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Pascagoula case


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#106    psyche101

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:17 AM

View Postquillius, on 12 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:


glad you googled Murphy Givens.....it was certain you would end up on Luis site. I thought he done a fantastic job of laying it all out with some good additional bits of info for us.

anyhow, I may be out of action for 5-6 days so will jump back on this soon as I can.

for what its worth I dont think the article will give us much now that we can confirm that Joe carried out no investigative research himself, and also that the article was basically a 'comedy' piece which I cant really attack Joe for, seeing as he is not taking it seriously and that he makes this clear in the article.

Perhaps but thank you anyway mate, it was an excellent read I agree. I think it does indicate Joe's article to be of little worth to be frank. As you say, it seems more of a comedy piece that I think is laden with shock value. I think the best source on the net considering this case. That Spanish article I linked to show the ugly side of debunking. It's just a rant really. But rather than Given's. I think the gem here is William Mendez, definitely my next avenue of investigation.

I look forward to your return, timing is good, I am flat out too.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#107    psyche101

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:22 AM

View Postquillius, on 12 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

spinning puts a point through its paces and if its a strong valid point , then it should prevail......

:tu: Cheers mate, I am glad you mentioned it, nice to see the term in a different light.

View Postquillius, on 12 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

(I did find that link yesterday also but wasnt sure what it proved)

let me ask you this another way.

Can you have the title Major Colonel etc etc without being in the military?

To be honest in my mind this is a moot point to an extent. Maybe we should revisit it shuld it have some validity to any specific point. if you agree?

:innocent:

Posted Image

Do you feel a military Doctor is not a doctor? Or not bound by hippocratic oath? That link does qualify these people as physicians.

But yes, probably moot, it does not bother me if we drop it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#108    psyche101

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:30 AM

View PostMatt Vinyl, on 12 March 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Another excellent read and the jostling between Quillius and Psyche has been most enjoyable and informative. I (pardon the term!) swing both ways between you two from one post to the next - both viewpoints have almost equal 'fors' and 'againsts'. :)

With regards to this point raised by Psyche last year:



Is it possible that the object was of a shape that could look both 'cigar' and 'disk' dependant on the viewing angle? I suppose the best way I could explain this would be as an example: A car tyre - perfectly round from the side, but if viewed 'top down' it's almost rectangular. So dependant on the viewing angle there, an observer might see either a circle or a rectangle.

As always, appreciate the research that has been carried out and laid out clearly for me to enjoy here. :)

Gidday Matt

Thanks for the kind words, it truly is a pleasure to discuss any subject with Quillius. He is living proof that believers and skeptics can work together. I hold him in very high regard. Please feel free to chime in anytime mate.

That is a good call, I have asked the same question on other cases. With this one, we have this drawing:


Posted Image


Which does seem to indicate a saucer type craft, due to the flat bottom, I think it could be viewed as a sphere with some parallax error, but I do not think a cigar. Possible I grant. However if this link is accurate, it's an impossible craft, particularly with regards to interstellar travel. I do not even see how both men and all these aliens managed to fit in.

The ship half approximately three to four feet wide, three feet high and ten feet long.


LINK

That is just too small for both interstellar travel, or the described abduction experience. Perhaps it is a translation error?

Edited by psyche101, 13 March 2013 - 05:45 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#109    Matt Vinyl

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:38 PM

Cheers Psyche, keep up the good work. :-) Look forward to chiming in a lot more.

Going to re-read some of the supporting evidence on this one again now.

Edited by Matt Vinyl, 18 March 2013 - 09:40 PM.

And do you ever contradict yourself? Well, yes and no...

#110    psyche101

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:57 PM

View PostMatt Vinyl, on 18 March 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Cheers Psyche, keep up the good work. :-) Look forward to chiming in a lot more.

Going to re-read some of the supporting evidence on this one again now.

Gidday Matt

Looking forward to it mate. With all the looking around, Quillius prompted me to seek out this site, it is one of the most informative I have seen on the subject - LINK. I used Google translate, and it comes up quite well.

Cheers

Edited by psyche101, 18 March 2013 - 09:58 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#111    quillius

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:21 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 March 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

Perhaps but thank you anyway mate, it was an excellent read I agree. I think it does indicate Joe's article to be of little worth to be frank. As you say, it seems more of a comedy piece that I think is laden with shock value. I think the best source on the net considering this case. That Spanish article I linked to show the ugly side of debunking. It's just a rant really. But rather than Given's. I think the gem here is William Mendez, definitely my next avenue of investigation.

I look forward to your return, timing is good, I am flat out too.

Hey Psyche,

hope all is good!

http://www.theblackv...y_June_1984.pdf

read the last part of page 9 and first part of page 10 from the 'army' interogation. The main part I am looking at is to do with Mr Broadus who was one of the two witnesses along with Larry.

I started trying to look at their first hand descriptions along with those of Charles and Calvin.....I think your idea of looking into the craft as a starting point is a good idea, hence my looking into as many descriptions as possible (but trying to avoid all second hand ones to avoid the chinese whispers effect)

Question why did Broadus go to the police station?

looking into Mendez is also quite an important line of investigation, I agree that maybe we should spend some time on him too.


Shall we focus on the craft and craft alone for now then move onto Mendez?

(I am just glad Joe's out of the picture)

also have you ever seen Klass 19 page 'write up/debunk' on this case?


#112    quillius

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 13 March 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:




Which does seem to indicate a saucer type craft, due to the flat bottom, I think it could be viewed as a sphere with some parallax error, but I do not think a cigar. Possible I grant. However if this link is accurate, it's an impossible craft, particularly with regards to interstellar travel. I do not even see how both men and all these aliens managed to fit in.

The ship half approximately three to four feet wide, three feet high and ten feet long.


LINK

That is just too small for both interstellar travel, or the described abduction experience. Perhaps it is a translation error?

Hey Psyche,

yes I think translation problem.

We at least know that he described it as 8ft x 8ft x 8ft in the 'army' interogation (you know the one...with all those army people :) just teasing...)  anyhow, the 'beings were described as 5ft and the distance to craft was estimated at 35-40 yards.

There is an interesting part during that interogation where I think Hickson tries to convey that he thinks it was too small from the outside to reconcile his experience inside......will get back to you on this.


#113    psyche101

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:10 AM

View Postquillius, on 25 March 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Hey Psyche,

hope all is good!

http://www.theblackv...y_June_1984.pdf

read the last part of page 9 and first part of page 10 from the 'army' interogation. The main part I am looking at is to do with Mr Broadus who was one of the two witnesses along with Larry.

I started trying to look at their first hand descriptions along with those of Charles and Calvin.....I think your idea of looking into the craft as a starting point is a good idea, hence my looking into as many descriptions as possible (but trying to avoid all second hand ones to avoid the chinese whispers effect)

Question why did Broadus go to the police station?

looking into Mendez is also quite an important line of investigation, I agree that maybe we should spend some time on him too.


Shall we focus on the craft and craft alone for now then move onto Mendez?

(I am just glad Joe's out of the picture)

also have you ever seen Klass 19 page 'write up/debunk' on this case?

Gidday Mate

Broadus went to the police station, I assume because he was a detective? In fact, the parole officer in the list you provided. It seems quite a stretch to connect the two, as Broadus merely described a streak of light in the night sky.


As if that weren’t intriguing enough, former Pascagoula detective “Puddin” Broadus told Captain Ryder that me saw something streak through the air that same night. According Ryder, Broadus, who has since passed on, was an honest man not prone to flights of fancy: “Puddin’s dead now, but he was a fine man. He wouldn’t make up something like that.”


LINK

Yes, one thing at a time is good thinking, Mendez can wait a little, he I feel will be more convincing than the article by Joe. I find the craft very hard to reconcile at such a small size, and it does not seem to have flown.


Hickson: I couldn't see anything from inside of it. I don't know...
Derrington: Did it go straight up?
Parker: No sir. It just disappeared... "zzzp" and it just disappeared.
Hickson: And really, I don't know how it got there

It does not sound like a physical craft at all.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#114    psyche101

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:11 AM

View Postquillius, on 25 March 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Hey Psyche,

yes I think translation problem.

We at least know that he described it as 8ft x 8ft x 8ft in the 'army' interogation (you know the one...with all those army people :) just teasing...)  anyhow, the 'beings were described as 5ft and the distance to craft was estimated at 35-40 yards.

There is an interesting part during that interogation where I think Hickson tries to convey that he thinks it was too small from the outside to reconcile his experience inside......will get back to you on this.


Hey Mate

Even with he translation problem. that is still way too small.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#115    quillius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:39 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 March 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Gidday Mate

Broadus went to the police station, I assume because he was a detective? In fact, the parole officer in the list you provided. It seems quite a stretch to connect the two, as Broadus merely described a streak of light in the night sky.


As if that weren’t intriguing enough, former Pascagoula detective “Puddin” Broadus told Captain Ryder that me saw something streak through the air that same night. According Ryder, Broadus, who has since passed on, was an honest man not prone to flights of fancy: “Puddin’s dead now, but he was a fine man. He wouldn’t make up something like that.”


LINK

Yes, one thing at a time is good thinking, Mendez can wait a little, he I feel will be more convincing than the article by Joe. I find the craft very hard to reconcile at such a small size, and it does not seem to have flown.


Hickson: I couldn't see anything from inside of it. I don't know...
Derrington: Did it go straight up?
Parker: No sir. It just disappeared... "zzzp" and it just disappeared.
Hickson: And really, I don't know how it got there

It does not sound like a physical craft at all.

Hey Psyche,

ok, we can go back to Broadus and discuss when and why he was there at another time. It is stated in the report that he and Larry reported seeing an object glowing in the vicinity the men were fishing in. They also say they viewed the object for three minutes.

Huntley: and there description and everything. They even described the blue lights and everything.

hmmm, it would be good to see the statements of both Broadus and Larry. In addition the time at which they reported it.

Collingo asks who came and reported the 'glowing craft' first...was it the men or Broadus?
why is no one sure? at least this is how the conversation continues...with uncertainty.

Why did Broadus take away the tape recording? I mean if the men went in at around 10-11pm then what time did Broadus go in? how many copies were there?


anyways...back to the craft...for now


#116    quillius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 March 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:



Hickson: I couldn't see anything from inside of it. I don't know...
Derrington: Did it go straight up?
Parker: No sir. It just disappeared... "zzzp" and it just disappeared.
Hickson: And really, I don't know how it got there

It does not sound like a physical craft at all.

hmm why not?

there are plenty of descriptions throughout intiial interview and the army interogation. They describe the craft at various times including the perceived shape, the glow, the door/opening, the size.....

as for the comment above you highlighted about it disappearing....let me try this..

the car headed away from me at breakneck speed....then it just disappeared in the distance........ speed coupled with turn of phrase explain the word disappearing. Also Parker was facing the river apparently so not even sure he could have seen the craft on take off. If you remember Charlie says when he woke off the ground he could see Parker staring out into the River in a frozen like state/daze.


#117    psyche101

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

View Postquillius, on 26 March 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Hey Psyche,

ok, we can go back to Broadus and discuss when and why he was there at another time. It is stated in the report that he and Larry reported seeing an object glowing in the vicinity the men were fishing in. They also say they viewed the object for three minutes.

Huntley: and there description and everything. They even described the blue lights and everything.

hmmm, it would be good to see the statements of both Broadus and Larry. In addition the time at which they reported it.

Collingo asks who came and reported the 'glowing craft' first...was it the men or Broadus?
why is no one sure? at least this is how the conversation continues...with uncertainty.

Why did Broadus take away the tape recording? I mean if the men went in at around 10-11pm then what time did Broadus go in? how many copies were there?


anyways...back to the craft...for now


Gidday Mate


I really need to see the statement to comment further, because going by Collingo's statements they saw different things

Pascagoula detective “Puddin” Broadus told Captain Ryder that me saw something streak through the air that same night

But the men say it "disappeared" not few away:


Parker: No sir. It just disappeared... "zzzp" and it just disappeared.
Hickson: And really, I don't know how it got there

Nobody is sure how made the first report, because nobody in the room actually witnessed the call.


Huntley: No, you are talking about Larry. He owns a Standard station. Evidently — the chief passed this on to me this morning

I do not know if the Sheriff was ever asked more about it.

What is this about Broadus reporting a UFO in Gautier and how did the men know he had reported it?


Hickson: Yeah. Not too long ago in Gautier there was one of these.

But indeed the craft is not an Interstellar one. I cannot reconcile an 8 foot x 8 foot craft crossing space with several inhabitants, heck, how did they even fit the men in there with the "beings", the carrot heads and the men?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#118    psyche101

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:05 AM

View Postquillius, on 26 March 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

hmm why not?

there are plenty of descriptions throughout intiial interview and the army interogation. They describe the craft at various times including the perceived shape, the glow, the door/opening, the size.....

as for the comment above you highlighted about it disappearing....let me try this..

the car headed away from me at breakneck speed....then it just disappeared in the distance........ speed coupled with turn of phrase explain the word disappearing. Also Parker was facing the river apparently so not even sure he could have seen the craft on take off. If you remember Charlie says when he woke off the ground he could see Parker staring out into the River in a frozen like state/daze.


Then would they not say "when we came to, it was gone"? I think "disappear" is pretty descriptive? And if Broadus could see it fly, surely these men could not be confused with extreme speed?

But why I was saying "not a physical craft" is not only the disappearing act, but the fact it is simply too small. This might be better explained as some sort of portal if the ET strain is to be continued?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#119    quillius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:19 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Gidday Mate


I really need to see the statement to comment further, because going by Collingo's statements they saw different things

Pascagoula detective “Puddin” Broadus told Captain Ryder that me saw something streak through the air that same night

But the men say it "disappeared" not few away:


Parker: No sir. It just disappeared... "zzzp" and it just disappeared.
Hickson: And really, I don't know how it got there

Nobody is sure how made the first report, because nobody in the room actually witnessed the call.


Huntley: No, you are talking about Larry. He owns a Standard station. Evidently — the chief passed this on to me this morning

I do not know if the Sheriff was ever asked more about it.

What is this about Broadus reporting a UFO in Gautier and how did the men know he had reported it?


Hickson: Yeah. Not too long ago in Gautier there was one of these.

But indeed the craft is not an Interstellar one. I cannot reconcile an 8 foot x 8 foot craft crossing space with several inhabitants, heck, how did they even fit the men in there with the "beings", the carrot heads and the men?

Broadus didnt report a UFO in Gaultier? and where does it say the men knew Broadus had reported such?

Hicksons words above just mention there was 'one of these' in Gaultier??

I will go through all firsthand accounts reports etc and try and detail everything we have on the craft and descriptions.

And I will come back to Broadus, if thats ok....when time is short I struggle to go in too many different directions....

Will try and post the descriptions later today.

:tu:


#120    quillius

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:23 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 26 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Then would they not say "when we came to, it was gone"? I think "disappear" is pretty descriptive? And if Broadus could see it fly, surely these men could not be confused with extreme speed?

But why I was saying "not a physical craft" is not only the disappearing act, but the fact it is simply too small. This might be better explained as some sort of portal if the ET strain is to be continued?


and as per my example of 'disappearing car' is this not also pretty descriptive? I assure you I wasnt suggesting the car vanished into thin air. :)  The size is debatable IMO.

If the men were slightly out with both distance and size by say 4-5 ft then this works. If the craft is a type of drone...or research craft from a mothership then again this works...but you know I am not a fan of invoking such theories and would rather stick with what we have.

The craft size is not a factor for me, but I know its a big sticking point for you.





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