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Obamacare average $20K per family!


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#16    F3SS

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

View PostStellar, on 02 February 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:



If I had a dollar for every time I heard this.

Do something about it then (and no, I'm not talking about taking a gun and shooting up the government).
Like what? Vote for the guy who promised hope, change, transparency and affordable healthcare? Hope is subjective. Change in itself is vague. Transparency certainly never happened especially concerning a bill that's going to crush the middle class yet was sold as the complete opposite. The people who voted for this were duped. People like me on the other hand did try to do something about it. We didn't vote for it.
So what else can we do? Complain? You don't like that apparently. Vote? We tried that. I don't think there's much we can do except get the entire country on board with telling him and the IRS to shove it up their ass and we aren't paying. Other than that, what's your suggestion?

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#17    Stardrive

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:05 PM

Damnstraight I'm not paying. It came down to who wanted ObamaCare and who didn't. Those that did, outvoted those who didn't. Those that did need to realize they were duped into voting for the creation of a new money racket for the health insurance industry. Emperor Obama claimed it would bring the cost of health insurance down. This will not be the case. Doctors will quit the practice, you wait and see. This is something I do not want,  do not need nor voted for.

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#18    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:41 PM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 02 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

A nice sized family with a decent income. $120k gross minus taxes puts them around $85-$90k take home pay minus $20k to Obamas dream leaves them at $65-$70k left. Wow, talk about inhibiting success. An automatic $50k goes right to the government not to mention sales taxes, gas taxes, all the taxes associated with monthly bills.

It sounded too crazy, which is why I went directly to the Obamacare facts  website   http://obamacarefact...f-obamacare.php
They have their Obamacare calculator, you can see that as you scroll down to - Obamacare cost calculator

I put in $120,000 as an income for a family of 4..and it gave me - http://healthreform....lculator.aspx   Anyone can use that and enter their own income per year and see what it tells you

I know not every working American family will be earning $120,000 per year, but I entered that due to the fact you mentioned it as an example..  I saw a completely different cost.. BUT  if they are changing it in a few years, to a much higher cost,  I would like to see facts on that.. Something official from the government itself..I am not arguing you are wrong, I just feel it sounds too crazy to be true...I am hooping it is wrong, because I would think doing that is absolutely disgusting...I have seen people in the UK and Ireland crack up and go nuts at their government if anything like this ever came out.... So I would think that CNN and other news stations would be reporting something about it soon  or already have?  

A lot of families barely earn  $20K a year...Something about this story doesn't add up... If I am wrong  ( and that could be the case ) I would rather see something from the government to show me facts ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 02 February 2013 - 07:48 PM.

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#19    AsteroidX

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:00 PM

At an income level of 20k using the same calculator in a household of 1 I came up with 25% of income number or 5400$. With tax time deductions (mind you obamacare will be a monthly expense with a yearly tax deduction). My yearly deduction will be 4,381. My understanding is my monthly income will drop 25% per month in these plan.

Now normally a person making 20k a year pays no taxes and if they file correctly the govnmnt will reimburse part of the tax has been removed from there paycheck. Basically making it a sum 0 gum for the ultra poor.

Now is what comes to question is the deductible a reimbursable tax. As in will the government give me back that 4381 dollars at the end of the year ? Or will it be a tax deduction meaning my taxable income is reduced by that much. Its tax law and Im not gonna drive myself figuring out which way they set it up but unless Im getting that check at the end of the year Ive been paying anywhere from 5% of my income to over 50% of my income depending on my tax burden.

I would certainly claim 12 the entire year if I was not getting reimbursement for the deduction.

This does not take into certain extra fees associated with the premiums such as do you smoke, are ypou obese etc that will again increase that base number.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Running it through at the 120,000 number (an income level that is not absurd in big cities like LA or NY and would be a cost of living for those cities and not excessive)

I get the same 5400 yearly premium with no opportunity for a tax deduction as my income level has exceeded the tax deduction threshold. So a person making 120,000 a year already pays 40% on there income if single. So thats reduced to 80k off the bat initially. Then another 6k for the healthcare plan (if the dont smoke are not obese) and your down to 64k a year. Nearly 50% of the income in a large city where the average rent can be 2400-3600 a month.


That was by putting the same numbers in Becky Ill have to look at the calculator a bit more closely because it pumped out the same Healthcare tax burder for 2 different incomes. Besically that would be a flat tax which we know its not.


#20    AsteroidX

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:08 PM

There is also different kind of plans bronze,silver,gold, and platinum. The one I used (default) was silver.  One other little known is there is a 3 to 1 limit meaning in family plans it is capped at 3 children per adult so a single mother of 4 would have to buy an additional policy for the 4th child.

Moreso then the actual outrageous pricetag of the original insurance is the other fees that are appearing up that will impact so many Americans. Thus driving these numbers up higher in an individual case by case situation. It is harder to be heard when your gripe about the cost is unique to you and doesnt include every bloody American.

It has sham written all over it. Take money out of my check monthly. (which btw the government is infamous for dipping into for other expenditures) and hope Ill get a return on my investment at the end of the year.

'For me being 40 years old my total health care costs run me about 1k a year. op Im certainly not falling for this fuzzy math.

Edited by AsteroidX, 02 February 2013 - 08:10 PM.


#21    AsteroidX

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:19 PM

Example of Insurance already taking advantage of loopholes to increase rates

Quote


Yes those are initial numbers for early participation

Quote

by 2017, individual premiums in Ohio will increase by as much as 85 percent

http://www.forbes.co...miums-by-55-85/

funny because it wasnt suppose toi be a tax

Quote

4.  IRS penalties and interest on unpaid mandate taxes.  Because the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate penalty is a tax, the IRS will be able to assess interest and non-criminal penalties on those families who will not or cannot pay the tax. The IRS will issue regular, periodic correspondence audits to these families to help them comply with their filing responsibilities.


Read more: http://atr.org/irs-t...4#ixzz2Jm65uEbw
Follow us: @taxreformer on Twitter



There really is no government page to determine the actual cost yet as since it wont hit till 2014 tax season we dont even have basic numbers just glimses at the actual cost. I looked to and could only find a propaganda Obama page.

http://obamacarefact...f-obamacare.php


#22    Babe Ruth

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:20 PM

I meant to end my last post with "at the people's expense", but forgot. :whistle:

The insurance companies increase their profits, and the people end up paying for it.


#23    AsteroidX

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

An article from Factcheck regarding the penalty for not paying for health care coverage. It also states the cost of buying insurance is still unknown but gives a range from 4500-9000$ per year. The penalty maxes at 2500$ in 2016. They will use the IRS to collect this tax penalty. I feel sorry for tax payers.

http://www.factcheck...-obamacare-tax/

So Becky your comment about the number changing as we advance in years is correct.

Edited by AsteroidX, 02 February 2013 - 08:51 PM.


#24    White Unicorn

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:54 PM

I suspect Mickey Mousing of figures to IRS by corporations for health care costs where did it really go?

Example one pays for their health insurance pre tax it shows about $2000 for a year. Employer shows they paid -0- toward health premiums and benefits on your benefits statements, HR says they don't pay insurance but company provides you with lower costs by being group insurance and those costs depend on your usage.

Later you get W-2 required by health care reform that shows corporation paid $10,500 including your contribution pre tax.  You ask HR what $8,500 did company pay. That's part of drug costs and your usage.  You say, I stopped going to doctors and did not claim any drugs last year, how do you explain that?  Put on hold to superviser....That's for our wellness program you could use it you want. You say, oh that 800 number you can call if you need employee counseling? Yes.

An 800# for a link to non profit and government sponsored programs that dollar figure sure doesn't ring true especially if you don't use it!  HR ..The cost is equally divided between all employees don't worry about it since it's not taxable as income to you. You ask why they didn't disclose that to you for prior years when you did have claims and the same plan in place. HR says this is the first year transparency is required by the new health care reform.

It's going to take a while before everyone can see what the fortune 500 companies are really doing with benefits and retirement plans!

Edited by White Unicorn, 02 February 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#25    Travelling Man

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

Already there are many employers that are cutting hours to ensure that workers don't go over 32 hours per week and mandate health coverage by the employer. There are other employers that are incorporating each of their franchise locations so they won't fall under the "50 employee" rule. Sure, the COMPANY has 5000 locations - but each LOCATION only has 40 employees...

This is nearly unenforceable.

Wal*Mart knew this - and that's why they stumped so hard to get it passed. They've already slashed hours and hired a bunch of new folks to cover the "lost" hours. They can afford to do this.

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#26    AsteroidX

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

It begs the question. What are we the average American gonna do about this ?


#27    Startraveler

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 02 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Now is what comes to question is the deductible a reimbursable tax. As in will the government give me back that 4381 dollars at the end of the year ? Or will it be a tax deduction meaning my taxable income is reduced by that much. Its tax law and Im not gonna drive myself figuring out which way they set it up but unless Im getting that check at the end of the year Ive been paying anywhere from 5% of my income to over 50% of my income depending on my tax burden.

I would certainly claim 12 the entire year if I was not getting reimbursement for the deduction.

It sounds like you're asking if the premium tax credit is refundable. Yes, you'll get that financial assistance even if your tax burden is, or gets reduced to, zero. More importantly, it's advanceable, meaning you don't have to wait until the end of the year or tax time to claim it, you'll get it upfront when you go to buy insurance.

So if you didn't have an insurance plan through your job, you would log into your state exchange's website and start shopping. Once you're done comparing insurers, and benefits, and plans, etc you'll go to buy and when you do it will calculate your contribution--subtracting out the share covered by the federal tax credit--and charge you that; the remainder (i.e. the value of your premium tax credit) will be paid to the insurance company by the government.

View PostAsteroidX, on 02 February 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

There is also different kind of plans bronze,silver,gold, and platinum. The one I used (default) was silver.  One other little known is there is a 3 to 1 limit meaning in family plans it is capped at 3 children per adult so a single mother of 4 would have to buy an additional policy for the 4th child.

The value of the premium tax credit is set by the costs of a particular silver plan in the market. In other words, if you're eligible for that subsidy, it's value doesn't change based on the plan you ultimately choose in the marketplace. You can choose to buy a more expensive silver plan than the default, or even a gold or platinum plan, and you'll have to pay a larger share of its cost.

Alternatively, you could buy a cheaper bronze plan and find that your contribution is less because the premium tax credit covers more of the plan's costs.

Anyway, I think you're misinterpreting something you heard about the 3:1 bit.


#28    Gromdor

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:45 PM

Well, from what everyone is saying in these posts, people are planning on not having insurance and paying the fine.  Not much of a step-up from before where people didn't have insurance and didn't pay a fine.
I see three possible futures. 1) Obamacare magically works and the problems are solved.
2) Obamacare fails and we go to socialized medicine.
3) Obamacare fails and we say screw it and let free market and social darwinism kick in.  Suspend the hippocratic oath and refuse to treat patients without insurance or cash.

All of these options have their negatives of course.


#29    F3SS

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 01:47 AM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 02 February 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

It sounded too crazy, which is why I went directly to the Obamacare facts  website   http://obamacarefact...f-obamacare.php
They have their Obamacare calculator, you can see that as you scroll down to - Obamacare cost calculator

I put in $120,000 as an income for a family of 4..and it gave me - http://healthreform....lculator.aspx   Anyone can use that and enter their own income per year and see what it tells you

I know not every working American family will be earning $120,000 per year, but I entered that due to the fact you mentioned it as an example..  I saw a completely different cost.. BUT  if they are changing it in a few years, to a much higher cost,  I would like to see facts on that.. Something official from the government itself..I am not arguing you are wrong, I just feel it sounds too crazy to be true...I am hooping it is wrong, because I would think doing that is absolutely disgusting...I have seen people in the UK and Ireland crack up and go nuts at their government if anything like this ever came out.... So I would think that CNN and other news stations would be reporting something about it soon  or already have?  

A lot of families barely earn  $20K a year...Something about this story doesn't add up... If I am wrong  ( and that could be the case ) I would rather see something from the government to show me facts ..
Hi BM, I see you're questioning my words and the story. The thing is I'm not just taking an articles word for it. This is an example right out of the IRS handbook as per the end of the OP. Obamacarefact.com looks no less than biased. Dispelling the Myths, ha. Isn't it a shame there are more myths than facts known to most people? And the calculator? Seems ok but what the hell does the Kaiser Family Foundation know that the IRS doesn't? The IRS is going to be making the calls, not the Kaiser Family.

You know what I think BM? You should prepare to be disgusted.

I came up with about $13,900 using those specs and the calculator. Multiply that by 18 years. $250,200 of your hard earned money going right into the government abyss.

And if Asteroid is right about the 3:1 kid thing, which I hope he isn't, then you can rest uneasy knowing that Obamacare is undoubtedly suggesting to you not to have more than 3 kids if you can't afford it. While I don't necessarily disagree with that I do disagree that it is the governments place to put a price on such a decision.

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#30    ninjadude

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:13 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 03 February 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

I came up with about $13,900 using those specs and the calculator. Multiply that by 18 years. $250,200 of your hard earned money going right into the government abyss.

Obamacare is not government healthcare so it's not going to the government. It's going to insurance companies. Those who have been getting insurance thru their employers have been paying this for a long time. What do you think insurance is for?

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