83 replies to this topic

[Gummug]

Rlyeh, on 04 October 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Or this:

What an intelligent rebuttal...anything you disagree with, just call it stupid...works for most children, so I guess it should work for you too...

[Imaginarynumber1]

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I never doubted that viruses and bacteria can mutate, I'm satisfied that's scientific fact. I also believe in "microevolution", as some call it, which is actually imo variation within a species (all the different kind of dogs would be a good example, but they're all still dogs). To my knowledge, however, no species has ever "evolved" into another species.

There's your problem. You're not a trained biologist.

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

What an intelligent rebuttal...anything you disagree with, just call it stupid...works for most children, so I guess it should work for you too...

Creationism is stupid. It's akin to saying a giant gorilla vomited up the universe.

[Gummug]

Imaginarynumber1, on 05 October 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

There's some great stuff here: https://twitter.com/rickygervais



I personally don't believe in the number 4.

Anyone can believe anything he or she wants, more power to you, just everyone faces consequences ultimately for what they believe...or don't, I believe.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Anyone can believe anything he or she wants, more power to you, just everyone faces consequences ultimately for what they believe...or don't, I believe.

The distinction is that some things are factual. One's belief has nothing to do with them. If you want to ignore almost 200 years of biological sciences, go right ahead, but don't get upset when somebody calls you an idiot for doing so.

[Gummug]

Imaginarynumber1, on 08 October 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

There's your problem. You're not a trained biologist.

That's true, but can you show me even one intermediary species? I mean, one species evolving into another?

Quote

Creationism is stupid. It's akin to saying a giant gorilla vomited up the universe.

But it's intelligent to believe cells and proteins could assemble themselves into ever more complex organisms? Through random radiation driven mutations? OK...

[Gummug]

Imaginarynumber1, on 08 October 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

The distinction is that some things are factual. One's belief has nothing to do with them. If you want to ignore almost 200 years of biological sciences, go right ahead, but don't get upset when somebody calls you an idiot for doing so.

Well, if I'm an idiot I'm in pretty good company, including Isaac Newton and George Washington, among others, who believed the Bible.

[Bling]

Regardless of all our opinions, which I have enjoyed reading so thanks for joining in.......it's hate mail sent to an elderly man with a wealth of experience. And it's wrong wrong wrong.

[Gummug]

Bling, on 08 October 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Regardless of all our opinions, which I have enjoyed reading so thanks for joining in.......it's hate mail sent to an elderly man with a wealth of experience. And it's wrong wrong wrong.

That's right...I don't agree with him either, but whatever happened to amicably agreeing to disagree? It's almost like some people are, "my ideas are right and I'm God so if you disagree you are a *snip*" Good call

Edited by Gummug, 08 October 2012 - 07:21 PM.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

That's true, but can you show me even one intermediary species? I mean, one species evolving into another?

Yes. Everything that's ever lived.

Quote

But it's intelligent to believe cells and proteins could assemble themselves into ever more complex organisms? Through random radiation driven mutations? OK...

Yes. And through natural selection and genetic drift and isolated reproduction.
It's not my fault if you don't understand the science.

[Imaginarynumber1]

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Well, if I'm an idiot I'm in pretty good company, including Isaac Newton and George Washington, among others, who believed the Bible.

Yeah, people who weren't around for genetic sequencing or the wealth of sciences that have come along in 200 years.
If you're proud to be 200+ years out of date with science, well, then you have a host of other problems.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1, 08 October 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Bling]

I love the way some threads go off on tangents!

[Gummug]

Orcseeker, on 06 October 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

But there is observable evidence of micro evolution. Of course we can't apply the observation of macroevolution because we haven't even considered the aspect of evolution as widely for long at all! Regardless, from bones and skeletons found, it suggests that over time, skulls and bones did in fact change shape and size.

Is this not a clear indication of humanoid evolution at the very least? Why could it not have started even so with God creating microbes which then went on to become humans? Just because it does not conform to some book you dont even know who authored doesn't mean it couldn't have been a probable scenario.

The man in this video is avoiding a lot. He is subtlety trying to bring the audience over with mentions of intelligent people who are religious or who have "turned" to religion. No matter how intelligent you are, it does not dictate how susceptible you are to belief. Belief is possibly controlled by a part of the brain. So intelligence is in that case is not a factor.

Regardless how your brain is made up, you should try to consider all aspects and keep an open mind as nothing is definite. Which is why I like evolution, it is a theory, therefore it can be disputed and changed whereas what is in the bible, is in the bible.

Thanks Orcseeker for a very balanced and vitriol-free post. I think it is very interesting that you are saying belief and intelligence are not related (which I believe myself to a large extent), because so many here seem to think if you don't believe as they do you are stupid or an idiot, etc. etc., blah blah blah.
I do believe in "microevolution" although I wouldn't call it that.
In reference to another post, I don't know why God created (or maybe he didn't maybe the devil did) evil beasts like parasitic worms and deadly bacteria, etc., but obviously we do have them.
I agree one should always keep an open mind but also I think not compromise one's integrity.
To be honest, I think most people's beliefs, whether creationist or evolutionist, are based on emotional factors, and on what they want to believe and what they want to be true, than logical deductions and inductions. I think the deductions are usually more rationales than reasons. That's just my opinion though.

[Gummug]

Imaginarynumber1, on 08 October 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Yes. Everything that's ever lived.




Yes. And through natural selection and genetic drift and isolated reproduction.
It's not my fault if you don't understand the science.

Did you realize almost all, if not all, mutations are harmful? And genetic drift implies unguided...I still find this an unconvincing argument for greater complexity.

Imaginarynumber1, on 08 October 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Yeah, people who weren't around for genetic sequencing or the wealth of sciences that have come along in 200 years.
If you're proud to be 200+ years out of date with science, well, then you have a host of other problems.

OK, I should have mentioned Laurence Tisdall and Henry Morris. They're not 200+ that I know of.

Bling, on 08 October 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I love the way some threads go off on tangents!

You're right I think I'm going to quit here and go off to look for this subject in the...religion? philosophy? section.

[Alienated Being]

Gummug, on 08 October 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

That's true, but can you show me even one intermediary species? I mean, one species evolving into another?

Go and do the research yourself. I am growing tired of providing examples to people who do not go and carry out their own research. There is an insurmountable amount of evidence out there available to you, and it is just waiting for your brain to absorb it.

Quote

But it's intelligent to believe cells and proteins could assemble themselves into ever more complex organisms? Through random radiation driven mutations? OK...

And what else would you suggest? What's more of an intelligent belief than that? If it is so complex that it requires a creator, then just imagine the complexity that would be required to have developed the creator, and the technologies involved with creating the creator's product.

If something is created, it demands a creator.

Creationism is nothing but childish myth, in my honest opinion. "We can't explain how everything got here, so therefore... it must have been created. Why try to understand how everything works, when we just attribute everything that works to a creator, whom is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?".

It is that logic which has hindered our technological and scientific progress throughout history. If you had questioned anything that was the cultural norm, you were sentenced to death.

Edited by Alienated Being, 08 October 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[Gummug]

I admit a lot of "Christians" (and note I put it in quotes) have been very reactionary and a hindrance to technology. However, as far as the one point you made, I would say it's a good point except I believe God was not created or evolved...He has always been, is, and always will be, forever beyond our comprehension or even an attempt to begin to understand. I admit, that might seem like a stretch, but the only alternative that I can think of is that the current universe with all its mind boggling complexity (just a PSP is mind bogglingly complex to me) came about by a bunch of gases which came from who knows where and for some reason began to coalesce...or from a nearly infinite point of energy which rapidly expanded and coalesced into the universe. For me it is more intellectually honest to believe in a God who is forever beyond my comprehension than something which seems to me impossible...a bunch of gases or what not floating around and ultimately after eons organizing into almost unimaginable complexity. As far as finding the missing link, as it were, I don't think I'd even have to look...if it were found it would be on the front page of every major newspaper in the world, I should think.

Edited by Gummug, 08 October 2012 - 08:15 PM.