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The History of Schizophrenia


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#331    Lava_Lady

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 01 May 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

The Truth about Schizophrenia


Schizophrenia is temporal punishment due to sin. Although, the Catholic Church views schizophrenia as the same mental illness described by psychiatry, they would have to discern whether a person is undergoing temporal punishment on an individual basis. I believe that schizophrenia is always temporal punishment and that the church has been misled by psychiatry.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church on temporal punishment is as follows:

Temporal punishment is purification of the unhealthy attachment to creatures, which is a consequence of sin that perdues even after death. We must be purified either during our earthly life through prayer and a conversion which comes from fervent charity (love for God & neighbor), or after death in purgatory.

Every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in a state called purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. This punishment must not be conceived as kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.

The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin still remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the "old man" and to put on the "new man".


This is the best material I can find for the Christian who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.


Therein lies the problem.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#332    scowl

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:47 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 01 May 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

I know many schizophrenics that swear that what they see and hear is real. Upon examination, most of these people would agree that it is mostly evil spirits.

WRONG WRONG WRONG! "Evil spirits" is a rare description of what schizophrenics claim these days. The most common delusion is being conspired against by family, friends or government. Other common claims these days are satellites beaming messages into their brains. Hallucinations of a religious nature is not common at all and is yet another reason why your theory is complete hogwash.

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings?

Quote

I've seen real pictures taken by a couple of diagnosed schizophrenics of the spirits they have seen. Clearly, it is not in their heads.

Dear, do you want us to search for "ghost pictures" on the Internet again?

Quote

On the other hand, there are those schizophrenics (I believe not having given it much thought themselves) that believe what the doctors tell them, that research implies that it is a brain disorder and that they believe none of it is real.

These are the people who get medication and most often return to functional if not normal lives.


#333    notforgotten

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:52 AM

View Postscowl, on 01 May 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

WRONG WRONG WRONG! "Evil spirits" is a rare description of what schizophrenics claim these days. I have many schizophrenic friends that would strongly disagree with this statement. The most common delusion is being conspired against by family, friends or government. Other common claims these days are satellites beaming messages into their brains.  Hallucinations of a religious nature is not common at all and is yet another reason why your theory is complete hogwash. You have not been listening to what I've been telling you all along. The devils lie to and deceive people causing psychosis and delusions of all kinds, yet none of it is an hallucination. The psychiatrist will tell you that they do not know what truly causes schizophrenia.

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings? Because one is being deceived by the devil and the other is not.



#334    notforgotten

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:57 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 30 April 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

22 pages...  22 pages people.  22 pages of the same answer to every question
If I gave you a different answer to the same question, then you would say that I'm contradicting myself.


#335    pallidin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:53 AM

Not to disregard what some have said here, but I have had a long term "laymans" interest in severe psychiatric disorders.

There are some fascinating real-life interviews with such people on Youtube, for example, produced by the "History Channel" and other somewhat acceptable authoritative sources.

In my viewings of those interviews, I must say that I saw zero "demonic influence" beyond their own mindset.

That is, no chairs were flying around, nor any levitations during the bizzare rants of those afflicted(that I saw)

It seemed to me to be a purely human, biological dysfunction on a very hard level of those afflicted that I saw, and nothing "abnormaly spiritual" per-se.

But that's just my take on the many vids I viewed.

So no, I would not take those suffering from such an illness to be providing humanity with any "enlightenment"

Edited by pallidin, 02 May 2013 - 02:55 AM.


#336    Lava_Lady

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:48 AM

View Postnotforgotten, on 02 May 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

If I gave you a different answer to the same question, then you would say that I'm contradicting myself.

Only if you actually were... and you did a few times but it doesn't matter.

The reality is you will never convince me your religious approach to the mental illness is accurate in any way and I will never get you to accept the modern day psychological approach to schizophrenia.

Of course we both have the right to believe what we want, evidence or not.

Do what you will, but harm none. - Wiccan creed

Let's just agree to disagree and amicably move on.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."  - F. Scott Fitzgerald


#337    Nathan DiYorio

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:02 AM

Even if schizophrenics are seeing demons, wouldn't medication that prevents them from being attacked by violent spirits be a good thing?

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#338    dundundun

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

notforgotten,

Ok, I think I need to be a little more specific. Lol

1. What are your friends' exact beliefs?
2. How many friends do you have who are Schizophrenic?
3. Do they all share the same specific beliefs?
4. Do they use recreational drugs? If so, which ones? If so, do they feel their beliefs are enhanced?
5. Are they currently taking medication?
6. Would you say their diet is poor, fair, or good?
7. Are they working? If so, does their work involve physical activity?

And I please note that when I say "beliefs" its in the same respect as that of religious beliefs.


#339    notforgotten

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:33 AM

View Postdundundun, on 02 May 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

notforgotten,

Ok, I think I need to be a little more specific. Lol

1. What are your friends' exact beliefs? Of all my friends that I have spoken to about it, most concur that it is not in their heads and is the devils, both human and demon alike.
2. How many friends do you have who are Schizophrenic? Over 3 dozen.
3. Do they all share the same specific beliefs? Of all the ones that I have spoke to, they share the same belief that it is real and the devil.
4. Do they use recreational drugs? . I believe that some still do. If so, which ones? I would rather not answer this question. If so, do they feel their beliefs are enhanced? I wouldn't no the answer to this question.
5. Are they currently taking medication? Most of them do not.
6. Would you say their diet is poor, fair, or good? I wouldn't have the answer to this question either. I would think that their diets could be improved on.
7. Are they working? If so, does their work involve physical activity? Most of them work and some of their work would involve physical activity.

And I please note that when I say "beliefs" its in the same respect as that of religious beliefs.
There are some drugs that are sins that will bring evil spirits into a persons life.

Edited by notforgotten, 03 May 2013 - 12:38 AM.


#340    scowl

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:48 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 02 May 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I have many schizophrenic friends that would strongly disagree with this statement.

Fine. Your schizophrenic friends are in a small minority in the schizophrenic community.

Quote

You have not been listening to what I've been telling you all along. The devils lie to and deceive people causing psychosis and delusions of all kinds, yet none of it is an hallucination.

So if a schizophrenic believes that the government is transmitting messages into their brain, then that must be a delusion because it's ridiculous.

However is a schizophrenic says they're being tormented by demonic spirits, then we must believe every word that they say.

Why? Because you say so! We're supposed to believe you're some kind of expert yet the only supporting evidence you've given for your theory is alleged pictures of ghosts you found on the Internet!

Quote

The psychiatrist will tell you that they do not know what truly causes schizophrenia.

Yes, because anyone who says they know what causes schizophrenia is a liar or an idiot. No one knows. Including you.

scowl said:

Here's another reason. By your criteria, these other claims must also be true, since schizophrenics are not hallucinating and are entirely reliable witnesses to what they are experiencing. Why should we believe the schizophrenic who claims to be tormented by invisible spirits, yet not believe the schizophrenic who claims to be hearing inter-dimensional beings speaking to him through his dental fillings?

Quote

Because one is being deceived by the devil and the other is not.

You don't know that. The person could be hearing inter-dimensional beings. That's no more ridiculous than the evil spirits and demonic possession explanation you've been trying to sell us.

We have no reason to believe anything you're saying. You have no evidence, just an unsupported theory which you repeat like a mindless robot.


#341    notforgotten

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:01 PM

I thought that I would lighten things up a bit:



Edited by notforgotten, 03 May 2013 - 08:06 PM.


#342    Setton

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:20 PM

View Postscowl, on 03 May 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

We have no reason to believe anything you're saying. You have no evidence, just an unsupported theory which you repeat like a mindless robot.

C'mon that's not entirely fair.

You're doing theories a disservice...

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
'No, murder is running your broadsword through someone because he worships a different God to you... Or is that evangelism? I get confused.'
When they discover the centre of the universe, a lot of people are going to be disappointed - They are not it.
I don't object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance.

#343    notforgotten

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:30 PM

Here is a personal and endearing song that Father God truly dedicated to me over the internet:



Edited by notforgotten, 03 May 2013 - 08:34 PM.


#344    notforgotten

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:16 PM

I'm sorry scowl, but I see you as being lost to the lies of this world.


#345    pallidin

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:28 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 03 May 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

I'm sorry scowl, but I see you as being lost to the lies of this world.

I would strongly disagree.

Not only have I, unfortunately, developed a severe anxiety disorder, I have had personal contact with those with much more dibilitating disorders, such a schizophrenia.

In no cases have I seen ANYTHING remotely approaching a paranormal event within them.

Not saying that there can't be, rather I have not ever, ever seen it either in personal contact or interview vids.

Edited by pallidin, 03 May 2013 - 10:29 PM.





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