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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3796    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:03 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 14 April 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Thanks! just read Lancelot wedded Guinevere in May...

http://en.wikipedia....lls_of_the_King

Posted Image


For thus it chanced one morn when all the court,
Green-suited, but with plumes that mocked the may,
Had been, their wont, a-maying and returned,
That Modred still in green, all ear and eye,
Climbed to the high top of the garden-wall
To spy some secret scandal if he might,


Idylls of the King : Guinevere, Alfred Lord Tennyson 1859

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day




Posted Image



And that is perhaps the reason for the word Holiday, a (w)holy day for conception? According to IB's logic within the rot sound system, when you put P (pole) into one ring O, you get Q, which stands for Quadrat, the symbol for mathematics, thus the order O, P, Q... in the Alphabet.

Posted Image


Maibaum Ostfriesland
http://en.wikipedia....riesland967.jpg




Regards,

Mario Dantas

Ah sorry , it looks like it was M Danzas post not your Abe , said all the court had to wear green . just spring though .


#3797    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 04:55 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 April 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

A bit more about this KRODO (for those who lost it, it is connected with the OLB "KRODER" - wheelbarrow - , with the 6-spoked Yule wheel and time).

What's interesting is that no one has a real idea where the word KRODO came from, which happens to be the case for the Dutch word "kruid" (herb) or the German word "kraut"....

Krodo carries a basket or something filled with herbs (they say flowers, but I can't see that in the drawings).

He stands for renewal (spring?), rebirth, time, cycle, the road of life?

What did they say about Khidr?  "As the eternally youthful keeper of the wellspring he rejuvenated people and animals and plants ... and covered the earth in springtime with fresh  greenness "

But what's that fish doing under Krodo's feet....?  A possible answer comes from the interpretation of Khidr's symbology, Khidr who is also standing on a fish:

In western Asia, Moslem or Hindu symbolic art shows the Saint, Al Khizr, dressed in a green coat being carried on top of the water by a fish which conveys him over the river of life.

http://wtchdktr.live...al.com/325.html
http://kataragama.org/islamic.htm

Here Khidr is seen standing on a fish (Jesus) crossing the river of life.

http://www.thelostword.dk/index3.htm

From a German site I linked to loooong ago:

Fisch
Das Element Wasser, Nahrung und die späteren christlichen Werte unserer Gesellschaft

fish
The element of water, food and the later Christian values ​​of our society


http://www.woick-wan.../crodo_plan.htm




Now about that "kruid" or "Kraut":


J. de Vries (1971), Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek

krodde 2 znw. v. naam voor ‘herik, sinapis arvensis’ (Gron. Friesl. oostel. Nl., West-Friesland, Zuid-Holland), ook voor perzikkruid, polygonum persicaria (Groningen, Oost-Drente, West-Friesland). Gaat men uit van een grondvorm *krŭðjō, dan kan men het woord verbinden met *krūða, waarvoor zie: kruid.

J. de Vries (1971), Dutch Etymological Dictionary

krodde 2 noun. (female). name for 'wild mustard, Sinapis arvensis' (Groningen Friesland. eastern NL., Westfriesland, South Holland), also for redshank, polygonum persicaria (Groningen, eastern Drenthe, Westfriesland). Assuming a basic form * krŭðjō, one can connect the word with * krūða,  see: kruid


http://www.etymologi...efwoord/krodde2



J. de Vries (1971), Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek

kruid znw. o., mnl. cruut o. ‘kruid, gewas, eetbare plant, specerij, geneeskrachtige plant’, os. krūd ‘onkruid’, ohd. chrūt (nhd. kraut) ‘klein bladgewas, groente, kool’, laat-ofri. krūd. — Het is bedenkelijk voor een woord, dat op een zo beperkt gebied voorkomt, aanknopingen in het idg. te zoeken (...)
In een geval als dit kan men herkomst uit een substraattaal overwegen

J. de Vries (1971), Dutch Etymological Dictionary

kruid noun. (neuter, male). cruut (neuter) 'herb, plant, edible plants, spices, medicinal plants, Old Saxon krūd' weeds', Old High German chrūt (New High German kraut) 'small leaf crop, vegetable, cabbage', late Old Frisian krūd. - It is questionable to look for connections in Indo-germanic for a word that occurs in such a limited area (...)
In a case like this one can consider a substrate language as an origin


http://www.etymologi...trefwoord/kruid

.

As I was logging off everything last night I actually did spot krud in the Frisian Dictionary but thought I'd keep it for today. It has herb, gunpowder, interesting difference of things - anyway, herb - yes I thought of the flowers in his hand and immediately thought there's his fertility symbol and the ' herb'  is probably the meaning of his name, indicating a true fertility God, linked with the wheel of the year, time, seasons.

krð-d

1, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Kraut, Schießpulver; ne. herb, gunpowder; Vw.: s.

bus-s-a-; Hw.: vgl. as. krðd*, ahd. krðt; E.: germ. *krðda-, *krðdam, st. N. (a),

Kraut; s. idg. *gÝeru-, Sb., Stange, Spieß (M.) (1), Pokorny 479; W.: saterl. kruwd;

W.: nnordfries. krüd; L.: Hh 61a, Hh 165, Rh 879b

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 April 2013 - 05:06 AM.

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#3798    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:01 AM

When I was looking at paintings I recalled I was intrigued by Poussins works, so had a quick look and found this one, Numa Pompilius and Egeria the nymph. I am convinced that Egeria was a probable Fryan in Krekaland and her sacred books were the laws the vestal Virgins held sacred. Even in paintings they don't shy away from her non-Mediterranean looks...

Posted Image

http://en.wikipedia....ussin_paintings (Excellent viewing)

I'll repeat it again in case anyone missed it:

In this myth she is shown as counselor and guide to King Numa in the establishment of the original framework of laws and rituals of Rome, and in this role she is somehow uniquely in Roman mythology associated with "sacred books"; Numa (Latin "numen" designates "the expressed will of a deity"[4]) is reputed to have written down the teachings of Egeria in "sacred books" that he made bury with him; when some chance accident brought them back to light some 400 years later, they were deemed by the Senate inappropriate for disclosure to the people and destroyed by their order;[5] what made them inappropriate was certainly of "political" nature but apparently has not been handed down by Valerius Antias, the source that Plutarch was using.Dionysius of Halicarnassus hints that they were actually kept as a very close secret by the Pontifices
http://en.wikipedia....eria_(mythology)

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#3799    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 26 April 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

And a weird star formation in the sky  .
Yes, thats the constellation Corona, that becomes Ariadne's crown, a gift from Bacchus/Dionysus. The very circular wheel shape is the point I'm making indeed.

The figure of Oannes may have had an association with Krodo, as a bringer of civilisation, as such, teaching wisdom and the arts.

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 April 2013 - 05:12 AM.

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#3800    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:44 AM

Krodo is holding a wheel. The one who holds a wheel is Aion.

Posted Image

Martianus Capella (5th century AD) identified Aion with Cronus (Latin Saturnus), whose name caused him to be theologically conflated with Chronus ("Time"), in the way that the Greek ruler of the underworld Plouton (Pluto) was conflated with Ploutos (Plutus, "Wealth"). Martianus presents Cronus-Aion as the consort of Rhea (Latin Ops) as identified with Physis.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Aion_(deity)

All these concepts are mixed up in different Gods, names mix and change, concepts mix and change - but I do think Krodo holds some very old iconology that has got lost within his new persona. A bit like Santa. The OLB mentions no Krodo, only the Kroder.

kroder as wheelbarrow I can't find much on but Abe showed it I think or at least says it means it, where do you find this reference Abe?

If it's connected to Green, May, fertility, it could be seasonal reference in the term herb, cabbage, greenery, spring cults, the ones the non-pagans REALLY didn't like.

The 3 Jul wheels make up the Kroder, what is it then?

seasons, wheel, herb, circle of time? What could that word be translated to in that sentence if not kroder, anyone?

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 April 2013 - 05:49 AM.

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#3801    Abramelin

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:04 AM

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm, thaet is thene Kroder thêr êvg mith thaet jol mot ommehlâpa.

Wat hier boven staat zijn de tekenen van het Jol. Dat is het eerste ("voormeeste") zinnebeeld Wr-alda's, ook van de aanvang of begin, waaruit tijd kwam, dat is de Kroder die eeuwig met het jol moet omlopen.

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul.

=

Lik blixen fjur gvng et o-era aelanda, aend êr thes Kroders jol ênis omhlâpen hêde,

The news flew through the land like lightning, and before the carrier’s wheel had made one revolution
(Btw: Sandbach says "land", but it should be "island"; it's about Britain)


Kroder = wheelbarrow, but also "kruier" or 'carrier', 'porter'



CRUDER

Woordsoort: znw(m.)

Modern lemma: kruier
znw. m. Van cruden, 1e Art.; hetzelfde als ndl. kruier.
+↪Hij die vrachten vervoert, vooral met een handkar of duwwagen. Gewoonlijk in het Mnl. crode (crude-, kerde-) wagencrudere geheeten. Hetzelfde als crudewagenare; z. ald. en vgl. De Vigne, Moeurs et Usages des Corpor. de Mêtiers bl. 145.
Aanm.
Over een ander cruder, dat in het Mnl. kan bestaan hebben, nl. van cruden, afgeleid van cruut, in den zin van wieden, dus wieder, zie de Aanm. bij cruden, 2de Art., en vgl. Grimm 5, 2114 op krauter, kräuter; Lexer op kruter (lat. herbarius).


CRUDER

noun

Modern lemma: kruier (porter)
noun/male From cruden; same as Dutch kruier
+- He who transports loads. especially with a handcart or pushcart. Usually called crode (crude-, kerde- ) wagencrudere in Middle Dutch. Same as crudewagenare (...)

Note
There's another cruder that could have existed in Middle Dutch, and it's derived from cruut (kruid, herb), in the sense of weeding, so weeder
(...)


http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...r=HTML&id=24188

Btw, Jan de Vries ((1971, Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek) and N.van Wijk ((1936 [1912]), Franck's Etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal) mention the Frisian (fri.) "kroade", meaning "wheelbarrow" :

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/kruien

See also:
http://www.wnt.inl.n...db=WFT&id=54567

I'm not going to translate all that, but you'll see the word "kruiwagen", wheelbarrow.

The only related word in English is:

crowd (v.)
Old English crudan "to press, crush." Cognate with Middle Dutch cruden "to press, push," Middle High German kroten "to press, oppress," Norwegian kryda "to crowd."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 April 2013 - 07:26 AM.


#3802    The Puzzler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Hwat hyr boppa staet send thi têkna fon thaet jol. Thaet is thaet forma sinnebild Wr.aldas, âk fon t-anfang jeftha-t bijin, wêrut tid kêm, thaet is thene Kroder thêr êvg mith thaet jol mot ommehlâpa.

Wat hier boven staat zijn de tekenen van het Jol. Dat is het eerste ("voormeeste") zinnebeeld Wr-alda's, ook van de aanvang of begin, waaruit tijd kwam, dat is de Kroder die eeuwig met het jol moet omlopen.

What appears at the top is the signs of the Juul—that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda, also of the origin or beginning from which Time is derived; this is the Kroder, which must always go round with the Juul.

=

Lik blixen fjur gvng et o-era aelanda, aend êr thes Kroders jol ênis omhlâpen hêde,

The news flew through the land like lightning, and before the carrier’s wheel had made one revolution
(Btw: Sandbach says "land", but it should be "island"; it's about Britain)


Kroder = wheelbarrow, but also "kruier" or 'carrier', 'porter'



CRUDER

Woordsoort: znw(m.)

Modern lemma: kruier
znw. m. Van cruden, 1e Art.; hetzelfde als ndl. kruier.
+↪Hij die vrachten vervoert, vooral met een handkar of duwwagen. Gewoonlijk in het Mnl. crode (crude-, kerde-) wagencrudere geheeten. Hetzelfde als crudewagenare; z. ald. en vgl. De Vigne, Moeurs et Usages des Corpor. de Mêtiers bl. 145.
Aanm.
Over een ander cruder, dat in het Mnl. kan bestaan hebben, nl. van cruden, afgeleid van cruut, in den zin van wieden, dus wieder, zie de Aanm. bij cruden, 2de Art., en vgl. Grimm 5, 2114 op krauter, kräuter; Lexer op kruter (lat. herbarius).


CRUDER

noun

Modern lemma: kruier (porter)
noun/male From cruden; same as Dutch kruier
+- He who transports loads. especially with a handcart or pushcart. Usually called crode (crude-, kerde- ) wagencrudere in Middle Dutch. Same as crudewagenare (...)

Note
There's another cruder that could have existed in Middle Dutch, and it's derived from cruut (kruid, herb), in the sense of weeding, so weeder
(...)


http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...r=HTML&id=24188

Btw, Jan de Vries ((1971, Nederlands Etymologisch Woordenboek) and N.van Wijk ((1936 [1912]), Franck's Etymologisch woordenboek der Nederlandsche taal) mention the Frisian (fri.) "kroade", meaning "wheelbarrow" :

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/kruien

See also:
http://www.wnt.inl.n...db=WFT&id=54567

I'm not going to translate all that, but you'll see the word "kruiwagen", wheelbarrow.

The only related word in English is:

crowd (v.)
Old English crudan "to press, crush." Cognate with Middle Dutch cruden "to press, push," Middle High German kroten "to press, oppress," Norwegian kryda "to crowd."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

.
I see, thanks for all that. Carrier's wheel, yes. The etymology is not wheel or carrier but as carrier I guess he carries the wheel - basically the force behind the wheels (the heavens or zodiac) movement - the ' thing'  that turned it. It needs a carrier or pusher.

VERB:
tr.

  • To force by or as if by pressing or shoving:
http://education.yah...ary/entry/crowd

crowd - push - really the pusher, so yes, pusher of the cart, barrow, wagon, wheel, whatever. I can see that relative to pushing the barrow around the heavens.
shoving something along, force it, crud it - seems to me to be a very old form of a word. A crude form, funny enough. (From raw - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/crude )

Time is derived from the origin of Wralda and the wheel shape signifies it's eternal going around.

cruden: Kroder or Krodo as Saturn could work in the way of agriculture with those push words, barrows, carts, ploughs representing the same thing - agricultural fertility people.

Saturn always sounds like sa-turn to me, to turn/the turner (of the heavens) - therefore being able to represent a heaven turner like Krodo's name.

Edited by The Puzzler, 27 April 2013 - 08:25 AM.

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#3803    Knul

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 10:50 AM

It would be useful to translate this article: http://www.nederland...ST leidraad.pdf


#3804    Abramelin

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostKnul, on 27 April 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

It would be useful to translate this article: http://www.nederland...ST leidraad.pdf

That's a lot to translate. Maybe we can find a site in English? Some Asatru/Pagan site for instance?

Something else:

Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch (1959) Volume 1
Julius Pokorny
http://archive.org/d...sches01pokouoft

Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch (1959) Volume 2
Julius Pokorny
http://archive.org/d...sches02pokouoft

Indogermanisches etymologisches Wörterbuch (1959) Volume 3
Julius Pokorny
http://archive.org/d...sches03pokouoft


#3805    Abramelin

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

Have you all noticed that the Angelfire site I have linked to since eternity has been updated and that an intro (from 1988) has been added by a D. Zeinstra of the Provincial Library of Friesland? Plus a photo, some drawings (Hamconius) and a map? And one of the drawings is MY scan of a drawing I made from Overwijn's book! And watch the animation at the very end...and the link http://dewyche.webs.com/

Posted Image

OMG, did Tony Seale take over the site, or was it his in the first place?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 April 2013 - 08:39 PM.


#3806    Van Gorp

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostKnul, on 27 April 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

It would be useful to translate this article: http://www.nederland...ST leidraad.pdf

Testcase: Quick & Dirty automatic translation of last part below:
Do you think De Trippel Ommegang (Triple procession) can be of interest concerning "The 3 Jul wheels make up the Kroder"?



Triple procession
Before it can be a midwinter ritual performed to the place of
ritual acts (where the midwinter table match, and the place
the midwinter fire) holy (sacred to be) made​​. this can be
for example by a triple interaction, in which one right (
solar walk along) goes. To the table where going to be the sacrificial meal consumed
, this can be done with a smoking fagot. The place of
stake can handle three times with torches.
The consecration then takes place on three levels' s place:
- For dead ancestors, the community and the gods, or;
- The lowest position of the sun, the middle and the highest position of the sun.
By the sun going to walk it guarantees the divine order.
The triple procession is long remained preserved in folk customs. to
was in the last century at a funeral on the mound villages in Friesland, with the
bar three times clockwise to the graveyard run, before the dead to the earth
was ordered.




Concerning Abe's observation of the angelfire website: I once found for a short period the 'content' links at the right being altered and seeming linked to another site.
I don't remember exactly what site but it looked odd.


#3807    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:28 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 April 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

Have you all noticed that the Angelfire site I have linked to since eternity has been updated and that an intro (from 1988) has been added by a D. Zeinstra of the Provincial Library of Friesland? Plus a photo, some drawings (Hamconius) and a map? And one of the drawings is MY scan of a drawing I made from Overwijn's book! And watch the animation at the very end...and the link http://dewyche.webs.com/

Posted Image

OMG, did Tony Seale take over the site, or was it his in the first place?

.
hahaha maybe he did! I did notice all the changes as I use the angelfire OLB site. I haven't watched the link yet though.

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#3808    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

I was thinking more last night and thought that rather than the Sami people, the OLB might be talking about the people who Snorri mentions, as coming from ASALAND, a land in the East.

Why I think this now also is because of all the sacrifice and the taking of Woden's name by the Magi.

Uppsala was a place of sacrifice to Odin, who had come from Asaland, said Snorri.

The rituals they had must have been quite bloody when you sacrifice 72 people, horses, dogs etc for a week, 9 a day and hang them from trees in groves, reports of some of the sacrificial things going on were quite shocking.

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#3809    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 02:39 AM

He is also called Othinn, Wodan and Wotan. Some of the aliases he uses to travel icognito among mortals are Vak and Valtam. Wednesday is named after him (Wodan).
http://www.pantheon....les/o/odin.html

Wodan of the OLB is taken in by the Magi and made a God King, this fits imo that he gets transformed into Odin, a divine form of God/King of these sacrificial people. A God of war and death who had to SEEK his wisdom, he didn't have it, this could be allegorical for they took the knowledge from other people.

Odin as a son of Bor, is a son of a cow. " ra kys"

Another interesting thing from that page: He is called Alfadir, Allfather, for he is indeed father of the gods.

The OLB has a whole section on what an Alfather is:

LETTER OF RIKA THE OUDMAAGD, READ AT STAVEREN AT THE JUUL FEAST.



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#3810    The Puzzler

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

Sorry I forgot to give the appropriate link for the Allfeeder bit int he OLB: http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bk

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