Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Origin of Writing

geometrical astronomical early writing paleolithic incised lines

  • Please log in to reply
91 replies to this topic

#1    EnigmaticLines

EnigmaticLines

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Joined:01 Nov 2013

Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:24 AM

Just wondering if anyone is interested in discussing the origin of writing.

It appears that many ancient paleolithic stones etched with linear patterns can be considered "writing" as the lines draw very specific astronomical values

http://www.midnights...thic-era-bones/

Below is a link to a study of early Chinese text

http://www.midnights...pse_prediction/

and this is a link to a study of cuneiform

http://www.midnights...ictish-writing/


#2    Sir Wearer of Hats

Sir Wearer of Hats

    Is not a number!

  • Member
  • 9,771 posts
  • Joined:08 Nov 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queensland, Australia.

Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:31 AM

I've always thought it came out of the very early trade systems and mathematics.
Basically, you go from having "IIIII" to mean "Five Things" to "OOOOO" to mean "five oranges" rather then ""JJJJJ" to mean "Five Bananas", giving us "O" for "Orange" and "J" for banana if you will. You're not jsut counting "things" but counting and grouping specific things.


#3    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    Lector Historiae

  • Member
  • 8,755 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:55 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 11 November 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

I've always thought it came out of the very early trade systems and mathematics.
Basically, you go from having "IIIII" to mean "Five Things" to "OOOOO" to mean "five oranges" rather then ""JJJJJ" to mean "Five Bananas", giving us "O" for "Orange" and "J" for banana if you will. You're not jsut counting "things" but counting and grouping specific things.

Yeah, it's no coincidence writing evolves just after the rise of agriculture and the concomitant expansion of trade. In any case, depsite Line's but of pseudo-history hooey, there's not an iota of evidence linking ogham and anything written in Sumerian cuneiform.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#4    The_Spartan

The_Spartan

    Spartan Forever!!!!

  • Member
  • 3,705 posts
  • Joined:31 Mar 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Abu Dhabi, UAE

  • Gravity is Arbitrary!!

Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:14 AM

Barry Fell would have loved those links.

"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

Follow my stupid posts on Tumblr at Azrael's Ramblings

#5    Piney

Piney

    Educated Redskin

  • Member
  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hopewell, New Jersey

  • Redbonz Stumpjumper from the swamps of Shamong

Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 11 November 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Barry Fell would have loved those links.


   As with everyone else who thinks "mass comparison" is a real research method...........

Token Nanticoke
http://woodlandindia...orums/index.php
It takes a certain amount of sophistication to live primitive. Stupid people usually don't survive...............

"There aren't any Indians in New Jersey. Just some inbred ******* that live in the woods."

-Donald Trump

#6    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,116 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

`I must agree with Jay, writing is a byproduct of commerce,not a byproduct of mumbo-jumbo transmitted by oral tradition.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#7    anubisptah

anubisptah

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:05 PM

jaylemurph


Posted Yesterday, 08:55 PM


Posted ImageSir Wearer of Hats, on 10 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:


I've always thought it came out of the very early trade systems and mathematics.
Basically, you go from having "IIIII" to mean "Five Things" to "OOOOO" to mean "five oranges" rather then ""JJJJJ" to mean "Five Bananas", giving us "O" for "Orange" and "J" for banana if you will. You're not jsut counting "things" but counting and grouping specific things.

Yeah, it's no coincidence writing evolves just after the rise of agriculture and the concomitant expansion of trade. In any case, depsite Line's but of p...


I dont know about that one.

http://www.newscient...-eggshells.html

The Seeker

#8    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    Lector Historiae

  • Member
  • 8,755 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:49 PM

View Postanubisptah, on 11 November 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

jaylemurph


Posted Yesterday, 08:55 PM

Posted ImageSir Wearer of Hats, on 10 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

I've always thought it came out of the very early trade systems and mathematics.
Basically, you go from having "IIIII" to mean "Five Things" to "OOOOO" to mean "five oranges" rather then ""JJJJJ" to mean "Five Bananas", giving us "O" for "Orange" and "J" for banana if you will. You're not jsut counting "things" but counting and grouping specific things.

Yeah, it's no coincidence writing evolves just after the rise of agriculture and the concomitant expansion of trade. In any case, depsite Line's but of p...


I dont know about that one.

http://www.newscient...-eggshells.html


I'm not argiung there wasn't a long run-up to formal writing through an evolving proto-writing, but it's pretty clear that trade was the spark that fuelled the explosion of writing in its complete, advanced form.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph, 11 November 2013 - 10:49 PM.

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#9    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,089 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 11 November 2013 - 11:56 PM

View PostEnigmaticLines, on 11 November 2013 - 04:24 AM, said:

Just wondering if anyone is interested in discussing the origin of writing.

It appears that many ancient paleolithic stones etched with linear patterns can be considered "writing" as the lines draw very specific astronomical values

http://www.midnights...thic-era-bones/

Below is a link to a study of early Chinese text

http://www.midnights...pse_prediction/

and this is a link to a study of cuneiform

http://www.midnights...ictish-writing/

QUOTE:


I have always been fascinated by the possibility of really ancient writing, if that's what the next really is:

Posted Image

Words or numbers?

These painted pebbles from Mas d'Azil are typical of an art form known from south-western and southern France, the Pyrenees and southern Italy. Their excavator, Edouard Piette, first identified such pieces in 1889. They date from a phase at the very end of the last Ice Age called the Azilian, between 12,000 and 10,000 years ago.

Azilian pebbles are simply coloured and/or decorated with paint made from red ochre (iron peroxide). It was probably most often applied from the artist's fingers. The decorations include the dots, borders and bands of colour seen here, as well as zig-zags, ovals and dashes. About 1400 pebbles like these were found at Mas d'Azil. Their excavation proved that paint could survive in the ground for thousands of years. They also helped to end doubts that the first paintings discovered on the walls of caves such as Altamira really were the work of even earlier Stone Age artists.


Piette suggested that the painted motifs may be signs representing words or numbers, as in writing. Recent research suggests that the marks may not be random. The signs represented only occur in 41 of a possible 246 combinations. This might suggest that their arrangement represented words or numbers.


http://www.britishmu...ed_pebbles.aspx

=


Paul G. Bahn M.A., Ph.D. and Claude Couraud

Available online 26 August 2004.

Abstract
The end of the Ice Age (c. 9–8000 BC) in the French Pyrenees and other European areas is characterised by, among other things, the production of enigmatically decorated pebbles. Many theories concerning their function have been put forward. A recent analysis indicates that the decoration is non-random, and may represent some sort of notation.


http://www.sciencedi...160932784900784

http://www.unexplain...05#entry4004487

Edited by Abramelin, 11 November 2013 - 11:59 PM.


#10    anubisptah

anubisptah

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:54 AM

View Postjaylemurph, on 11 November 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

I'm not argiung there wasn't a long run-up to formal writing through an evolving proto-writing, but it's pretty clear that trade was the spark that fuelled the explosion of writing in its complete, advanced form.

--Jaylemurph

Not mentioning the language barrier that they had to cross in order to be able to keep books right on both sides heh.

The Seeker

#11    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,089 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:"Here the tide is ruled, by the wind, the moon and us."

  • God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands

Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:58 AM

View Postanubisptah, on 12 November 2013 - 12:54 AM, said:

Not mentioning the language barrier that they had to cross in order to be able to keep books right on both sides heh.

Traders never really had a problem with foreign language.

You want to earn money in a foreign country? You'll have to learn the language, or your competitor will before you do.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 12 November 2013 - 01:06 AM.


#12    anubisptah

anubisptah

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

Yep also the adapting between languages made other languages :)

The Seeker

#13    jaylemurph

jaylemurph

    Lector Historiae

  • Member
  • 8,755 posts
  • Joined:02 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Seattle, WA

  • "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make him think." Dorothy Parker

Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:06 AM

View Postanubisptah, on 12 November 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Yep also the adapting between languages made other languages :)

Not so much. It might account for some loan words shared between the languages, but the sound changes that constitute real change in language aren't typically triggered by the process of shared vocabulary: Latin didn't become French because it borrowed a few words from Gallic or Celtic, but it did when the Latin case system collapsed.

--Jaylemurph

"... amongst the most obstinate of our opinions may be classed those which derive from discussions in which we affect to search for the truth, while in reality we are only fortifying prejudice."     -- James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder

Posted Image

Deeply venial

#14    Kahn

Kahn

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 467 posts
  • Joined:29 Apr 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Abingdon, MD

  • Ignorance is no substitute for intelligence.

Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:08 AM

In response to post #9

Money?  Seems logical.


#15    Orcseeker

Orcseeker

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,719 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:09 AM

Hmm I'm also thinking a possibility as to how art was used to detail events and stories through cave painting. Perhaps they conceptualised the storytelling through a different means. Even without trade and such, I don't see the possibility of even communication through written symbols at the least to be completely impossible.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users