was closed mainly because of the video they broadcast of Mursi giving an inflammatory speech which was recorded before his house arrest. They have been too biased also in all of their coverage. The Islamic channels had been continuously broadcasting what can not be qualified as anything but hate speech. Their closure was a precaution for their incitment of violence against the army, Mursi's opponents, Christians, and even Shiites. Such hate speech led to the murder of 4 Shiites recently.

Though I am happily surprised with your sudden interest in the events in Egypt, I urge you to research your claims more rigorously, or at least try to be a tad more objective.



edited : patchy font!

how many times reporters were arrested while morsi in charge .. i reckon few times " for insulting president "
now answer me please ? how many time they were released by mohammad morsi orders ? every single time

i take my sources from the two famous arabic news channels " alarabya and aljazeera "
these two that egyptian people in first revolution raised their signmature and thanked them
you remember that ? now suddenly they're conspired against egypt ?
and offical and non-offical egypt channels who didn't exist back then now hold the truth ?

there was even confessions of the medics  who were on site and how the military opened fire
there is also video of military rat on the roof shooting people
that's why i told you we can play videos and pictures games
but it's meaningless

and your basically admitting that those channels " who's counted with opposition " had anti-islamic shows
and you telling me on the other side .. it's not islamic - secular struggle ?
isn't that bit two different unmatched prospectives ?

morsi speech before his hour of arrest is inflammatory ??
and those channels of opposition who simply attacking muslims " 90% of country popluation "
are not inflammatory ?????? come on be real

different between us .. i see both sides .. you see only one
i don't want you to think i am with morsi .. or with islamic brotherhood  : i don't like them
but when this spins into the same old pattern
secular-non-muslims banded together to force dictatorship and reek havoc in country oppressing muslims
that's what am against .. and that's what's going on in egypt

by the way .. have you missed the massive marches of support for morsi in other countries ?
why you think those people are out .. they are muslims for sure
because they know it's going to happen again dictator backed by secular to opress people
leading to armed resistance by the people " which i will support for sure "

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#21    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 11:52 AM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 09 July 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

You saw the dead children in picture stills or filmed in live video coverage? A picture circulating MB sites of two children was taken in Syria actually. You can google it. It is a crime to kill children anywhere, but to use their image for false political propaganda insults their memory. If it is the picture I have in mind, I cannot link it, it's too graphic. If not kindly pm me the link . Assuming it is correct (and I dont believe that) why would people take their children to demonstrate infront of army barracks despite repeated army warnings not to approach its bases, and when they themselves went with batons, helmets, make shift shields, shot guns, guns and grenades? Their chants for martyrdom mean that at least they expected trouble, or they planned for it, yet they take their children there? WHY?

As for the army's position, remember that they tried to avoid this situation by using their ultimatum to ALL parties, the MB refused thus forcing the hand of the army. Do you have any other options, other steps they could have taken in such circumstances? I condemn the killing of 52, but the army barracks were being attacked with fire arms. Blame the leaders of the MB, they are masters of deception.
i reckon because they didn't think the army would dig down so low and kill their own people
same reason we did that once and paid for it
i saw it on aljazeera mubasher but hey if you don't believe it we can scratch it out
it still won't be ok to kill 42 adults and claim they're terrorists
and tamarod claim muslims killed each other .. military say it was attacked
there is so much different claims from same side !

the military official story .. first .. it was attacked by terrorists and killed them
and then .. it said . some terrorist group attacked protestors and killed the

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#22    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

http://www.huffingto..._n_3564020.html

al nour party withdraw because of massacre againt islamist protestors

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#23    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 01:58 PM

Ban ki moon call for impartial investegation in the massacre

http://www.un.org/Ne...sm15160.doc.htm

lol and the military decide who investegate .. very impartial :D

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#24    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 02:04 PM

strong egypt party hold al-sisi responsble for the massacre

most of the recent updates : http://beforeitsnews...rs-2705144.html

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#25    and then

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:01 PM

At this point I'm wondering when either or both sides will decide to use Israel as a scapegoat.  It follows like day follows night.  Maybe they will have better sense....  My guess is that the Psalm 83 war is forming.  This war is when every neighbor that shares a border with Israel, confederate and attack - only to be soundly defeated - AGAIN...  Assad and the rebels, the Egyptian factions and possibly even the army eventually will be looking for a way to shift the focus onto battling an external foe:  
"Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world"

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#26    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

View Postand then, on 09 July 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

At this point I'm wondering when either or both sides will decide to use Israel as a scapegoat.  It follows like day follows night.  Maybe they will have better sense....  My guess is that the Psalm 83 war is forming.  This war is when every neighbor that shares a border with Israel, confederate and attack - only to be soundly defeated - AGAIN...  Assad and the rebels, the Egyptian factions and possibly even the army eventually will be looking for a way to shift the focus onto battling an external foe:  
"Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world"
man are you always so protective of israel ? jeez you seem to protective of it like it's a daughter of yours man
what does israel has to do with anything ?! come on stop it .. that's silly seriously
no one mentioned israel .. and every discussions no one ever does .. only you :P

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#27    meryt-tetisheri

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:27 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 09 July 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

i reckon because they didn't think the army would dig down so low and kill their own people
same reason we did that once and paid for it
i saw it on aljazeera mubasher but hey if you don't believe it we can scratch it out
it still won't be ok to kill 42 adults and claim they're terrorists
and tamarod claim muslims killed each other .. military say it was attacked
there is so much different claims from same side !

the military official story .. first .. it was attacked by terrorists and killed them
and then .. it said . some terrorist group attacked protestors and killed the

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 09 July 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

i reckon because they didn't think the army would dig down so low and kill their own people
same reason we did that once and paid for it
i saw it on aljazeera mubasher but hey if you don't believe it we can scratch it out
it still won't be ok to kill 42 adults and claim they're terrorists
and tamarod claim muslims killed each other .. military say it was attacked
there is so much different claims from same side !

the military official story .. first .. it was attacked by terrorists and killed them
and then .. it said . some terrorist group attacked protestors and killed the

In re posts # 20 & 21, you again avoided addressing the concrete examples of Mursi's harrassement of the media, yet you expect that he would be applauded when the journalist he persecuted were released. They were released because the evidence against them was so flimsy courts threw the cases out or judged in their favor. It is not that he didn't try. Another reason was the resulting local and international outcry. A ruler who sends his cronies to besiege the Constitutional court and the Media Production City for weeks on end while threatening to eliminate judges & journalists (eg Al Husseini, A. Adeeb, Lamiss Al Hadeedi...etc.) and stopping the police from protecting them can only be described as an autocrate and a dictator in the making.

Protestors rallied infront of army barracks chanting martyrdom, wearing helmets holding arms and shields, standing behind barricades assumed that that the situation is as begnine as a walk in the park and children may accompany them?  There were no children there, the picture you saw was from Syria, google it.  I am against the use of lethal power on demonstrators, and feel sorry for the loss of life, but the protesters are also partly responsible for attempting to provoke an army by attacking its barracks despite warning. That implanted terrorists or a faction would attack protesters for a political score happened before in the Camel incident, Tahrir, in Port Said stadium, in front of Itehadeyya, in Moqattam...it is not unprecedented, which leaves the door open for all possibilities. The events in Salah Salem will be investigated by a juridical committee.

Try to follow Egyptian media, read what Egyptians are chattering about on their Fb and twitter,  read the readers' comments to get a feel of what Egyptians are saying. You cant get a clear picture by depending on Saudi & Qatari news outlets.

I tire of reiterating the difference between Muslim and Islamist. Tamarod are also Muslim. Try to be a bit more objective and less sarcastic, personal attacks do not push forward ideas in a debate, certainly not with me.


#28    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:40 PM

View Postmeryt-tetisheri, on 09 July 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

In re posts # 20 & 21, you again avoided addressing the concrete examples of Mursi's harrassement of the media, yet you expect that he would be applauded when the journalist he persecuted were released. They were released because the evidence against them was so flimsy courts threw the cases out or judged in their favor. It is not that he didn't try. Another reason was the resulting local and international outcry. A ruler who sends his cronies to besiege the Constitutional court and the Media Production City for weeks on end while threatening to eliminate judges & journalists (eg Al Husseini, A. Adeeb, Lamiss Al Hadeedi...etc.) and stopping the police from protecting them can only be described as an autocrate and a dictator in the making.

Protestors rallied infront of army barracks chanting martyrdom, wearing helmets holding arms and shields, standing behind barricades assumed that that the situation is as begnine as a walk in the park and children may accompany them?  There were no children there, the picture you saw was from Syria, google it.  I am against the use of lethal power on demonstrators, and feel sorry for the loss of life, but the protesters are also partly responsible for attempting to provoke an army by attacking its barracks despite warning. That implanted terrorists or a faction would attack protesters for a political score happened before in the Camel incident, Tahrir, in Port Said stadium, in front of Itehadeyya, in Moqattam...it is not unprecedented, which leaves the door open for all possibilities. The events in Salah Salem will be investigated by a juridical committee.

Try to follow Egyptian media, read what Egyptians are chattering about on their Fb and twitter,  read the readers' comments to get a feel of what Egyptians are saying. You cant get a clear picture by depending on Saudi & Qatari news outlets.

I tire of reiterating the difference between Muslim and Islamist. Tamarod are also Muslim. Try to be a bit more objective and less sarcastic, personal attacks do not push forward ideas in a debate, certainly not with me.
yeah you're right .. it's the protestors fault
they hit the army's bullets with their heads .. what a cruel protestors

edited : by the way sorry if you consider my point view a personal attack it's not meant to be this way
am sarcastic because what happened here . is happening in egypt
and some people siding with dictator army to crush their opposition
i find that sarcastic and hopefully won't be allowed

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 09 July 2013 - 04:42 PM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#29    keithisco

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:31 PM

No massacre here... the MB were well armed so what do they do? They go to a Military Compound and start shooting.. Idiots.

The fact is that Morsi and the Moslem Brotherhood in support, started to change the Constitution of Egypt to make it more in line with "Islamic" doctrine. It would not be long before Shariah became the highest Law in the land.

The Army, for their part, did not accept this Sea Change in what the MB said during the Election campaign, and then what they tried to enforce after their election. The MB ran a brilliant subterfuge to get elected, but the majority of Egypt, supported by the Army, were so angered with the attemptsto turn it into an Islamic state that you had up to 30 MILLION protesters in the street.

There is NO Islamic State that respects its citizens, there is NO Islamic State that does not marginalise and reduce a womans status to that of a "Breeder". What it really come down to is that Islam will always promote men (even if they are mental dwarfs) over those women who are truly brilliant!! Think of Marie Curie for example, were she in a Muslim Marriage then she would have been whipped, stripped and Stoned to death if she did not do what her husband told her to do.

Thank God that Western social development had got past the Religious Zealots of Christian and Muslim Clerics.

You might ask whether I despise Islam, well...  because it excludes the massive intellects of 50% of its population (women), because its founder married a 9 yr old baby - girl, then maybe I do.... If any man 60 years old, said he will marry my daughter when she is 9yrs old then there is only one outcome, and it would not be good for the 60 year old :td:


#30    keithisco

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 05:47 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 09 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

yeah you're right .. it's the protestors fault
they hit the army's bullets with their heads .. what a cruel protestors

edited : by the way sorry if you consider my point view a personal attack it's not meant to be this way
am sarcastic because what happened here . is happening in egypt
and some people siding with dictator army to crush their opposition
i find that sarcastic and hopefully won't be allowed

Not before the protesters started shooting at the Army Garrison. Are they completely stupid?

No children involved, it is quite simple to Google those pictures released to find out that they are from 12 months ago and in Syria. Google AP, UPI, REUTERS etc and you will find those same pictures.

You still try to call the Military "Dictators", but the one thing that is absolutely clear here, is that the Military do not want Political Power. They want this responsibility to fall to an elected Government, BUT ONE THAT DOES NOT TURN THE STATE INTO A THEOCRATIC STATE.

Will Islam never learn? Your time is in the past, women are to be treated as equals or more, those Fundamentalists in Islam are just those men who are basically stupid, ignorant, or incapable of learning outside of the box, and scared that their wives are actually much more clever than their husbands.

Wake up Islam!! The west will be totally free of your Oil very soon, Shale and renewable energy will return you to the desert with no buyers from the western, truly free, nations.  When this happens, then you should prepare yourselves for a battle of the mind and soul as your women (slaves) see a new hope, and a new horizon to strive for.IMO





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